John from Riverside Posted April 28, 2014 Posted April 28, 2014 nooooooo If Mathews falls to us at 9....definately but no trade ups in a deep draft We might get starters with our first 4 picks or so
Kirby Jackson Posted April 28, 2014 Posted April 28, 2014 Or, conversely, Denver's o-line lost them the game. The irony is that Denver had the 3rd ranked OL last year, Seattle was 27.
JPS Posted April 28, 2014 Posted April 28, 2014 It's like a monkey throwing a dart at a rotating dart board and predict he's going to hit double 19.
maryland-bills-fan Posted April 28, 2014 Posted April 28, 2014 (edited) Let's talk cap numbers on offensive tackles. I like the expression, "money talks, BS walks". People and the "market" set a value on how important or valuable or rare something is by setting a dollar value on it. If you need a pickup truck for your construction business, you might go whole hog and spend $60K on a truck. NOT spend $400K on a truck. The $400K pick up will not carry cement any better than the $60K truck. If you are into car racing, then you might spend a couple of hundred thousand dollars, but that is for buying something else. You can tell how the NFL teams value the different positions by how much they spend on the players. The existence of free agency allows the marketplace to seek the accurate level. A free agent LEFT offensive tackle or RIGHT offensive tackle will go where he can get the most money, and counterbalancing this is that teams will not give away any more money then they have to. cf: http://overthecap.com/top-player-salaries-cap.php?Position=RT&Year=2013 LEFT offensive tackle top 5 guys, average cap hit is $12.8M RIGHT offensive tackle top 5 guys, average cap hit is $ 5.4M LEFT offensive tackle top 10 guys, average cap hit is $8.0M RIGHT offensive tackle top 10 guys, average cap hit is $5.0M LEFT offensive tackle guys 10 to 20, average cap hit is $5.2M RIGHT offensive tackle guys 10 to 20, average cap hit is $2.4M ..........A couple of things to note: the top 5 LEFT OT's get paid TWICE as much as the top 5 RIGHT offensive tackles. You are wasting resources if you pay LEFT OT money for a RIGHT OT. Your team will be much weaker elsewhere, where you didn't have the money to pay a very good player. On the Bills, this extra money paid is the same as the 6th or 7th highest paid player on the team. A second thing is that once you get past the top 10 players, the difference is less, but RIGHT offensive tackles still get about $2.5M less than the LEFT offensive tackles. Rookies are under a rookie salary cap/control allocation that goes by draft position. The first rounders sign a 4 year contract with an possible extension to a fifth year. For the first 4 years the cap it is $3.4M. That would be about what the 10th RIGHT offensive tackle gets paid or about what the 20th LEFT offensive tackle gets paid. Expect your #9 pick offensive tackle to bolt from the team ASAP and go elsewhere, as he has been being underpaid by about $9M a year. Edited April 28, 2014 by maryland-bills-fan
NoSaint Posted April 28, 2014 Posted April 28, 2014 (edited) Let's talk cap numbers on offensive tackles. cf: http://overthecap.com/top-player-salaries-cap.php?Position=RT&Year=2013 LEFT offensive tackle top 5 guys, average cap hit is $12.8M RIGHT offensive tackle top 5 guys, average cap hit is $ 5.4M LEFT offensive tackle top 10 guys, average cap hit is $8.0M RIGHT offensive tackle top 10 guys, average cap hit is $5.0M LEFT offensive tackle guys 10 to 20, average cap hit is $5.2M RIGHT offensive tackle guys 10 to 20, average cap hit is $2.4M ultimately, this is what i was trying to stress a few times when people have commented about the two positions becoming interchangeable. its showing in sound bites a lot more than it is in actions. GMs say a lot of stuff, but where they put their money i think says a lot more than any interview. Edited April 28, 2014 by NoSaint
Canadian Bills Fan Posted April 28, 2014 Posted April 28, 2014 I truly feel that the pick will be either WR or TE in round 1. They will draft the best OT in round 2 CBF
Rockinon Posted April 28, 2014 Posted April 28, 2014 I see there are a lot of people here who still think RT is not as important as LT. Pay attention! NFL teams are no longer putting their best pass rusher opposite the LT. This just isn't done anymore unless that also happens to be the opposing team's weak link. The heat is coming every bit as much from the other side now a days. Not only that, teams are designing all kinds of exotic blitz packages in an effort to attack an offenses weakest spot. You can no longer get away with putting Joe Schmoe from down the road at RT. You can't even get away with what used to be considered a good tackle there. Offenses need two great tackles if they want to have any chance of getting some production out of their QB. I know, there is always the argument for a QB who can do what Brady or Manning does. Good luck with that. We have a guy who is just entering his second season and I don't see that changing unless he really takes a crap this year. Bottom line......we need to protect what we have, a QB who needs some time to develop and then give him as many weapons as possible. There is no doubt RT is going to be addressed. Turning one of last year's weakest positions into one of our strongest will go a long way on this team.
Kirby Jackson Posted April 28, 2014 Posted April 28, 2014 I see there are a lot of people here who still think RT is not as important as LT. Pay attention! NFL teams are no longer putting their best pass rusher opposite the LT. This just isn't done anymore unless that also happens to be the opposing team's weak link. The heat is coming every bit as much from the other side now a days. Not only that, teams are designing all kinds of exotic blitz packages in an effort to attack an offenses weakest spot. You can no longer get away with putting Joe Schmoe from down the road at RT. You can't even get away with what used to be considered a good tackle there. Offenses need two great tackles if they want to have any chance of getting some production out of their QB. Not to keep beating a dead horse but if they are interchangeable why did the top graded RT just sign a 5 year $20M deal?
maryland-bills-fan Posted April 28, 2014 Posted April 28, 2014 The smart thing to do is to talk like we ARE going to take that top LEFT offensive tackle. Those guys are rare and hard to get and we have the luxury of having a quite good one already. All the teams that don't have one, need one and we should be able to trade down and get the best RIGHT offensive tackle in the draft as well as another top 75 player.
CountryCletus Posted April 28, 2014 Posted April 28, 2014 I will throw my remote at the TV is we draft a WR... A TE isn't a bad choice, especially if it as a TE/slot guy who can create serious mismatches... Strong pass rusher would be nice... I DON'T want in the 1st round: WR QB RB DT But that is for another thread...
NoSaint Posted April 28, 2014 Posted April 28, 2014 (edited) I see there are a lot of people here who still think RT is not as important as LT. Pay attention! NFL teams are no longer putting their best pass rusher opposite the LT. This just isn't done anymore unless that also happens to be the opposing team's weak link. The heat is coming every bit as much from the other side now a days. Not only that, teams are designing all kinds of exotic blitz packages in an effort to attack an offenses weakest spot. You can no longer get away with putting Joe Schmoe from down the road at RT. You can't even get away with what used to be considered a good tackle there. Offenses need two great tackles if they want to have any chance of getting some production out of their QB. I know, there is always the argument for a QB who can do what Brady or Manning does. Good luck with that. We have a guy who is just entering his second season and I don't see that changing unless he really takes a crap this year. Bottom line......we need to protect what we have, a QB who needs some time to develop and then give him as many weapons as possible. There is no doubt RT is going to be addressed. Turning one of last year's weakest positions into one of our strongest will go a long way on this team. ultimately, yes you can move your pass rusher around, and you cant have a bum off the street there, but at the same token you still likely have one player thats better than the other and given the choice 32 out of 32 GMs are going to pick LT for where the more talented player goes, and help the RT with a chip from the TE or back (or just that hes easier for the qb too see and react to) if need be. its reflected clearly in the pay that LT is still a premium position by comparison to RT. you can get a VERY good right tackle still, without taking one in the top ten. they are available both in the second tier of talent of the draft (late 1-second round) or free agency without breaking the bank. knowing that you could get a guy like a streif this year for the same contract that the rookie would command, or option B use the 9 (or trade up!) to get one that has long term eyes to be a LT.... it seems obvious that finding a solid vet RT seems like the much better strategy as it allocates your resources more efficiently in a roster building sense. sure, having a good RT would be nice, but why not get that AND draft someone else at 9? Edited April 28, 2014 by NoSaint
bbb Posted April 28, 2014 Posted April 28, 2014 Not to keep beating a dead horse but if they are interchangeable why did the top graded RT just sign a 5 year $20M deal? I don't think it's beating a dead horse if the horse rears it's head again.
bbb Posted April 28, 2014 Posted April 28, 2014 And if Cordy DOESN'T get moved he will seek LT money on the open market (and get it). This is how it works. And it would be nice to have another quality OT on the roster as opposed to being forced to draft at a certain position (ala EJ Manuel). But, why have two guys seeking LT money?
OldTimer1960 Posted April 28, 2014 Posted April 28, 2014 Let's talk cap numbers on offensive tackles. I like the expression, "money talks, BS walks". People and the "market" set a value on how important or valuable or rare something is by setting a dollar value on it. If you need a pickup truck for your construction business, you might go whole hog and spend $60K on a truck. NOT spend $400K on a truck. The $400K pick up will not carry cement any better than the $60K truck. If you are into car racing, then you might spend a couple of hundred thousand dollars, but that is for buying something else. You can tell how the NFL teams value the different positions by how much they spend on the players. The existence of free agency allows the marketplace to seek the accurate level. A free agent LEFT offensive tackle or RIGHT offensive tackle will go where he can get the most money, and counterbalancing this is that teams will not give away any more money then they have to. cf: http://overthecap.co...on=RT&Year=2013 LEFT offensive tackle top 5 guys, average cap hit is $12.8M RIGHT offensive tackle top 5 guys, average cap hit is $ 5.4M LEFT offensive tackle top 10 guys, average cap hit is $8.0M RIGHT offensive tackle top 10 guys, average cap hit is $5.0M LEFT offensive tackle guys 10 to 20, average cap hit is $5.2M RIGHT offensive tackle guys 10 to 20, average cap hit is $2.4M ..........A couple of things to note: the top 5 LEFT OT's get paid TWICE as much as the top 5 RIGHT offensive tackles. You are wasting resources if you pay LEFT OT money for a RIGHT OT. Your team will be much weaker elsewhere, where you didn't have the money to pay a very good player. On the Bills, this extra money paid is the same as the 6th or 7th highest paid player on the team. A second thing is that once you get past the top 10 players, the difference is less, but RIGHT offensive tackles still get about $2.5M less than the LEFT offensive tackles. Rookies are under a rookie salary cap/control allocation that goes by draft position. The first rounders sign a 4 year contract with an possible extension to a fifth year. For the first 4 years the cap it is $3.4M. That would be about what the 10th RIGHT offensive tackle gets paid or about what the 20th LEFT offensive tackle gets paid. Expect your #9 pick offensive tackle to bolt from the team ASAP and go elsewhere, as he has been being underpaid by about $9M a year. This HAS been the "market value" - and teams used to draft a pass rusher to play RDE (opposite LOT). However, teams are now looking for good/great pass rushers at both RDE and LDE. That elevates the value of ROT. If you don't believe me, check out what Doug Whaley said in the pre-draft press conference.
Bronc24 Posted April 28, 2014 Posted April 28, 2014 (edited) The irony is that Denver had the 3rd ranked OL last year, Seattle was 27. Losing Clady was huge. They have shuffled their deck up front. http://denver.cbslocal.com/2014/04/21/broncos-ol-franklin-tweets-that-hes-moving-to-left-guard/ Edited April 28, 2014 by Bronc24
Big Turk Posted April 28, 2014 Posted April 28, 2014 Has any team ever traded up into the top 5 for a right tackle? Ever?? If he does, he must be trying to get fired by the new owner. Drafting a RT at 9 might get him fired anyway, trading up to draft one definitely would
Kirby Jackson Posted April 28, 2014 Posted April 28, 2014 (edited) Losing Clady was huge. They have shuffled their deck up front. http://denver.cbslocal.com/2014/04/21/broncos-ol-franklin-tweets-that-hes-moving-to-left-guard/ Clady missed virtually the whole season. He really didn't factor into the grades. The Broncos line graded out a couple of spots ahead of those offensive juggernauts in Washington and Minnesota. https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/01/13/2013-offensive-line-rankings/4/ Edited April 28, 2014 by Kirby Jackson
NoSaint Posted April 28, 2014 Posted April 28, 2014 (edited) This HAS been the "market value" - and teams used to draft a pass rusher to play RDE (opposite LOT). However, teams are now looking for good/great pass rushers at both RDE and LDE. That elevates the value of ROT. If you don't believe me, check out what Doug Whaley said in the pre-draft press conference. I think many of us are arguing that pre draft press conferences aren't ideal sources for honest answers. While pay checks given out just this offseason are more telling. Do you think prior to this season teams didnt have more than one pass rusher? If so where are all these new pass rushers coming from suddenly? Edited April 28, 2014 by NoSaint
CountryCletus Posted April 29, 2014 Posted April 29, 2014 OldTimer1960- THANK YOU!!! That's exactly what I have been saying... once upon a time we didn't need stud talent on the offensive line, then this guy name Lawrence Taylor came along...
thebandit27 Posted April 29, 2014 Posted April 29, 2014 Or, conversely, Denver's o-line lost them the game. Denver's OL was a rock all season long...Seattle just happened to have a unique combo of a relentless pass rush and one of the best secondaries in the game. They did that to a lot of teams...the fact that they had 2 weeks to prepare didn't hurt.
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