26TrapDraw Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 If true I would obviously welcome Watkins, but I'll also go on record against this deal because giving up a 2nd Round pick in this Draft is dumb, stupid, ill-advised, and...did I say dumb yet? The deepest Draft in recent memory and we are going to give up #41? Ugh...I HATE that idea...Hate, hate, hate it... This
Canadian Bills Fan Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 we don't need a TE at #9. I think we do. A TE with the size and speed of Ebron can open up the running game, spread out the defense, and create softer coverage for our receivers. CBF
Kirby Jackson Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 (edited) If not here I'm not sure where. Young qb that could use a weapon to go with what appear to be reliable role players.... I don't know if Watkins is an aj green impact but if you knew he was I'd sign up for this trade 100% - a lot of people that have seen more of him and are wiser than I think he's special, so I'm interested His college coach said that whoever passes on him will regret it like those that passed on Michael Jordan (sorry Portland). I wouldn't go that far and obviously he is biased but still... I think that the Bills have a lot of really good players but only a few that are elite at their position (Mario, maybe Dareus will be, maybe CJ despite his inconsistency and I think that Aaron Williams and Cordy Glenn could be). With that being said Watkins would fall in that group with Aaron Williams and Cordy Glenn I think. A really good player early (I know Williams struggled before last year) that within a couple of years is one of the best in the league at his position. Edited May 1, 2014 by Kirby Jackson
RuntheDamnBall Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 OK, people (Cosell & others) think that he's the best WR since the 2011 draft. That encompasses two whole drafts. Is that a lot? WRs make highlight reel plays. Jones has averaged 5 receptions per game played (8.4 targets/game). Green has averaged 5.5 receptions per game played (9.8 targets/game). How many playoff wins has Green carried his team to in 3 seasons (he averaged 4.3 catches in those playoff games)? How many playoff wins has Jones carried his team to in 3 seasons (he averaged 8 receptions in those games)? Are the zero playoff wins by Green and one playoff win by Jones a result of poor play on their part? Assessing Green's contributions based on playoff wins alone is pure folly. they wouldn't be in the playoffs without AJ Green. Now if you want to argue that they haven't got the most important position in the field sorted out, you might be right. Andy Dalton might be a quarterback who can get you to the playoffs but cannot win one for you. If we want to go back to quarterback argument let's stop right there and remember that Dalton was coming into an entrenched system with Marvin Lewis and was drafted around the same time is AJ Green. So they giving him enough time at this point to see if he is worth continuing to build with. Green, along with the depth and stability the Bengals already had, helped produce playoff teams in a division that also features the Steelers and the Ravens.
YoloinOhio Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 (edited) I think we do. A TE with the size and speed of Ebron can open up the running game, spread out the defense, and create softer coverage for our receivers. CBF I have come around to the fact that in my heart of hearts, I will be dissapointed if we don't get either Evans or Ebron. IMO these are two players where we truly have nothing like them on this team, they are so young that while they are already considered elite they will just keep getting better. Watkins could be another Larry Fitzgerald and don't get me wrong I would be thrilled to have him. For this year - I feel like Evans or Ebron put the Bills offense on another level for teams to game plan against and defend. We already have a lot of speed and can run screens with CJ and Goodwin. We have very good WRs of Watkins size. I know Watkins is better than all the WRs we have but I can't stop thinking about how the missing piece is the 6'4 or 6'5 target for EJ. Both seem like they would be very difficult for a defense to defend while also worrying about our other weapons. Either they will score or they will open up the offense for the others. Oh, and it makes me ill to think about giving up picks in this draft. Edited May 1, 2014 by YoloinOhio
machine gun kelly Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 The only one worth giving up picks is Clowney. He would be a huge difference maker in the defense. It would be pronounced. Now if Houston really picks Manzel, then we might be able to work a deal for Clowney at #2. Otherwise, you stay where we are or trade down and get another 2nd rounder. That would be nice and just load up on the already discussed, WR, RT, TE, and so on. I don't see Watkins as such a difference maker to warrant giving up picks. Don't get me wrong. He is a heck of a player, but not such a difference maker that we give away picks in a deep draft.
thewildrabbit Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 I agree by the time Kolb was injured, there weren't good choices I disagree it's not reasonable to ....maybe not *blame* the Bills exactly, but give them accountability. By the time the Bills signed him, Kolb had a significant track record of injury. I can see why they were intrigued with his potential, but with the injury history, losing him was what statisticians call a "reasonably predictable outcome". If they really felt they had room for only 3 QB, I don't understand what they see in Tuel, an UDFA who does not have a great portfolio. Why not hang onto TJax, who has shown he can play in the NFL and is tougher than nails - played a season respectably with a torn pec? Sorry, the Bills don't get a pass on that one. I don't get why so many fans want to defend the stupid decisions this team makes that eventually costs them games. Beerball, I don't think that you can judge how good a player is by his playoff record. How many playoff wins does Calvin Johnson have? He is still a great player. There aren't 10 receivers in the world with better skills than Watkins. That doesn't mean that he will immediately be 1 of the 10 best receivers in the league but he could be in the next few years. He is elite after the catch, has great hands and is a good route runner. That is why there is talk about trading up for him even with other good receivers. There are a lot of guys that could be Robert Woods types (good number 2 or low end #1's) but not many that can be franchise players. Let's not forget we are talking about a college player who still needs to prove he can get it done as a professional. Watkins only played three years, and I look at the kids 2012 season with some questions about a drug arrest, and a two game suspension. Which player will he be once he gets paid?
Smoke-E Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 For what it's worth - a friend was talking with the Clemson WR coach, Watkins told the coach that Doug Whaley told him the Bills are going to move up to get him.
Wayne Cubed Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 For what it's worth - a friend was talking with the Clemson WR coach, Watkins told the coach that Doug Whaley told him the Bills are going to move up to get him. Thats a pretty long Chinese whisper: Watkins says that Doug Whaley says that they are going to move up to get him and then he tells the WR coach at Clemson, who then tells your friend, who then tells you. Not saying it didn't happen, but thats a long string.
BUFFALOTONE Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 Um.... Why would the Browns want SJ when they could just draft Watkins for less than half his salary? CBF exactly right!! makes 0 sense.
Beerball Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 OK, all y'all have convinced me. No to Watkins. Move up to 6 and grab Evans or stay put and grab an OT/TE/WR at 9. Then, if OT in the first get a receiving option in the second. Good plan, thanks all!!!!!!!
BUFFALOTONE Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 Just to throw my hat in the ring...not saying you haven't heard what you say; just saying I've heard different... share with the group..
Kirby Jackson Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 Let's not forget we are talking about a college player who still needs to prove he can get it done as a professional. Watkins only played three years, and I look at the kids 2012 season with some questions about a drug arrest, and a two game suspension. Which player will he be once he gets paid? Fair enough. Personally I think that the safest players in this draft are Watkins, Mathews and Mack with Clowney & Robinson right behind them (with their freak physical skills). I guess that I am okay getting one player that can make an AJ Green impact instead of 2 guys that could make a Stevie Johnson impact. I am not talking two receivers but just where those players rank league wide. It's kind of the dollar over 4 quarters argument. This draft is obviously deep but it also possess a few stars. I am okay sacrificing two good players for 1 great player. As a realistic example I am okay with Watkins over Ebron & Joel Bitonio. In a draft this deep they can potentially still find starters in the 3rd & 4th if they were to trade up.
BringBackFergy Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rLOEvYULfY That was great.
thebandit27 Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 share with the group.. Already did: Same target, different trade partner
BarleyNY Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 If Sammy Watkins is there at 4, the Bills will trade their 1st, 2nd and Stevie Johnson to Cleveland for the rights to take Sammy Watkins. Something could change, but as of today, this is on the table...Not sure this makes us better, but they see something in Sammy and envision a long term relationship with EJ and him. If Sammy is not there, they are more than happy with Matthews or Ebron at 9. Thanks for posting. I do think this is a good trade for both teams. Watkins is the kind of receiver that EJ needs much more so than Stevie Johnson, coincidentally would fit very well in Cleveland with Shanny2's system. Watkins has an amazing ability to adjust to the ball. I think EJ lacks somewhat from an accuracy standpoint and really needs that. Johnson can do a lot for Cleveland's new offense too. It relies heavily on slot wide receivers and he can do real damage from that spot. It is a lot for the Bills to give up, but something like that might pay off well for them.
Kirby Jackson Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 (edited) I have come around to the fact that in my heart of hearts, I will be dissapointed if we don't get either Evans or Ebron. IMO these are two players where we truly have nothing like them on this team, they are so young that while they are already considered elite they will just keep getting better. Watkins could be another Larry Fitzgerald and don't get me wrong I would be thrilled to have him. For this year - I feel like Evans or Ebron put the Bills offense on another level for teams to game plan against and defend. We already have a lot of speed and can run screens with CJ and Goodwin. We have very good WRs of Watkins size. I know Watkins is better than all the WRs we have but I can't stop thinking about how the missing piece is the 6'4 or 6'5 target for EJ. Both seem like they would be very difficult for a defense to defend while also worrying about our other weapons. Either they will score or they will open up the offense for the others. Oh, and it makes me ill to think about giving up picks in this draft. My issue with Evans and Ebron (and I think that they are both realistic possibilities) is that they have a lower floor than someone like Watkins. In the top 10 I want a guy that has a high floor and high ceiling. I think that Sammy Watkins floor is going to be about Mike Williams career, a really good number 2 or a low end 1 (like Stevie). Evans to me could be Alshon Jeffery or Dewayne Jarrett. He has struggled in press coverage and is still a little raw. He could be great but in the top 10 if both guys can be great I want the guy that is less likely to be below average. With that being said I think that Evans is a realistic option that is not getting talked about enough on here at the moment. He was for a while but since the Mike Williams trade it has cooled. Edited May 1, 2014 by Kirby Jackson
NoSaint Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 Watkins only played three years, and I look at the kids 2012 season with some questions about a drug arrest, and a two game suspension. Which player will he be once he gets paid? have you looked into him on the character side? im normally among the first to say "just not getting into trouble for a year doesnt prove your are reformed" but from what ive read on him it certainly didnt leave me feeling like he will be a blackmon type of player.
YoloinOhio Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 My issue with Evans and Ebron (and I think that they are both realistic possibilities) is tht they have a lower floor than someone like Watkins. In the top 10 I want a guy that has a high floor and high ceiling. I think that Sammy Watkins floor is going to be about Mike Williams career, a really good number 2 or a low end 1 (like Stevie). Evans to me could be Alshon Jeffery or Dewayne Jarrett. He has struggled in press coverage and is still a little raw. He could be great but in the top 10 if both guys can be great I want the guy that is less likely to be below average. With that being said I think that Evans is a realistic option that is not getting talked about enough on here at the moment. He was for a while but since the Mike Williams trade it has cooled. I noticed this in the 1at half of the Duke game and Bills actually brought in Ross Cockrell for a visit who was covering him and sometimes that can mean they were getting intelligence from him on Evans' trouble areas. Cockrell forced him into 2 penalties.
NoSaint Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 I noticed this in the 1at half of the Duke game and Bills actually brought in Ross Cockrell for a visit who was covering him and sometimes that can mean they were getting intelligence from him on Evans' trouble areas. Cockrell forced him into 2 penalties. yup - i wouldnt be surprised if they were scouting evans and saw what he did and figured itd be a 2 for 1 to learn more about cockrell, AND ask him a few questions about evans too.
Recommended Posts