IS JIM SCHWARTZ A DINOSAUR???

[K D]

Did anyone else click on this thread expecting to see a photoshop of Schwartz's head on a dinosaur's body? I feel sad now

[voodoo poonani]

I share the OP's concern. There has been a lot of talk about getting there with just the front four. DW did the same thing and it was a disaster, one of the worst defenses ever. Pettine's exotic looks got us the most sacks ever. I really hope we don't take a step back.

[machine gun kelly]

The Bills made moves in FA and will draft accordingly to what Schwartz wants to run. We had a 4-3 in 2012 and had the personnel then, The only guy we lost since then outside of Byrd was Carrington, correct? Replaced with Branch. Why do you think we don't have the right personnel? Serious question, I feel like I am missing something,

 

I like the Schwartz hire. He is known for stopping the run in TN. He has lots of experience, and to compare him to Wanny is not fair. Schwartz has been facing NFC North teams, and exotic defenses for all the years he was a head coach. The game has not passed him by. He also was not a good head coach in controlling discipline, etc. but he did have a hand in finding good talent on the defense in Detroit.

 

My only concern is DE opposite Mario. Schwartz looks to pressure through the front four, and we have three pieces with a solid rotational player in Branch. We have a back up DE just recently, and Hughes is good but more in a 3-4 OLB. he is somewhat small for a traditional 4-3 in weighing 255 lbs. I think we'll have to pick someone in the draft to add to DE depth.

 

Lastly, I love some of these articles where it is reported we need more help at free safety. We have a sound CB group as evidenced last year, and Whaley did a nice job picking up Robie. My guess is we really use Graham as a free safety, and he has the height, size, and range to probably play it very well.

 

Besides DE, we have to get three impact players on offense for this to be a good season.

 

10-6, 10-6, 10-6. I keep saying that to myself. This has to be our year. If we can do that playing the NFC North (which Schwartz knows very well) and AFC West, we can make some things happen in the post season. How awesome would it be to beat the Packers at home, or Denver away. A man can dream.

[Malazan]

I don't think 80% of the people in this thread could look at a defense and tell you if it was 3-4 or 4-3

Edited April 28, 2014 by jeremy2020

[section122]

I share the OP's concern. There has been a lot of talk about getting there with just the front four. DW did the same thing and it was a disaster, one of the worst defenses ever. Pettine's exotic looks got us the most sacks ever. I really hope we don't take a step back.

A ton of sacks and horrible run defense along with an amazing ability to give up 3rd and long. I will gladly trade some sacks for more stout run d and more consistency.

 

That said, this doom and gloom in APRIL is absurd to put it kindly. The draft hasn't even happened yet and we have no idea what the defense will look like. Schwartz isn't a dinosaur who had his success in the early 90s like Wannstache did. Will he be successful? Who knows. The picture is way to incomplete to decide one way or another. Who would you have hired for the d coordinator position in February? I think Schwartz was an excellent hire and could be just as wrong but can we at least wait until he has done anything besides hold a press conference or do a radio interview before we cast judgement?

[voodoo poonani]

 

A ton of sacks and horrible run defense along with an amazing ability to give up 3rd and long. I will gladly trade some sacks for more stout run d and more consistency.

 

Don't forget how many three and outs wore out the defense.

 

That said, this doom and gloom in APRIL is absurd to put it kindly. The draft hasn't even happened yet and we have no idea what the defense will look like. Schwartz isn't a dinosaur who had his success in the early 90s like Wannstache did. Will he be successful? Who knows. The picture is way to incomplete to decide one way or another. Who would you have hired for the d coordinator position in February? I think Schwartz was an excellent hire and could be just as wrong but can we at least wait until he has done anything besides hold a press conference or do a radio interview before we cast judgement?

 

I'm not trying to be doom and gloom. I just said I'm concerned. My preference would have been to keep Pettine and our players would have the same scheme to grow in. That said I know we couldn't keep him, and Schwartz was the consolation prize. There isn't anybody else I wanted at the time.

 

Since then we've heard a ton of talk about getting there with just 4. That puts a ton of pressure on our secondary and exposes it. I think our secondary needs pressure to be successful. So I'm concerned they'll be burned a lot.

 

I hope I'm wrong. September can't get here fast enough.

[SJDK]

We were basically a 4-3 team last year under Pettine.

 

But it's pretty simple minded to think that because Wannstedt and Schwartz both run 4-3 defenses that they are exactly the same and will yield the same results.

Not what he was saying, sometimes I think people read These threads to get angry and chastise. I think it would be great if we could stick to the topic and argue the point or premise instead of making judgments.

[GunnerBill]

We got there with 4 a lot last year. I don't know the percentages but a lot of our pressure was generated by our front not by blitzing all the time. There were some really clever blitzes that resulted in sacks I don't deny that and I think they tend to stick in the minds of fans more, but we were not throwing exotic blitzes left, right and centre.

[voodoo poonani]

We got there with 4 a lot last year. I don't know the percentages but a lot of our pressure was generated by our front not by blitzing all the time. There were some really clever blitzes that resulted in sacks I don't deny that and I think they tend to stick in the minds of fans more, but we were not throwing exotic blitzes left, right and centre.

 

It wasn't always the front four. Although seeing Dareus drop back in coverage terrified me. I think he did defend one pass though...

[GunnerBill]

Not always, no. But a lot of the time it was.

[Dorkington]

I'm not sold on him, but hopeful that he'll keep things aggressive.

[machine gun kelly]

I don't think 80% of the people in this thread could look at a defense and tell if you was 3-4 or 4-3

 

I don't agree with that point. There are some knuckleheads, but there are also some very intelligent well thought, posters on this board.

 

Why is there so much negativity banging on guys on TBD? So many make it personal, and denigrate themselves and others. It's enjoyable to kill time while doing other things to just reply with your thoughts on certain matters. I learn a great deal from some of you on this board, and you bring up good information from research that is helpful.

 

Since I've coached football for years, I'm not one of those people you refer to in your post, but you have the right to post what you want. Thanks to the guys that go in and do the research i just don't have time to do on draft picks, player pick ups, and so on. It is appreciated by a lot of us.

[juno999]

When they first hired Schwartz I thought it was a good move. Then he switched to a 4-3(even though we dont have two dolid DE's to justify that move) and started talking about how scheme is less important and you need your guys to win one on one battles. He is starting to remind me way to much of Dave Wannstadt. Somebody put my mind at ease and tell me why I shouldnt expect this defense to drop back into the 20's where it usually is.

They picked up a run stuffing MLB and are moving Alonso outside where he can make more plays. The defense should be better with those 2 moves alone not to mention what else they did. Plus you still have the draft and the rest of the offseason.

[NoSaint]

 

 

It wasn't always the front four. Although seeing Dareus drop back in coverage terrified me. I think he did defend one pass though...

 

I was surprised seeing the blitz percentage last year as I thought it was slightly higher. That said it was still higher than Schwartz, just not as wide a gap as I expected. I think just looking at blitz percentages does ignore that despite often rushing 4, sometimes that wasn't the 4 you would expect- as you note- which I'm not banking in Schwartz doing a lot.

 

Pettine leaned a bit towards players being diverse in skills so you wouldn't always know where the rush was coming, Schwartz will lean more towards "you 4 go get the qb very aggressively, and spikes will hopefully clean up the run if they run"

Edited April 27, 2014 by NoSaint

[DefenseWinzChampionshipz]

 

 

In theory, most likely have that goal. Though after being a head coach some may find they enjoy being a manager instead of an executive. Many are probably highly motivated, some may be worn out. And with any high level role things like talent in the organization or fit to the philosophy of the organization are all variables.

 

I'd be curious if guys tend to do better or worse when comparing their first job after a HC gig than the one before. If that changes for guys with a HC that's specialty is the same side of the ball could be an interesting variable.

 

Schwartz, as a guy with a very long track record as opposed to a young guy like say josh mcdaniels who would be a wild card if we hired him fresh out of Denver, probably returns to some sort of mean that we've seen before. Smart, well prepared, a bit vanilla in scheme and will rise and fall with his talent on the front 4 a bit more than most (though all do, really)... Probably top half of the league with this group but probably not a guy that the board will be excited about as the scheme isn't flashy, probably not 60 sacks and not league leading turnovers, and I don't peg the results as top 5 but reliable and good - not likely wanny/spags 2012 results with a similar vanilla 43 but theres always a worry it'll go south if 1-2 injuries hit.

 

Damn. I SO hope you're wrong about the vanilla defense and the excitement of his scheme. I just wish that he doesn't have an ego and can realize his flaws and correct them if you as a fan of the NFL can notice it, I'm sure he can also as a pro.

 

Let's hope he keeps what he does good and corrects his flaws. Damn. I'm sounding like Chan Gailey/Jauron/Marrone. The "vanilla" effect is already in motion with my vanilla post.

[John from Riverside]

Actually your missing my point on a couple fronts. The concern about the 4-3 on my end is that we dont have the personnel for a traditional 4-3. We did not run a traditional 4-3 last year. Schwartz didnt run a hybrid scheme when he was in Detroit or Tennessee. My second concern is that Schwartz success asa d-coordinator goes back 5-10 years. This game changes quickly as we and Dave Wannstadt learned the hard way. I dont care what scheme they run so long as it fits the personel of this team and I think you need another DE( 6'4' 280 lbs type player) to run Schwartzs scheme. I also dont buy into this we have to learn to beat people one on one. The game has changed. Scheming is more important than ever to get to the QB. The days of lining them up and rushing everyone straight up the field are over unless you have elite talent. I think we have some pretty solid players but not the kind where you can just send 4 guys straight up the field and expect to get to the QB. Pettine was a master at creating mismatches. That shouldnt be ignored. Not saying Schwartz is terrible, just voicing concerns over some of his comments. He sounds just like Wannstadt did when he got the job(from a philosophical stand point).

 

Why dont u just say what u really mean?

 

You are afraid that because we are not going to throw all these exotic blitz schemes that Pettine ran that our defense is going to fall off.....and you are correlating that with Wannstadt's 4-3 defense and its lack of ability to get to the quarterback....

 

That really is your concern correct?

 

What you dont understand is that there were two things Wannstad didnt understand (or had been out of the league to long to)

 

- Sending blitzes is about TIMEING......Dave W. DID blitz....and was extremely predictable at it teams knew it was coming and we didnt get there......and when a blitz does NOT get to a QB....bad things happen

 

- Plenty of good defenses in the league run 4-3 defenses and are successful at it. What I find interesting is that we just signed a DT/DE to a extension in the offseason from one of THOSE teams.....the seahawks.

 

- 4-3 defenses are stronger against the run.....dont give as many big plays.....and generate their pass rush by overloads, stunts, and some blitzing....its a scheme to keep the defense sound and not allow running games....you let them run for short yardage on 1st and 2nd down and create 3rd and long situations then get creative with getting to the QB without sending the house.

 

we DO have the horses to run it......we signed the best run stop MLB in the league......McKelvin found his game....between him and Gilmore we have two large physical corner covers....we found Robey....Kiko......Aaron Williams is a crackerjack safety.....

 

Relax

[section122]

Don't forget how many three and outs wore out the defense.

 

I'm not trying to be doom and gloom. I just said I'm concerned. My preference would have been to keep Pettine and our players would have the same scheme to grow in. That said I know we couldn't keep him, and Schwartz was the consolation prize. There isn't anybody else I wanted at the time.

 

Since then we've heard a ton of talk about getting there with just 4. That puts a ton of pressure on our secondary and exposes it. I think our secondary needs pressure to be successful. So I'm concerned they'll be burned a lot.

 

I hope I'm wrong. September can't get here fast enough.

I agree completely that the offense caused some of the defenses struggles. The best thing Pettine did for the defense (and I don't know if it was all him or what) was the growth I saw in so many players last year. Hughes, McKelvin, Dareus, and A Williams all looked so much better than they did in Wanny's D. Was that them or Pettine? I don't have any clue but I would imagine the players are better for their experience last year.

 

The bolded is what I was driving at. If you look at the list of potential replacements Schwartz would most likely have been high on the list. People were also mentioning Henderson or Pepper Johnson who will both be on staff this year. I think everyone would have loved to keep Pettine but Schwartz was probably the best (or close to it) replacement.

 

I also agree September can't get here fast enough.

[3rdand12]

Its a fair topic isn't it ?

firstly , the Bills have a very good set of players currently manning the defense. I would say much better than what dave W had . I think even under Dave these guys would do fairly well . Our secondary is so much better and nearly complete which allows the front four to just get after it. Spikes is The Best guy in the league possibly at run stopping , cleaning up with Kiko .

The Wannstadt was all Bills could get to sign at that point. Now Bills have enough clout to bring some real and current football guys in . Bills have added and improved the staff imho. And Jim is a huge catch i think.

We need a traditional DE who can set the edge play the run and put some pressure on the QB.

Hughes is not one for setting edge so much as Lawson might be.

Schwartz will add his type of DE , and will have a lot of fun with our guys .

[NoSaint]

 

 

Damn. I SO hope you're wrong about the vanilla defense and the excitement of his scheme. I just wish that he doesn't have an ego and can realize his flaws and correct them if you as a fan of the NFL can notice it, I'm sure he can also as a pro.

 

Let's hope he keeps what he does good and corrects his flaws. Damn. I'm sounding like Chan Gailey/Jauron/Marrone. The "vanilla" effect is already in motion with my vanilla post.

 

I don't mean it as a bash- he just tends to be in the bottom few in blitz percentage - and lean heavy on talent in the front four. It worked great in Tennessee with haynesworth. Its why you saw them draft suh, fairley, and ansah as first rounders in Detroit and target vandenbosch and hold onto Avril when they could with the franchise tag. The front 4 has to be able to get after the qb while the MLB cleans up the running game.

 

With Mario, KW, dareus and Hughes, with spikes over the top- you see why he's likely excited about this year. He's not going to confuse you, but if we stay healthy in that group we should have a pretty darn good unit - that's not to mention we have a better secondary because we haven't solely focused the premium resources up front. (Might also explain why we were more willing to let Byrd walk as the single high safety isn't as vital). It's not my favorite long term plan as I don't know that you can afford to maintain those 4 spots being elite over the long haul, but really, it did beat Brady- so there's that.

Edited April 27, 2014 by NoSaint

[GunnerBill]

The other point in Detroit is that even though it might be largely Schwartz's scheme he wasn't the guy calling the plays. I know he will have had the ability to override Cunningham if he had wanted to, but no Head Coach is going to trust a DC and then overrule him on every big call. I wouldn't be surprised to see them go for a DE in the draft, but I think they probably see Lawson and Branch on obvious running downs and Hughes in passing situations as adequate if, admittedly, not absolutely ideal.