Cugalabanza Posted April 29, 2014 Posted April 29, 2014 It's all a bunch of crap. Free speech is dead, people. Free speech isn't dead at all. Free speech never meant you could say whatever you want and nobody can get upset about it.
Dorkington Posted April 29, 2014 Posted April 29, 2014 (edited) No, see... I asked you to source Sterling making such a statement, since you've attributed this position to him. I did not ask for you to quote yourself either wildly mischaracterizing, or voicing your complete misunderstanding of, contracts. You're purposefully being obtuse. I said that my "property" comment was said tongue in cheek. You can have all the final words. I have things to do. You win. Edited April 29, 2014 by Dorkington
boyst Posted April 29, 2014 Posted April 29, 2014 Free speech isn't dead at all. Free speech never meant you could say whatever you want and nobody can get upset about it. Free speech is dead. If he would have said this about homosexuals it'd be nothing, if he said it about Asians it'd be nothing, if he said it about Hispanics, nothing... but the N word and the media... boom. Yeah, we can be upset about it and think he is a scumbag but he has every right to say anything he wants and if we don't like it just turn and walk away.
Cugalabanza Posted April 29, 2014 Posted April 29, 2014 Free speech is dead. If he would have said this about homosexuals it'd be nothing, if he said it about Asians it'd be nothing, if he said it about Hispanics, nothing... but the N word and the media... boom. Yeah, we can be upset about it and think he is a scumbag but he has every right to say anything he wants and if we don't like it just turn and walk away. It has nothing to do with the issue of free speech. He spoke and he's still free. The NBA is also free and they said we don't want to be affiliated with you anymore. It's not about free speech--it's about biting the hand that feeds you. You can call your boss a dick if you want to. You have that freedom. But when he fires you for it, don't say free speech is dead.
boyst Posted April 29, 2014 Posted April 29, 2014 It has nothing to do with the issue of free speech. He spoke and he's still free. The NBA is also free and they said we don't want to be affiliated with you anymore. It's not about free speech--it's about biting the hand that feeds you. You can call your boss a dick if you want to. You have that freedom. But when he fires you for it, don't say free speech is dead. If this was under different circumstances I might be inclined to agree; but this was a trap and this was outside of the game in a private conversation. After so many instances in the past that this breaks the camels back - horrible.
Buftex Posted April 29, 2014 Posted April 29, 2014 He's actually a registered Democrat. No, he is a registered Republican, since 1998. This according to the LA Times. So, the game of poltitical hot potato, Donald Sterling style, continues. http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-mh-no-donald-sterling-20140428,0,6977964.column#axzz30J2oMUcY
boyst Posted April 29, 2014 Posted April 29, 2014 No, he is a registered Republican, since 1998. This according to the LA Times. So, the game of poltitical hot potato, Donald Sterling style, continues. http://www.latimes.c...n#axzz30J2oMUcY what does it actually matter? Anyone who says who his political affiliations define his ignorance is ignorant.
NoSaint Posted April 29, 2014 Posted April 29, 2014 (edited) Why don't you take a crack at answering your own question. I'm not at all criticizing you or your question, it's an interesting one. To me, this is an extremely isolated incident, and IMO, a player or an owner can say virtually anything he or she wants, as terrible or as heinous as it can be, and would not face a lifetime ban. In fact, I don't think this changes the bar whatsoever. You would have to equal Sterling's stupidity, or surpass it, to get this kind of punishment. In fact, there is just as good an argument to be made that this could make it harder to get a lifetime ban, because the second one will be the slippery slope, not this one. Again, I think that a player or owner could say that "Jeremy Lin is a chi__" which would be intolerably racist, without getting a year suspension. generally speaking, im not sure where it falls. i figured, given the total lack of punishment (and even recognition) that he has received for his existing resume that this one would be condemned, that we would get some stern words and a fine - maybe a suspension - but i didnt think it would be a lifetime ban with possible forced sale of the team. there have in the past been reports from players on his team that havent even been acted on (that im aware of). i think because i missed the boat so badly on the commissioners current response, is why i was testing the waters to see what people think. Edited April 29, 2014 by NoSaint
Kelly the Dog Posted April 29, 2014 Posted April 29, 2014 Free speech is dead. If he would have said this about homosexuals it'd be nothing, if he said it about Asians it'd be nothing, if he said it about Hispanics, nothing... but the N word and the media... boom. Yeah, we can be upset about it and think he is a scumbag but he has every right to say anything he wants and if we don't like it just turn and walk away. Free speech is not dead. Sterling himself said in sworn testimony in court that "Black tenants smell and attract vermin."
Deranged Rhino Posted April 29, 2014 Author Posted April 29, 2014 Free speech is dead. If he would have said this about homosexuals it'd be nothing, if he said it about Asians it'd be nothing, if he said it about Hispanics, nothing... but the N word and the media... boom. Yeah, we can be upset about it and think he is a scumbag but he has every right to say anything he wants and if we don't like it just turn and walk away. He didn't even say the n word...
NoSaint Posted April 29, 2014 Posted April 29, 2014 (edited) Free speech isn't dead at all. Free speech never meant you could say whatever you want and nobody can get upset about it. which is true - sterling aside, as im surely not staking the argument to him at this point given his broad history, speech is changing quickly in our current world. if we go back to captains posts pre-punishment he was talking about the subject a bit.... unpopular opinions being subject to mob mentality, and 24/7 documentation getting closer to a reality.... its another interesting topic, but perhaps for another day when it wont get tangled up in the mess that is sterling. Free speech is not dead. Sterling himself said in sworn testimony in court that "Black tenants smell and attract vermin." i know - it amazed me that THAT wasnt one of those hallmark moments. this tape would be hardpressed to make the top 5 sterling offenses. and post THAT he was still up for a second NAACP lifetime achievement award (an obvious sham, but still!). i imagine as you dig into the story (and i mean sterlings CAREER, not this week) and coverage, and punishments (and lack there of) its really an interesting look at a lot of issues (media, free speech, group reactions, etc...) Edited April 29, 2014 by NoSaint
boyst Posted April 29, 2014 Posted April 29, 2014 Free speech is not dead. Sterling himself said in sworn testimony in court that "Black tenants smell and attract vermin." Yep. And where was the outrage on that? Why did it get this far? What changed? Absolutely nothing. He didn't even say the n word... negro, might as well be the "N word" Either way, it is still racism/homophobia/other isms. If he'd have said such poor things about another race it'd have never been news. As a perfect example. try typing different racial slurs even here and see what filters and doesn't. The gay F word doesn't filter, for example.
Kelly the Dog Posted April 29, 2014 Posted April 29, 2014 Yep. And where was the outrage on that? Why did it get this far? What changed? Absolutely nothing. negro, might as well be the "N word" Either way, it is still racism/homophobia/other isms. If he'd have said such poor things about another race it'd have never been news. As a perfect example. try typing different racial slurs even here and see what filters and doesn't. The gay F word doesn't filter, for example. How do you not recognize the change, or the difference, that an NBA owner told his gal pal that she should not bring black players to an NBA game after seeing her pose with NBA superstar and Hall of Famer, Magic Johnson, versus saying something as obviously racist and heinous as "Black tenants smell and attract vermin." They are both hugely racist. They are worlds apart, and not remotely even in the same league, when it comes to the NBA.
Deranged Rhino Posted April 29, 2014 Author Posted April 29, 2014 (edited) negro, might as well be the "N word" Either way, it is still racism/homophobia/other isms. If he'd have said such poor things about another race it'd have never been news. As a perfect example. try typing different racial slurs even here and see what filters and doesn't. The gay F word doesn't filter, for example. I hear you, but isn't the fact that he owns an NBA team, a black league as Sir Charles says, at least a little bit significant? If he had said something about Asians you are probably correct that it wouldn't have struck the same nerve with the public at large, Sterling probably would have survived that like he has countless times before. But that's not the same thing as saying the public only cares about racism against African Americans. Edit: on second thought, since China is the nba's second largest market, a slur against Asians might have been stomped on by the nba but tmz wouldn't have run the tapes. Edited April 29, 2014 by GreggyT
Buftex Posted April 29, 2014 Posted April 29, 2014 How do you not recognize the change, or the difference, that an NBA owner told his gal pal that she should not bring black players to an NBA game after seeing her pose with NBA superstar and Hall of Famer, Magic Johnson, versus saying something as obviously racist and heinous as "Black tenants smell and attract vermin." They are both hugely racist. They are worlds apart, and not remotely even in the same league, when it comes to the NBA. Everybody who is upset about this (all those who normally talk about the NBA to let everyone know they hate it) will just throw out a bunch of false moral equivalents... no real point in trying to get them to realize the difference, I am afraid.
boyst Posted April 29, 2014 Posted April 29, 2014 How do you not recognize the change, or the difference, that an NBA owner told his gal pal that she should not bring black players to an NBA game after seeing her pose with NBA superstar and Hall of Famer, Magic Johnson, versus saying something as obviously racist and heinous as "Black tenants smell and attract vermin." They are both hugely racist. They are worlds apart, and not remotely even in the same league, when it comes to the NBA. I didn't realize there was a scale to racism. I generally view all such ignorance the same: ignorant. My bad. Please, send me a list and/or scale of racial epithets so I can determine which is suitable based on circumstances and I will know which ones I will and won't have to apologize for...because dang, man, if I am going to be racist I sure as hell don't want to apologize! I hear you, but isn't the fact that he owns an NBA team, a black league as Sir Charles says, at least a little bit significant? If he had said something about Asians you are probably correct that it wouldn't have struck the same nerve with the public at large, Sterling probably would have survived that like he has countless times before. But that's not the same thing as saying the public only cares about racism against African Americans. Edit: on second thought, since China is the nba's second largest market, a slur against Asians might have been stomped on by the nba but tmz wouldn't have run the tapes. It's all a lot of hypocrisy to me. The guy was publicly known as a racist bigot for decades now it seems and now, just now, is it a big deal. Just sad.
Buftex Posted April 29, 2014 Posted April 29, 2014 (edited) what does it actually matter? Anyone who says who his political affiliations define his ignorance is ignorant. Not sure that it matters in the bigger picture, but after the Bundy episode earlier this week, right wingers were all gleeful to find out that Sterling donated money to Democratic candidates back in the early 1990's... a few here in this thread have also referenced his political affiliations... so apparently it is of significance to them. The ones who think that the POTUS is the root of all evil... so, I just wanted to set the record straight, so we could ditch that tired, false, argument. I see so many here defending Sterling...saying he did nothing wrong, but then making the argument that his punishment was "too harsh". So which is it? Did he do something wrong (apparently his peers think he did), or should he receive no punishment? Edited April 29, 2014 by Buftex
boyst Posted April 29, 2014 Posted April 29, 2014 Everybody who is upset about this (all those who normally talk about the NBA to let everyone know they hate it) will just throw out a bunch of false moral equivalents... no real point in trying to get them to realize the difference, I am afraid. Crap, I need this memo, please someone send it to me. I definitely want to be a moral racist. That sounds a lot better, and maybe I can just blame booze and then find Jesus when I am caught! The NBA is fun. I don't know anything about many of the players or teams, I just enjoy the sport of it. Not as much as NCAAB, though. Too much pomp and circumstance. I see so many here defending Sterling...saying he did nothing wrong, but then making the argument that his punishment was "too harsh". So which is it? Did he do something wrong (apparently his peers think he did), or should he receive no punishment? He did a lot of wrong and so did society, the NBA, and everyone else from top to bottom who enabled his behavior until now. But, whew, the NBA gets a really really big thumbs up! They stood up for equal rights...20something years later. They ignored the obvious until this and now they're all high and mighty? He doesn't deserve punishment. Not after he was allowed to get away with it for all of this time. I want to know why no one else in the NBA above Sterling is going to get flack? Too bad Stern isn't still commish, he might finally get some just heat for the way he handled the league.
Kelly the Dog Posted April 29, 2014 Posted April 29, 2014 Everybody who is upset about this (all those who normally talk about the NBA to let everyone know they hate it) will just throw out a bunch of false moral equivalents... no real point in trying to get them to realize the difference, I am afraid. People don't understand degrees of racism? People don't understand the difference between saying "Blacks don't use deodorant" and "Blacks are half of a person?" Really? This needs to be explained? Granted, he has gotten away with a lot of crap over the years. I live in LA and he has been the object of scorn since I moved here about 20 years ago. But this is a quantum leap IF ONLY because he was talking specifically about the NBA.
boyst Posted April 29, 2014 Posted April 29, 2014 (edited) People don't understand degrees of racism? People don't understand the difference between saying "Blacks don't use deodorant" and "Blacks are half of a person?" Really? This needs to be explained? Oh, cool. So I can sing Nigga in a song, but I can't say !@#$. Granted, he has gotten away with a lot of crap over the years. I live in LA and he has been the object of scorn since I moved here about 20 years ago. But this is a quantum leap IF ONLY because he was talking specifically about the NBA. Freaking sweet, I am glad you're an elitist. I am totally fine with them talking about ordinary blacks like this. They're just blacks. But, basketball players...in the NBA! Dude, gotta put your foot down. It's all making sense to me now. MLK, Jr. would love what we have established right hurr. Edited April 29, 2014 by jboyst62
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