YoloinOhio Posted April 29, 2014 Posted April 29, 2014 Living here in Pa. That Steeler game was hard to stomach. These rednecks never shut up. We have our share of them in Cbus, believe it or not. I could not agree more.
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 29, 2014 Posted April 29, 2014 I didn't mean to derail, it just came to mind when reading this, because EJ has presented himself pretty well generally. When I comes to Graham's incident, I wrote it off pretty easily. When jw made some comments- they hung a bit of actual weight and created some curiosity. If you want to find the actual, I believe they are I the ej-Timmy thread of doom.... I'd hate to mischaracterize JWs words as he was clearly choosing them delicately at the time, and for him this is a career not just a hobby. If I get a chance Ill see if I can track them down. Personally, I find it weird that 40+ year old men can question a 23 year old's maturity playing one of hte most high profile jobs in the world. But the fact is, EJ had 10 games to prove himself and now it is Bortles time!!!
YoloinOhio Posted April 29, 2014 Posted April 29, 2014 IIRC, JW has alluded to times when EJ got a little testy when questioned about certain aspects of his game. I don't equate that with immaturity, though. GO BILLS!!! From what I recall, JW was sticking up for TG and saying that EJ was sensitive and should have handled the situation differently than walking away from the interview. Personally, I don't think EJ cares what TG thinks and thought the way he handled the interview was kind of tacky. It wasn't a 30 for 30, it was supposed to be a fun Super Bowl row interview and the guy asks if he thinks his team should go ahead and draft his replacement? Maybe both should have handled it differently, I don't know, but am pretty sure EJ got over it pretty quickly.
Homey D. Clown Posted April 29, 2014 Posted April 29, 2014 I do remember Marrone saying he needed EJ to get more emotional and fired up about things. Mature and calm sure, but damn a QB needs to have some swagger and cockiness to him. I mean get pissed about something sometime and get fired up I understand where you are going with this, but remember those same things were said about good QBs like Joe Montana and Aaron Rogers during their careers at some point, and other glamorized middling talents like Eli Manning. I toss Eli in there because he somehow managed to perform his best in the playoffs, and marginally better than average the rest of his lackluster career.
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 29, 2014 Posted April 29, 2014 From what I recall, JW was sticking up for TG and saying that EJ was sensitive and should have handled the situation differently than walking away from the interview. Personally, I don't think EJ cares what TG thinks and thought the way he handled the interview was kind of tacky. It wasn't a 30 for 30, it was supposed to be a fun Super Bowl row interview and the guy asks if he thinks his team should go ahead and draft his replacement? Maybe both should have handled it differently, I don't know, but am pretty sure EJ got over it pretty quickly. EJ handled it better than I would. I would have stated I could do Graham's job better than his; pointed out I'm in the top 1% of my field (how about you?); make millions (how much you pulling Timmy?), 6'4" 230 lbs (I'm guessing TG isn't that big), face smushed him, and then answered another one of his questions the rest of the time I was here.
NoSaint Posted April 29, 2014 Posted April 29, 2014 (edited) IIRC, JW has alluded to times when EJ got a little testy when questioned about certain aspects of his game. I don't equate that with immaturity, though. GO BILLS!!! Maturity may not have been the best word.... But he certainly raised his own questions in there. I think I tracked down the start of the exchange and am re-reading now. If I recall, at one point towards the tail end there's an insinuation that there is the ej we see, and that he believed there to be some cracks that are showing in the facade and he's not totally sold on the well polished image. http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/165615-ej-knee-surgery-tim-graham-questions-draft-qb/page__st__120 could be youth, could be nothing at all - i just found it interesting as far as off season message board material goes. Edited April 29, 2014 by NoSaint
Doc Posted April 29, 2014 Posted April 29, 2014 The irony being that Timmy looks like a child with his twitter nonsense and jw got testy over that post (by TXbillsfans I believe?). But I guess the kid paid millions to play a kid's game should be the model of behavior?
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 29, 2014 Posted April 29, 2014 The irony being that Timmy looks like a child with his twitter nonsense and jw got testy over that post (by TXbillsfans I believe?). But I guess the kid paid millions to play a kid's game should be the model of behavior? Seriously. IMO, EJ Manuel is way more mature than Tim Graham and it's not even close. Maturity may not have been the best word.... But he certainly raised his own questions in there. I think I tracked down the start of the exchange and am re-reading now. If I recall, at one point towards the tail end there's an insinuation that there is the ej we see, and that he believed there to be some cracks that are showing in the facade and he's not totally sold on the well polished image. http://forums.twobil...b/page__st__120 could be youth, could be nothing at all - i just found it interesting as far as off season message board material goes. I'm normally with you but I think you're reaching. I want a Qb who won't just take crap from a nerd like Graham. If anything, I wanted EJ to really go off on him. TG basically told a much bigger human being that he wasn't good enough at his job after one year. How should Manuel handle it?
JESSEFEFFER Posted April 29, 2014 Posted April 29, 2014 It is unprecedented to draft 1st round QBs in back to back years. For TG to suggest that he thought this was a good idea is an insult in the 2nd degree. For EJ to sarcastically offer a "thank you" to him for his opinion as he was being pried away was about the best response possible. It's almost like handling a heckler while speaking in public. There are very few great options.
thebandit27 Posted April 29, 2014 Posted April 29, 2014 FWIW, I was in the car with a friend who had WGR on last year, and heard Wawrow claim that the veterans on the team were upset with EJ because he didn't get out of bounds on the hit in Cleveland that injured his knee. I asked around some of the folks that I know, who said that that wasn't accurate.
LB3 Posted April 29, 2014 Posted April 29, 2014 (edited) Not to hijack the TG thread here , but I really enjoy the Hey Rookie series. It was nice getting to see EJ's cool demeanor on the sideline. I remember Marrone mentioning something in his presser after the first Pats game about how unfazed EJ was after making a mistake and how it essentially caught him off guard. Marrone wasn't kidding. I was waiting for Marrone to start shaking EJ by the shoulders and screaming "Why aren't you freaking out!" Edited April 29, 2014 by KikoSeeBallKikoGetBall
Doc Posted April 29, 2014 Posted April 29, 2014 FWIW, I was in the car with a friend who had WGR on last year, and heard Wawrow claim that the veterans on the team were upset with EJ because he didn't get out of bounds on the hit in Cleveland that injured his knee. I asked around some of the folks that I know, who said that that wasn't accurate. I don't know. If I were a veteran and the best quarterback on the team needlessly put himself in harm's way and was subsequently lost for a while, I don't if I'd be too pleased about it either.
thebandit27 Posted April 29, 2014 Posted April 29, 2014 I don't know. If I were a veteran and the best quarterback on the team needlessly put himself in harm's way and was subsequently lost for a while, I don't if I'd be too pleased about it either. Sure...but not pleased in the "hey kid, next time get down" mode, not the "this kid's no leader, a real leader would've gotten down" sentiment that was expressed on the show I heard.
Delete This Account Posted April 29, 2014 Posted April 29, 2014 Personally, I find it weird that 40+ year old men can question a 23 year old's maturity playing one of hte most high profile jobs in the world. But the fact is, EJ had 10 games to prove himself and now it is Bortles time!!! first off, i'm going to be 51 on Saturday. second, i've devoted more than half my life covering athletes. and there comes a time in this business when you can figure out which youngster has signs of maturity and which one might still be lacking in that area. and that especially includes dealing with quarterbacks, of which there have been many -- young, old and inbetween -- that have been through this town over the past 15 years. are you suggesting that i am not in a position to judge maturity because i'm old? hmmm. does not being a fan of the Replacements count for nothin? is there an age of limitations in which we no longer are capable of judging character or maturity? c'mon. questions about EJ's sensitivity to criticism have been raised numerous times. and i also went out and placed blame on him for calling his injury in the Cleveland game as some kind of "fluke," as if he was not in a position to be blamed by failing to get out of bounds. that's being mature, too, given the position he holds on the team, and the fact that the Bills lacked any experienced depth behind him. i most recently noted EJ's sensitivity to criticism in my most recent story, a piece i wrote last week on EJ, and how he is eager to shed questions and concerns raised during his rookie season. linky: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/bills-qb-manuel-eager-shed-rookie-questions The story included this graph, in which he was quoted as saying, "I had some success. And I had some bad games as well. It's obvious." Manuel wasn't kidding, and the bluntness he provided in assessing his up-and-down season was a departure from a player who had become defensive in the face of criticism last year. it's a good start to a new year. jw
YoloinOhio Posted April 29, 2014 Posted April 29, 2014 first off, i'm going to be 51 on Saturday. second, i've devoted more than half my life covering athletes. and there comes a time in this business when you can figure out which youngster has signs of maturity and which one might still be lacking in that area. and that especially includes dealing with quarterbacks, of which there have been many -- young, old and inbetween -- that have been through this town over the past 15 years. are you suggesting that i am not in a position to judge maturity because i'm old? hmmm. does not being a fan of the Replacements count for nothin? is there an age of limitations in which we no longer are capable of judging character or maturity? c'mon. questions about EJ's sensitivity to criticism have been raised numerous times. and i also went out and placed blame on him for calling his injury in the Cleveland game as some kind of "fluke," as if he was not in a position to be blamed by failing to get out of bounds. that's being mature, too, given the position he holds on the team, and the fact that the Bills lacked any experienced depth behind him. i most recently noted EJ's sensitivity to criticism in my most recent story, a piece i wrote last week on EJ, and how he is eager to shed questions and concerns raised during his rookie season. linky: http://bigstory.ap.o...ookie-questions The story included this graph, in which he was quoted as saying, "I had some success. And I had some bad games as well. It's obvious." Manuel wasn't kidding, and the bluntness he provided in assessing his up-and-down season was a departure from a player who had become defensive in the face of criticism last year. it's a good start to a new year. jw Thanks for the link. I think it has to be tough to walk into a situation where you are expected to lift a team from obscurity and failure to the playoffs as a rookie who was still raw in terms of being an NFL starter. The fans can tend to place accountability on him for the last 15 years and expect him to fail because that is what they are used to. I don't think he was afraid of the challenge, but I do think it became a little overwhelming. I am not sure there are many Bills players I have rooted for as much as him. I believe that he has what it takes to take this team to the next level.
FluffHead Posted April 29, 2014 Author Posted April 29, 2014 first off, i'm going to be 51 on Saturday. second, i've devoted more than half my life covering athletes. and there comes a time in this business when you can figure out which youngster has signs of maturity and which one might still be lacking in that area. and that especially includes dealing with quarterbacks, of which there have been many -- young, old and inbetween -- that have been through this town over the past 15 years. are you suggesting that i am not in a position to judge maturity because i'm old? hmmm. does not being a fan of the Replacements count for nothin? is there an age of limitations in which we no longer are capable of judging character or maturity? c'mon. questions about EJ's sensitivity to criticism have been raised numerous times. and i also went out and placed blame on him for calling his injury in the Cleveland game as some kind of "fluke," as if he was not in a position to be blamed by failing to get out of bounds. that's being mature, too, given the position he holds on the team, and the fact that the Bills lacked any experienced depth behind him. i most recently noted EJ's sensitivity to criticism in my most recent story, a piece i wrote last week on EJ, and how he is eager to shed questions and concerns raised during his rookie season. linky: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/bills-qb-manuel-eager-shed-rookie-questions The story included this graph, in which he was quoted as saying, "I had some success. And I had some bad games as well. It's obvious." Manuel wasn't kidding, and the bluntness he provided in assessing his up-and-down season was a departure from a player who had become defensive in the face of criticism last year. it's a good start to a new year. jw I agree with you on all points. And happy birthday
The Wiz Posted April 29, 2014 Posted April 29, 2014 (edited) IIRC, JW has alluded to times when EJ got a little testy when questioned about certain aspects of his game. I don't equate that with immaturity, though. GO BILLS!!! Who doesn't get testy when someone that has no experience in your profession criticizes you. Not a knock at JW. Just in general. Edited April 29, 2014 by The Wiz
Delete This Account Posted April 29, 2014 Posted April 29, 2014 Thanks for the link. I think it has to be tough to walk into a situation where you are expected to lift a team from obscurity and failure to the playoffs as a rookie who was still raw in terms of being an NFL starter. The fans can tend to place accountability on him for the last 15 years and expect him to fail because that is what they are used to. I don't think he was afraid of the challenge, but I do think it became a little overwhelming. I am not sure there are many Bills players I have rooted for as much as him. I believe that he has what it takes to take this team to the next level. that's the question, no? any quarterback young or old is going to face this challenge and this pressure, whether it's in Buffalo or Cleveland or Oakland -- or replacing Peyton Manning in Indianapolis. the pressure and dealing with it comes with the job. that you suggest that it might have been "overwhelming" is not a good attribute for a quarterback. not sure if he was, in fact, overwhelmed, but there were enough times in practice and in games where it could have looked that way. again, not discounting him or the ability of anyone to grow and mature from one season -- especially a rookie season -- to the next. we'll know more about EJ by October. jw
yungmack Posted April 29, 2014 Posted April 29, 2014 Happy birthday, JW. May you have many, many more.
NoSaint Posted April 29, 2014 Posted April 29, 2014 first off, i'm going to be 51 on Saturday. second, i've devoted more than half my life covering athletes. and there comes a time in this business when you can figure out which youngster has signs of maturity and which one might still be lacking in that area. and that especially includes dealing with quarterbacks, of which there have been many -- young, old and inbetween -- that have been through this town over the past 15 years. are you suggesting that i am not in a position to judge maturity because i'm old? hmmm. does not being a fan of the Replacements count for nothin? is there an age of limitations in which we no longer are capable of judging character or maturity? c'mon. questions about EJ's sensitivity to criticism have been raised numerous times. and i also went out and placed blame on him for calling his injury in the Cleveland game as some kind of "fluke," as if he was not in a position to be blamed by failing to get out of bounds. that's being mature, too, given the position he holds on the team, and the fact that the Bills lacked any experienced depth behind him. i most recently noted EJ's sensitivity to criticism in my most recent story, a piece i wrote last week on EJ, and how he is eager to shed questions and concerns raised during his rookie season. linky: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/bills-qb-manuel-eager-shed-rookie-questions The story included this graph, in which he was quoted as saying, "I had some success. And I had some bad games as well. It's obvious." Manuel wasn't kidding, and the bluntness he provided in assessing his up-and-down season was a departure from a player who had become defensive in the face of criticism last year. it's a good start to a new year. jw glad you stopped by - as i said earlier, i didnt want to step on your toes given the nature of this being your livelihood. I'm normally with you but I think you're reaching. I want a Qb who won't just take crap from a nerd like Graham. If anything, I wanted EJ to really go off on him. TG basically told a much bigger human being that he wasn't good enough at his job after one year. How should Manuel handle it? i guess what i was getting at wasnt that i was strongly questioning it based on TG, but the fact that it seemed JW was questioning if that incident was another in a series that he was starting to notice. a trend that he may be more able to identify than you or i as he has an actual working relationship there. i blew off the TG stuff, but JWs had me curious if there may be some questions "behind the scenes" glad to hear him chime in positively on the topic today.
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