All right, sources have reported back, and this happens next Thursday.

[snamsnoops]

One more thing to add to that Bandit is that with the team for sale they are in win now mode. If they can get a guy like Watkins for example that they think can produce 1,000 yards and 8 TDs as a rookie then their playoff chances are increased. They have solid WR depth but as NoSaint brought up earlier they don't have a pass catcher (TE or WR) that would rank in the top 20 at his position. If you have an opportunity to surround those solid players with a star your talent goes from pretty good to great.

Not that he is great but I would say Chandler would rank in the top 20!

[r00tabaga]

Trade down. Far too many good players to give away picks. Deepest talent pool in years and we only have 6 selections (I think) and people wanna have less??? Or even worse are the people who want to mortgage next years draft picks too.

[dave mcbride]

Anyone concerned with the nutso math here? In this draft it's almost in unfathomable that the number 9 and 41 and SJ would not make more of an impact than Watkins alone. SJ had a down year but he could easily be a top 40 WR...add that to a bookend OT like Mathews or franchise TE potential like Ebron and whoever you can get in the second and I don't see how this trade helps the Bills. SJ also happens to be the only guy who can consistently get open vs the Pats new CB Revis.

I think that the staff thinks Mike Williams has more upside than Johnson, and I think that the view Johnson as

therefore very expendable. In this scenario, they're giving up a second in order to get one of the four truly elite players in the draft. That's the logic, I presume (assuming this is real for a second). NFL teams win with elite players, and the Bills have none on offense at present. Spiller was drafted to be one, but he's not - at least yet. I also suspect that they feel they need to give the QB a weapon who is more dependable than Johnson was last year.

 

Just my opinion, but I think they're looking to unload Stevie.

 

Trade down. Far too many good players to give away picks. Deepest talent pool in years and we only have 6 selections (I think) and people wanna have less??? Or even worse are the people who want to mortgage next years draft picks too.

Seven selections. They simply spent one of them already on a borderline very good WR (assuming he can stay out of trouble). He still counts as a draft pick.

Edited May 1, 2014 by dave mcbride

[NoSaint]

Not that he is great but I would say Chandler would rank in the top 20!

 

How high in it? Because if were talking like 17, I think the point strongly remains the same.

[Kirby Jackson]

Not that he is great but I would say Chandler would rank in the top 20!

I think that I had him at 24 when we did this exercise. If you factor in the rookies 25. Some other posters had him in the 21 range but it would be really difficult to get him into the top 15.

[r00tabaga]

@Dave McBride

Mike Williams doesn't count...we only have 6 picks in this years NFL Draft

I looked it up.

[dave mcbride]

@Dave McBride

Mike Williams doesn't count...we only have 6 picks in this years NFL Draft

I looked it up.

He certainly counts to me, and he's definitely better than anyone who will be available at that spot. He's a real talent who had produced, and he's young.

[enlightener]

Um....

 

Why would the Browns want SJ when they could just draft Watkins for less than half his salary?

 

CBF

well first they would be able to draft a qb at nine instead of 4, second they would get another pick,number 41, and third they would get a decent receiver in the mix to boot, or maybe i didnt understand your question. seems obvious to me. we did the same last year btw

[enlightener]

Anyone concerned with the nutso math here? In this draft it's almost in unfathomable that the number 9 and 41 and SJ would not make more of an impact than Watkins alone. SJ had a down year but he could easily be a top 40 WR...add that to a bookend OT like Mathews or franchise TE potential like Ebron and whoever you can get in the second and I don't see how this trade helps the Bills. SJ also happens to be the only guy who can consistently get open vs the Pats new CB Revis.

sj had a typically worse year than the previous and has steadily gotten more injured, top 40 doesnt say much when watkins is a top 5 talent and would take his place anyway. the revis nonsense is so 2010 and never resulted in wins anyways

[TheFunPolice]

every year someone slides....

 

The draft almost never goes according to script. There will be someone there at #9 that either the Bills can draft or trade down and pick up more premium picks.

 

I wouldn't hate a trade up, but how good is this WR? If it were for Mack or Clowney I would feel more comfortable.

[snamsnoops]

How high in it? Because if were talking like 17, I think the point strongly remains the same.

According to last year he was around 10! Chandler isn't as horrible as a lot of people on here think. He is a good TE, and thats about as far as i would go. We stop the carousel of unproven QB's (We started a lot of QB's that probably shouldn't of been starting) his #'s should improve. Saying he isn't top 20 in the league is ridiculous,,,, I think anyways!

[Kipers Hair]

 

He certainly counts to me, and he's definitely better than anyone who will be available at that spot. He's a real talent who had produced, and he's young.

Agree - MW is our 6th round pick I believe...damn good one with some red flags, but worth the "pick"...

[Kirby Jackson]

According to last year he was around 10! Chandler isn't as horrible as a lot of people on here think. He is a good TE, and thats about as far as i would go. We stop the carousel of unproven QB's (We started a lot of QB's that probably shouldn't of been starting) his #'s should improve. Saying he isn't top 20 in the league is ridiculous,,,, I think anyways!

This was my list of tight ends that I would trade Chandler straight up for (in no particular order): J. Graham, G. Graham, Gronk, Gates, Gresham, Ebron, Pitta, Witten, Daniels, Rudolph, Eiffert, Cameron, Thomas, Charles Clay, Greg Olsen, Reed, Miller, Ertz, ASJ, Bennett, Finley, Fleener, Cook, and Davis. That's 24 by my count that I would trade Chandler straight up for. His stats are kind of irrelevant to me because he gets more chances than a lot of these guys. Some are debatable at this point (like Daniels) but there are others that are debatable that were left off (like Dickson). He may be a little higher than 25 to some but not too much higher. Edited May 1, 2014 by Kirby Jackson

[Formerly Allan in MD]

We need a "go to" quarterback more than someone who won't see good balls that often.

[thewildrabbit]

Watching every game last year, there is an alternate outcome without too much imagination used. The Kansas City game where we out gained them about 500 to 200, as an example. I would rather be in a position like the Bills are looking forward, instead of being the team that was the beneficiary of an unsustainable record. You can always look back 15 years and attach it to the current team if you want. This is a more talented team than we have had in awhile. I choose to look forward with optimism, rather than backward with pessimism.

The problem has never been with the talent or lack of, it is always the constant stupid mistakes the team makes every year. Last year was no exception with wrong decisions that were made starting in the off season, and went forward during the season.

 

I could go back every year for fourteen years and point out the more then obvious mistakes that cost the team winnable games every year. Want last years ? Starting the season with three unproven rookie QB's, and there was a strong chance that an undrafted free agent QB would start the season in the opening game. Something that has never happened in the entire history of the league, and yet this coaching staff was contemplating that move. The team brings in Matt Leinart, Matt Flynn and then release them before they can show anything on the field. The Team clung to Jeff Tuel like he was gold, and in reality Tuel has never been a winner in college, and has a long history of losing many, many games.

 

The team let their best pass blocker leave for Tennessee in free agency, and replaced him with two of the very worst players in the NFL at their respective positions. Both players were cut after week six, and replaced with the backup center who was also a player with a storied history of grading poorly. The Bills were incredibly lucky they had no further serious injury to the starters on that line because the only backups were directly off the waiver wire.

 

That Kansas City game is a good example of the stupidity that ensues on bad teams. The Buffalo Bills were dominating that Chief team on defense and with the run game. They actually held them to only three field goals on offense all game long. It was the moronic play calling to put the game in Jeff Tuels hands on third and goal. Rather then just running it one more time and attempting a FG instead of allowing that un drafted rookie QB to throw up a lame duck pass. An intercepted pass that turned around the entire momentum of the game. Then once behind in the score the coaches forgot about how brilliantly they had run the ball all game, and proceeded to let that rookie QB throw 25 times in the second half to ultimately 39 times that game....how ridiculously stupid.

 

We could argue these points over and over yet the results are proven on the scoreboard.

 

When you look at all the talent on both sides of the ball it is painfully obvious to me that better coaching, and better personnel decisions would have yielded better results then last years 6-10 season. That is the singular problem with losing teams in that they always seem to find new and unique ways to lose every year. The same way winning teams find ways to pull out wins every season.

 

Bills fans knew the defense was better then DC's George Edwards, Dave Wannstedt showed, and hiring Mike Pettine proved that fact. Bills fans know the current talent level on the team should equal a winning season. Stupid decisions, and mistakes will more then likely keep them from winning again this season. So far this off season this regime hasn't shown me anything different from the year previous.

 

 

DE Jadeveon Clowney... 3 sacks really? 3 sacks in all of last year doesn't equate to #1 overall in my view. It is no wonder why the Texans are looking to trade back.

 

OT Greg Robinson will likely struggle with pass blocking at the pro level his first year.

 

WR Sammy Watkins nearly 60% of his receptions were from screen plays, 70% of his receptions are within 5 yards of the LoS. 2012 drug arrest, 2 game suspension. Not worth giving up that #2 this year or #1 next year for IMO

 

LBer Khalil Mack might be the only player worthy of trading up to the #4 position to draft. But then I hate the idea of giving up that 2nd round pick or more for a single player in a draft loaded with this much talent.

 

 

I'm not awaiting this regime to make the proper decisions that will propel them into a winning season. I'm thinking its going to take ownership change to change the losing culture.

[Thurman#1]

Start convincing me now that Watkins is worth all of the chatter surrounding him. Obviously people who know football, scouts, FO coaches etc. like the guy if what we read is to be believed...I just can't get over the hurdle that more than 50% of his receptions last season began at or behind the line of scrimmage. That won't be the case in the NFL.

 

Is he a polished route runner?

Does he have excellent hands?

Can he disengage from tight coverage?

 

These are honest questions that I'm interested in getting feedback on.

 

 

Cosell says he's the best since AJ Green and Julio Jones.

 

http://www.nfl.com/n...=Twitter_nfl_cb

 

 

Here's two excellent breakdowns with video stills and video from the excellent Matt Waldman:

 

http://mattwaldmanrs...ins-a-big-deal/

 

http://mattwaldmanrsp.com/2013/11/07/a-prayer-for-sammy-watkins/

Edited May 1, 2014 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

I think that I had him at 24 when we did this exercise. If you factor in the rookies 25. Some other posters had him in the 21 range but it would be really difficult to get him into the top 15.

 

 

Why?

 

Chandler's 13th in receptions for TEs, 12th in receiving yardage, 13th in yards per catch among TEs with double-digit receptions, He's not a very good blocker, but very few guys above him in receiving are.

 

The problem has never been with the talent or lack of, it is always the constant stupid mistakes the team makes every year. Last year was no exception with wrong decisions that were made starting in the off season, and went forward during the season.

 

I could go back every year for fourteen years and point out the more then obvious mistakes that cost the team winnable games every year. Want last years ? Starting the season with three unproven rookie QB's, and there was a strong chance that an undrafted free agent QB would start the season in the opening game.

 

 

Not reasonable to blame the Bills for Kolb's injury. He would likely have been the starter. By the time of his injury, there wasn't anyone any good available to replace him.

 

Any team losing it's likely number one in training camp is going to have QB problems.

 

 

 

 

 

The Team clung to Jeff Tuel like he was gold, and in reality Tuel has never been a winner in college, and has a long history of losing many, many games.

 

It seems too obvious to say, it's been said a million times before but apparently you haven't heard it, so ...

 

You can't judge one player by his team's win-loss record, you just can't. You judge teams by their win-loss record, but you judge players by how well they play.

 

 

That Kansas City game is a good example of the stupidity that ensues on bad teams. The Buffalo Bills were dominating that Chief team on defense and with the run game. They actually held them to only three field goals on offense all game long. It was the moronic play calling to put the game in Jeff Tuels hands on third and goal. Rather then just running it one more time and attempting a FG instead of allowing that un drafted rookie QB to throw up a lame duck pass. An intercepted pass that turned around the entire momentum of the game. Then once behind in the score the coaches forgot about how brilliantly they had run the ball all game, and proceeded to let that rookie QB throw 25 times in the second half to ultimately 39 times that game....how ridiculously stupid.

 

 

It's at least as reasonable to blame bad execution.

 

 

We could argue these points over and over yet the results are proven on the scoreboard.

 

When you look at all the talent on both sides of the ball it is painfully obvious to me that better coaching, and better personnel decisions would have yielded better results then last years 6-10 season. That is the singular problem with losing teams in that they always seem to find new and unique ways to lose every year. The same way winning teams find ways to pull out wins every season.

 

Bills fans knew the defense was better then DC's George Edwards, Dave Wannstedt showed, and hiring Mike Pettine proved that fact. Bills fans know the current talent level on the team should equal a winning season. Stupid decisions, and mistakes will more then likely keep them from winning again this season. So far this off season this regime hasn't shown me anything different from the year previous.

 

 

DE Jadeveon Clowney... 3 sacks really? 3 sacks in all of last year doesn't equate to #1 overall in my view. It is no wonder why the Texans are looking to trade back.

 

OT Greg Robinson will likely struggle with pass blocking at the pro level his first year.

 

WR Sammy Watkins nearly 60% of his receptions were from screen plays, 70% of his receptions are within 5 yards of the LoS. 2012 drug arrest, 2 game suspension. Not worth giving up that #2 this year or #1 next year for IMO

 

LBer Khalil Mack might be the only player worthy of trading up to the #4 position to draft. But then I hate the idea of giving up that 2nd round pick or more for a single player in a draft loaded with this much talent.

 

 

I'm not awaiting this regime to make the proper decisions that will propel them into a winning season. I'm thinking its going to take ownership change to change the losing culture.

 

 

You can't blame Watkins for his team's playbook. It's not that he can't run many patterns. It just made sense for them to isolate him on screens a lot. He did extremely well on screens, but also on every other type of pattern they had him run.

 

HIs YPC is very good, but insane for a guy who caught as many short balls as he did. He's incredible at YAC, but really he's incredible at everything.

 

I don't see them trading up for him, but I wouldn't mind if they did.

 

I don't care if Robinson doesn't have a great year his first year if he becomes a great player. IMHO it's just the way the pundits say, there are four to five blue-chippers, Clowney, Robinson, Mack, Watkins and Matthews. All would be worth trading up for ... depending on the compensation necessary to make it happen. I'd call and ask once it got down to #4 or #5 and probably would find it too rich for my blood.

 

 

 

 

And I sure don't see "all the talent on both sides of the ball," last year adding up to a better record, especially after Kolb's injury forced EJ in. After that, it looked like it was likely to be a long year on offense. This was an extremely young team and a team with problems on the line and at WR on top of it's inexperienced QBs once Kolb went out.

Edited May 1, 2014 by Thurman#1

[dezertbill]

From Cleveland's perspective, this is a phenomenal trade. They only drop down 5 spots, most likely drafting who they covet all along with their top pick. In the meantime they pick up an extra 2nd rounder (giving them 4 picks in the top 41 and 8 picks in the first four rounds) AND a true number 2 receiver with multiple 1000 yard receiving years under his belt on the right side of 30. The Browns need a lot of help. For them I rate this 10 out of 10.

 

From Buffalo's perspective, this may turn out to be a great deal for them as well. They need to surround EJ with as many studs as they can, and getting someone like Watkins who is a high character guy and a true #1 to pair with Woods, Williams, and Goodwin would be great news for Manuel. Giving up on Stevie Johnson is a bonus due to his salary and basically moving a number 2 receiver for a true number one. The 2nd round pick is where I get a bit antsy. The Bills have a lot of questions on defense (although they won't admit it) and a gaping hole at RT that the 41st overall pick would go a long way to help solve. I rate the deal for Buffalo 8 out of 10 just based on Watkins potential and what he brings.

 

With all of that said, if the Bills stay at 9 and draft Ebron (which WILL be their pick if they stay at 9) unlike many on this board I would be very happy. They can then go out and get a starting RT for the next 10 years or defensive stud with pick 41.

[maryland-bills-fan]

we don't need a TE at #9.

[BuffaloFan68]

This would be a bad move by the Bills - big time. Teams don't draft TEs in the top 10 unless they are already a playoff contender.