Fan in San Diego Posted April 30, 2014 Posted April 30, 2014 I think they should stay put and take the best player available.
dave mcbride Posted April 30, 2014 Posted April 30, 2014 I wrote this in another thread, but looking at it I don't think it's pick #4 that the Bills are trading for if they are adding SJ13...it's got to be pick #1 or #2..but anyways heres what I wrote: I think it all depends on the teams doing the trade...look at some of last years trades: Miami trades pick #12 and #42 for Raiders #3 - this would be most like what Bills are trying to do...Miami switched 1st round picks and gave up their second round pick to move up 9 spots into the top 3...Buffalo's #9 is worth more then Miamis #12, so i could see Bills swapping firsts and giving a 3rd for Cleveland's #4 moving only 5 spots down with the difference in points being much less then what Miami and Raiders had last year. Buffalo trades #8 and #71 for Rams #16, #46, #78 and #222 - this is a swap of 2 picks in 2 different rounds with Rams giving up a 2nd and a 6th or 7th Cowboys trade #18 for 49ers #31 and #74 - 49ers move up 12 spots for a switch of 1st's and a 3rd round pick I think you're assuming the Bills want Stevie around. I wouldn't assume that.
yungmack Posted April 30, 2014 Posted April 30, 2014 I thought this was one of the odder bits of "insider info" to come our way this off season. I wondered where in the world it could have originated. Then I noted your avatar. Puzzle solved.
Tsaikotic Posted April 30, 2014 Posted April 30, 2014 (edited) I think you're assuming the Bills want Stevie around. I wouldn't assume that. if SJ13 was in the swap then I don't see any need to trade anything past swapping 1st round picks and giving SJ13..no other draft picks would be needed for the trade...maybe a 7th for a little extra ummph..but some are saying SJ13 should be worth a 3rd at least this would still allow Cleveland to pick a good wr like Evans and the rookie pay scale would be lower due to later pick...plus theyd get a good slot reciever in SJ13..it's a win-win as far as i can tell Buffalo could even possibly get a 6th round pick back..so I can see: Bills #9 plus SJ13 for Browns #4 and #180(6th rd) Edited April 30, 2014 by Tsaikotic
John from Riverside Posted April 30, 2014 Posted April 30, 2014 The thing is....we are almost assured to get a good player in round 2.....I dont want to give that up!
YoloinOhio Posted April 30, 2014 Posted April 30, 2014 (edited) if SJ13 was in the swap then I don't see any need to trade anything past swapping 1st round picks and giving SJ13..no other draft picks would be needed for the trade...maybe a 7th for a little extra ummph..but some are saying SJ13 should be worth a 3rd at least this would still allow Cleveland to pick a good wr like Evans and the rookie pay scale would be lower due to later pick...plus theyd get a good slot reciever in SJ13..it's a win-win as far as i can tell The Browns signed Andrew Hawkins in FA to be their slot guy and they absolutely love him. I think if this trade went down the Browns would not take a WR until later and SJ would take over for Greg Little as the #2. He has been putrid.They have a ton of needs everywhere. Edited April 30, 2014 by YoloinOhio
NoSaint Posted April 30, 2014 Posted April 30, 2014 Adding an impact WR and RT/TE will still leave some holes at G and LB which could be exploited by opposing teams. This weakness could potentially undo the goodness of adding a WR. And note that the original post claims StevieJ will be part of this maneuver. Which means we will be thin on experience as well on the receving front. All in all, I don't agree that we are a playoff caliber team if we give up our 2nd and Stevie (and note I am not a big Stevie fan and yet hold this opinion). I much rather draft a WR/TE, LB and G with our (current) top picks. I understand there are questions but I don't think the signed Williams to back up a rookie second rounder this September. Likewise with kiko and spikes (and Lawson and rivers) I don't think its a spot they pursue for a starter unless that guy is Mack. Similarly at WR we have good players but not a GREAT one. It's a matter of if you think Watkins is an aj green or harvin without the baggage, I suppose. All teams have SOME position that could be upgraded and as you get to the wild card area it's normally several. What we seem to be lacking primarily is elite talent in the passing game or and a second DE.
Mark Vader Posted April 30, 2014 Posted April 30, 2014 I love Sammy Watkins and I trust Doug Whaley, but I think a trade like this would have the Bills giving up too much, not to mention a trade like this is very risky. Exchanging our first and giving up Stevie is fine, but adding our 2nd rounder is a lot to move up just 5 spots. If the Browns want an extra pick, then give them our 3rd or 4th rounder, nothing higher. If it's a 2nd round pick the Browns want so much, then give them our 2nd rounder in 2015.
KOKBILLS Posted April 30, 2014 Posted April 30, 2014 The thing is....we are almost assured to get a good player in round 2.....I dont want to give that up! Exactly...Look at what we got last year...This Draft is deeper...
Pete Posted April 30, 2014 Posted April 30, 2014 I love Sammy, but hate the proposed trade. Sit back at. 9 and let the draft come to us. Good players will slide, and our phone will be ringing. We are close, this draft is crucial
Mark Vader Posted April 30, 2014 Posted April 30, 2014 I hope this is the only time the NFL pushes back the start of the draft. Just think right now we could have been going over all 7 picks and discussing each of them CBF Keep hoping. As much as we didn't like the NFL turning the draft into a 3 day event, the ratings for the draft got bigger. May is a sweeps month for ratings, which will only mean more money. Add in the hype for this year's draft, and you are looking at even bigger ratings. The NFL Draft in May is now a mainstay.
Gavin in Va Beach Posted April 30, 2014 Posted April 30, 2014 Jesus God no. The NFL is riddled with can't miss college wide receivers barely hanging onto their jobs. The Bills still need to stockpile talent, not risk multiple picks on hope. If anything trade down.
thebandit27 Posted April 30, 2014 Posted April 30, 2014 I love Sammy, but hate the proposed trade. Sit back at. 9 and let the draft come to us. Good players will slide, and our phone will be ringing. We are close, this draft is crucial Here's the thing: the general consensus is that there's 6 elite prospects in this draft. Those 6 guys are: Clowney Mack Robinson Matthews Watkins Evans Even if 2 QBs go in the top 8, I don't see any of those 6 guys sliding...odds are the Bills would have to move up to get one of them.
dave mcbride Posted April 30, 2014 Posted April 30, 2014 if SJ13 was in the swap then I don't see any need to trade anything past swapping 1st round picks and giving SJ13..no other draft picks would be needed for the trade...maybe a 7th for a little extra ummph..but some are saying SJ13 should be worth a 3rd at least this would still allow Cleveland to pick a good wr like Evans and the rookie pay scale would be lower due to later pick...plus theyd get a good slot reciever in SJ13..it's a win-win as far as i can tell Buffalo could even possibly get a 6th round pick back..so I can see: Bills #9 plus SJ13 for Browns #4 and #180(6th rd) Let me rephrase - I may be wrong, but I think the Bills may well be happy to get Stevie out of their hands and his contract off the books. That is, I don't think he's a valued asset, but rather seen as a middle-tier receiver with potentially a couple of good years left. I don't that a ton of value is assigned to him, especially given his production last year. Here's the thing: the general consensus is that there's 6 elite prospects in this draft. Those 6 guys are: Clowney Mack Robinson Matthews Watkins Evans Even if 2 QBs go in the top 8, I don't see any of those 6 guys sliding...odds are the Bills would have to move up to get one of them. Yep - exactly. I think the Bills want to leave this draft with an elite player.
Gavin in Va Beach Posted April 30, 2014 Posted April 30, 2014 Here's the thing: the general consensus is that there's 6 elite prospects in this draft. Those 6 guys are: Clowney Mack Robinson Matthews Watkins Evans Even if 2 QBs go in the top 8, I don't see any of those 6 guys sliding...odds are the Bills would have to move up to get one of them. Here's the thing, history teaches us that of those 6 elite prospects maybe 2 will actually turn out to be elite, 2 will turn out to be pretty good to good, and 2 will turn out to be good to busts. Trading up is for suckers.
Pete Posted April 30, 2014 Posted April 30, 2014 Here's the thing: the general consensus is that there's 6 elite prospects in this draft. Those 6 guys are: Clowney Mack Robinson Matthews Watkins Evans Even if 2 QBs go in the top 8, I don't see any of those 6 guys sliding...odds are the Bills would have to move up to get one of them. sure that is the conventional wisdom. But what happens if Bortles and Lewan go top 5? What offer do we receive if Johnny Football is there at 9? Don't believe rankings and GM speak- it is all poker. Someone will slide, and we are in a great spot at 9
Cleveland Rocks? Posted April 30, 2014 Posted April 30, 2014 His contract number is pretty high going forward and he needs to be much better than last year to earn it. Mostly though, the trade Stevie talk comes from the crowd who will talk incessantly of his few drops in big situations and of his penalized on-field celebrations a few seasons back. They also REALLY hate, and can't let go, that he didn't make the effort to run down a guy he had no realistic way of catching after Tuel threw an interception last year against KC. SJ = Lightning rod. OK, got it... well, he would fit right in here our WRs do the same thing! Seriously though, he is in the prime of his career so I would think if the Bills decide they are better off without him I think they could do better than moving up 4 spots in the draft. Let alone the 41st pick!! I mean, this never would have happened with Russ Brandon and Coster in Draft Day.
Tsaikotic Posted April 30, 2014 Posted April 30, 2014 OK, got it... well, he would fit right in here our WRs do the same thing! Seriously though, he is in the prime of his career so I would think if the Bills decide they are better off without him I think they could do better than moving up 4 spots in the draft. Let alone the 41st pick!! I mean, this never would have happened with Russ Brandon and Coster in Draft Day. thats why I don't think it's the Browns they're dealing with..to many things on the table for just moving up 5 spots
Buffalo Barbarian Posted April 30, 2014 Posted April 30, 2014 If Sammy Watkins is there at 4, the Bills will trade their 1st, 2nd and Stevie Johnson to Cleveland for the rights to take Sammy Watkins. Something could change, but as of today, this is on the table...Not sure this makes us better, but they see something in Sammy and envision a long term relationship with EJ and him. If Sammy is not there, they are more than happy with Matthews or Ebron at 9. Thanks Mel
thebandit27 Posted April 30, 2014 Posted April 30, 2014 Here's the thing, history teaches us that of those 6 elite prospects maybe 2 will actually turn out to be elite, 2 will turn out to be pretty good to good, and 2 will turn out to be good to busts. Trading up is for suckers. Why does history teach us that? Recent history doesn't reflect that at all: 2010 Top 6 Bradford - good Suh - pro bowler McCoy - pro bowler Trent Williams - pro bowler Eric Berry - pro bowler Russell Okung - pro bowler 2011 - Top 6 Newton - pro bowler Miller - pro bowler Dareus - pro bowler AJ Green - pro bowler Peterson - pro bowler Julio Jones - pro bowler 2012 - Top 6 Luck - pro bowler RG3 - pro bowler Richardson - I'd call him a bust so far Kalil - pro bowler Blackmon - bust so far Claiborne - good 2013 - too soon to say sure that is the conventional wisdom. But what happens if Bortles and Lewan go top 5? What offer do we receive if Johnny Football is there at 9? Don't believe rankings and GM speak- it is all poker. Someone will slide, and we are in a great spot at 9 I understand what you're saying, but I'm not going solely based off of GM speak. I have some contacts in the scouting community (as do others on this board), and from what I gather, the guys I listed are on nearly everyone's top 6-8 players' list. It's certainly possible someone will slide; I just think it's highly unlikely, and I'd rather go up and get my guy than wait and hope.
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