Rumor: (per Chris Wesseling of nfl.com) Stevie Johnson on the trading

[C.Biscuit97]

The post with his cap hit is telling CB. His cap numbers are higher than those of Wes Welker.

http://espn.go.com/n...-denver-broncos

 

I know that Stevie has talent. I appreciate his ability to get open. But compared to other posts that I read, I think that I tend to place less value on current players (with mileage and prior injuries), and more value on draft choices. In other words, if I was the GM and a team wanted to trade up, I would demand that they pay through the nose, or no deal.

 

Wrt to SJ, there are several factors to be considered:

 

1) Woods might already be a better wr than SJ. I am not saying that he is, but it wouldn't surprise me.

 

2) Again, we don't know, but Williams might be something special.

 

3) This draft is said to be absolutely STACKED at WR. Gil Brandt says this over and over. Coach Gruden was raving about a wr from Oregon State. He stopped just short of depicting his as great, and I never even heard of him.

 

4) #3 is tricky. It would seem to make Stevie more expendable, but it might also serve to diminish his trade value.

 

Bottom line? Stevie is a good but not great player. If a team was willing to cough up a 3rd round pick, AND the Bills think it would it would be easy to replace him, I wouldn't object to a trade. Would you?

 

1) I love Woods' talent but this is crazy to me. Woods hasn't proven a thing. Also, he benefits from Stevie receiving the #1 corner. There is a huge difference between being a #1 wr and a #2. This is why I sometimes don't like the draft. Folks assume that college players are going to be stars. If Woods had the 3 year stretch Stevie did, he'd be praised here.

 

Also, folks get on Steive about his celebration penalties. Woods punched a guy and got kicked out of a game when the Bills were short on receivers and gets a pass. Again, I have high hopes for Woods but he hasn't proven much yet.

 

2) williams also might get arrested tomorrow. I like the move but trust me, this kid has been in trouble since high school. It's funny how people thing. Stevie gets a 15 yard penalty and he needs to go. Williams has been introuble with the law several times, let's give him a chance.

 

3) Again, these college guys haven't proven anything. SJ is a proven commodity. James Hardy, drafted 5 rounds before SJ in the same draft, was a beast in college.

 

Honestly, I would never trade SJ for a 3rd round pick. I like proven players. If SJ had problems with the law or acted liek he was unhappy, then sure. But the guy loves being a Bill and is loved i nthat lockerroom. It won't go over go. The draft is a giant crapshoot. Sj isn't making a ton of money this year. He's shown signs of maturity (and his immaturity issues are so overblown).

 

I'm a Bills optimist, which I guess to negative Bills fans make me a homer. But I will trash this team if they get rid of SJ and CJ this year. Aaron Schobel Syndrome. Instead of adding talent around our good players, let's get rid of them. Awful, awful philosophy.

 

 

P.S. The idea of trading a guy who played the next day after his mother died seems completely classless by the way.

Edited April 24, 2014 by C.Biscuit97

[dave mcbride]

I don't totally disagree but Evans was never as consistent as SJ. SJ never played with Bledsoe. How many times did SJ get open downfield and jsut was missed by Fitz? If SJ was any other receiver, he would have bugged out a long time ago.

 

Evans was a better player than SJ in his first five seasons and over his three year peak. If you're going to compare like to like, Evans was more productive over a four period as well. In his first five seasons, he averaged 949 yards, 6.5 TDs, 16 ypc (!), and an AV (PFW's average value measure) of 9: http://www.pro-footb.../E/EvanLe00.htm . Bear in mind that he only started in one game his rookie season, and it's not as if Bledsoe had anything approaching a good season in the year he played with Evans (indeed, he was run out of town after the final game).

 

Johnson doesn't have a five year peak, but over the last four years he's averaged 930 yards, 6.5 TDs, 12.9 ypc and an AV of 7.5.

 

And while Evans's drop may have cost the Ravens a huge game, he did not cost his team three games because of drops/fumbles while with the Bills.

Edited April 24, 2014 by dave mcbride

[C.Biscuit97]

Well, the recieving corps is no longer SJ, Nelson and Jones......

 

 

 

 

 

 

There's an agrred upon prime for receivers?

 

And SJ may not have been the trouble maker M Williams was, but when was he a "strong leader" for the young receivers?

 

You're right. No one evers thinks the ages between 27-30 are considered an athlete's prime.

 

http://bills.buffalonews.com/2013/12/15/stevie-johnson-mourns-mothers-death-bills-brothers/

 

Johnson didn't tell many teammates, not even quarterback EJ Manuel, who found out after the game.

"My mom had breast cancer and nobody knew for six months," Manuel said. "Those types of things, you just want to keep them in, especially when you're on a team. You don't want them to be a distraction -- even though we all would have came like we're about to and show him love."

Bills receiver T.J. Graham still hadn't heard by the time he walked toward the team bus. His mouth fell open at the news.

"I could tell something was wrong with him," Graham said. "He's usually more focused. He was a little more to himself today. It was clear his mind was elsewhere.

"He's a strong guy. For him not to even ... Man, I can't even put it into words. For him to come out there and play with his brothers in a hard time ..."

Graham needed more time to gather his thoughts.

[dave mcbride]

You're right. No one evers thinks the ages between 27-30 are considered an athlete's prime.

 

 

Lee Evans, who fell off a cliff at age 28, might beg to differ. It's not age in any case - it's mileage on the treads, and Johnson has had a lot of muscle injuries over the years. Cumulatively, they impact one's speed.

[FireChan]

 

 

You're right. No one evers thinks the ages between 27-30 are considered an athlete's prime.

 

http://bills.buffalonews.com/2013/12/15/stevie-johnson-mourns-mothers-death-bills-brothers/

 

Johnson didn't tell many teammates, not even quarterback EJ Manuel, who found out after the game.

"My mom had breast cancer and nobody knew for six months," Manuel said. "Those types of things, you just want to keep them in, especially when you're on a team. You don't want them to be a distraction -- even though we all would have came like we're about to and show him love."

Bills receiver T.J. Graham still hadn't heard by the time he walked toward the team bus. His mouth fell open at the news.

"I could tell something was wrong with him," Graham said. "He's usually more focused. He was a little more to himself today. It was clear his mind was elsewhere.

"He's a strong guy. For him not to even ... Man, I can't even put it into words. For him to come out there and play with his brothers in a hard time ..."

Graham needed more time to gather his thoughts.

 

Graham's not even good at interviews? Jeez, is there anything he does right?

[OldNMBillsFan]

I am a Bill's fan, not a SJ fan. I was at the Pittsburgh game; the Bills should have won that game. I can recall many dropped passes in clutch moments by SJ. Often, one play will decide the winner. More often than not, SJ can’t make that deciding play. We need a #1 receiver who can make that play. I can’t recall him ever making a spectacular catch when the game is on the line. The Bills passing offence has been horrible for a long time. Many blame the QB; I remember many on this board saying that Evens will tear it up when he gets a real QB. He couldn’t make Jacksonville's team 2 years later. (We all know why the Ravens released him) I think there is a good chance SJ will have the same fate. Everyone wants to blame the QB in the passing game. It takes pass protection, good receivers and a quarterback that can deliver the ball. Jim Kelly was fortunate; he had a good offensive line, two Hall of fame receivers and one of the fastest receivers in the league as his #3. IMO Don Beebe was better than any #1 receivers we have had in the last 10 years. Keep SJ as the #1 and we keep losing.

[C.Biscuit97]

Evans was a better player than SJ in his first five seasons and over his three year peak. If you're going to compare like to like, Evans was more productive over a four period as well. In his first five seasons, he averaged 949 yards, 6.5 TDs, 16 ypc (!), and an AV (PFW's average value measure) of 9: http://www.pro-footb.../E/EvanLe00.htm . Bear in mind that he only started in one game his rookie season, and it's not as if Bledsoe had anything approaching a good season that year.

 

Johnson, doesn't have a five year peak, but over the last four years he's averaged 930 yards, 6.5 TDs, 12.9 ypc and an AV of 7.5.

 

And while Evans's drop may have cost the Ravens a huge game, he did not cost his team three games because of drops/fumbles while with the Bills.

 

Evans was a guy who got blamed by a lot of folks here for the problems of the offense. Similar to Stevie. And use all the nerdy stats you want, no Bills' receiver in team history ever had 3 straight 1,000 yards seasons. Ever. Not Moulds, not Evans, not Reed. With Ryan Fitzpatrick. And he's 27.

 

I am a Bill's fan, not a SJ fan. I was at the Pittsburgh game; the Bills should have won that game. I can recall many dropped passes in clutch moments by SJ. Often, one play will decide the winner. More often than not, SJ can’t make that deciding play. We need a #1 receiver who can make that play. I can’t recall him ever making a spectacular catch when the game is on the line. The Bills passing offence has been horrible for a long time. Many blame the QB; I remember many on this board saying that Evens will tear it up when he gets a real QB. He couldn’t make Jacksonville's team 2 years later. (We all know why the Ravens released him) I think there is a good chance SJ will have the same fate. Everyone wants to blame the QB in the passing game. It takes pass protection, good receivers and a quarterback that can deliver the ball. Jim Kelly was fortunate; he had a good offensive line, two Hall of fame receivers and one of the fastest receivers in the league as his #3. IMO Don Beebe was better than any #1 receivers we have had in the last 10 years. Keep SJ as the #1 and we keep losing.

 

Yeah, Don Beebe never dropped a pass. And Kelly = Fitz.

 

Lee Evans, who fell off a cliff at age 28, might beg to differ. It's not age in any case - it's mileage on the treads, and Johnson has had a lot of muscle injuries over the years. Cumulatively, they impact one's speed.

 

Evans' entire game was based on speed. SJ is not.

[dave mcbride]

Evans was a guy who got blamed by a lot of folks here for the problems of the offense. Similar to Stevie. And use all the nerdy stats you want, no Bills' receiver in team history ever had 3 straight 1,000 yards seasons. Ever. Not Moulds, not Evans, not Reed. With Ryan Fitzpatrick. And he's 27.

I was *waiting* for the the three year stat argument. I may be nerdy about this stuff, but that stat is meaningless. Eric Moulds had 1368 yards, 994 yards, and 1326 yards in successive seasons. You're not going to do him the favor of rounding up when he's .06 percent under the hallowed goal of 1000 yards? Who had the better three-year span? Andre Reed had 1312, 945, and 1113 successively. Was his three-year run not as impressive as Johnson's? The number of 1000 is arbitrary and not indicative of much when you're cutting off totals that fall only slightly beneath it (and which are accompanied by seasons significantly better than any SJ has ever had).

 

Johnson also turns 28 midway through the upcoming season. That's why I'm using that age.

Edited April 24, 2014 by dave mcbride

[jr1]

[John from Riverside]

Guys.....Marrone has already told Stevie they arent trading him....

 

This is much adooo about nothing

[dave mcbride]

Evans was a guy who got blamed by a lot of folks here for the problems of the offense. Similar to Stevie. And use all the nerdy stats you want, no Bills' receiver in team history ever had 3 straight 1,000 yards seasons. Ever. Not Moulds, not Evans, not Reed. With Ryan Fitzpatrick. And he's 27.

 

 

 

Yeah, Don Beebe never dropped a pass. And Kelly = Fitz.

 

 

 

Evans' entire game was based on speed. SJ is not.

 

If you can't run, you can't play. I'm certainly not saying that Johnson can't run now, but I'm very wary of the leg injuries. You should be too. Moulds, who actually was an elite receiver (but hardly a speed demon), saw his game go south after he tore his groin early in the 2003 season. He was never the same afterward.

[John from Riverside]

I was *waiting* for the the three year stat argument. I may be nerdy about this stuff, but that stat is meaningless. Eric Moulds had 1368 yards, 994 yards, and 1326 yards in successive seasons. You're not going to do him the favor of rounding up when he's .006 percent under the hallowed goal of 1000 yards? Who had the better three-year span? Andre Reed had 1312, 945, and 1113 successively. Was his three-year run not as impressive as Johnson's? The number of 1000 is arbitrary and not indicative of much when you're cutting off totals that fall only slightly beneath it (and which are accompanied by seasons significantly better than any SJ has ever had).

 

Johnson also turns 28 midway through the upcoming season. That's why I'm using that age.

 

What that means is that Stevie is in pretty darn good company for a 6th round pick.......putting up similar stats to Eric Moulds and Andre Reed (both considered top receivers of their times)

 

I will take that......

[Tintonfallsbillsfan]

What value does he have 5th round pick ?

[C.Biscuit97]

I was *waiting* for the the three year stat argument. I may be nerdy about this stuff, but that stat is meaningless. Eric Moulds had 1368 yards, 994 yards, and 1326 yards in successive seasons. You're not going to do him the favor of rounding up when he's .006 percent under the hallowed goal of 1000 yards? Who had the better three-year span? Andre Reed had 1312, 945, and 1113 successively. Was his three-year run not as impressive as Johnson's? The number of 1000 is arbitrary and not indicative of much when you're cutting off totals that fall only slightly beneath it (and which are accompanied by seasons significantly better than any SJ has ever had).

 

Johnson also turns 28 midway through the upcoming season. That's why I'm using that age.

 

We're coming at this from different angles. I'm not trying to say who the best receiver is. I was a big fan of Evans and Moulds and Reed favorite player of all time. I'm saying that SJ is one of the most productive players in history, is entering the prime of his career, isn't making a ton of money this year, doesn't have legal issues, so why trade him?

 

Also, let's rank the talent around SJ, Evans, Reed, and Moulds. Receiver is the most dependent position in the NFL. do you really not believe SJ played with the least talented group of the 4?

[John from Riverside]

Im telling you guys right now.....the simple action of getting TJ Graham off the field and getting someone on who can make plays is going to cause this offense to SURGE forward.....

 

So excited for the Mike Williams pick up

[C.Biscuit97]

If you can't run, you can't play. I'm certainly not saying that Johnson can't run now, but I'm very wary of the leg injuries. You should be too. Moulds, who actually was an elite receiver (but hardly a speed demon), saw his game go south after he tore his groin early in the 2003 season. He was never the same afterward.

 

Fair point. But what's the rush to get rid of him this year? Whether people here believe it or not, I know firsthand SJ is one of the most popular players in that lockerroom. A SJ trade would go over really, really bad there.

[OldNMBillsFan]

Yeah, Don Beebe never dropped a pass. And Kelly = Fitz.

 

That's my point. SJ is nothing more than a real #3 receiver. The past several years, he was the best of an awful group.

 

Bills receivers from 2010, 2011 to 2012 seasons, and where they are now. I left out the worst of the worst…. Impressive list of wide receivers

SJ- 2013 Bills 597 Yards

TJ- 2013 Bills- 361 Yards

David Nelson- 2013 Jets 423 yards

Dorin Dickerson- 2013 Lions 34 Yards

Naaman Roosevelt- No Longer In NFL

Derek Hagan- No Longer In NFL

Roscoe Parrish- No Longer In NFL

Lee Evens- No Longer In NFL

Ruvell Martin- No Longer In NFL

Donald Jones- No Longer In NFL

Just for Fun…. With the #41 pick in the 2008 NFL draft the Bills select James Hardy

Edited April 24, 2014 by OldNMBillsFan

[C.Biscuit97]

Guys.....Marrone has already told Stevie they arent trading him....

 

This is much adooo about nothing

 

If Marrone could meet with SJ after finding out his mother died and trade him a few months later, he is a cold SOB.

[Coach Tuesday]

Fair point. But what's the rush to get rid of him this year? Whether people here believe it or not, I know firsthand SJ is one of the most popular players in that lockerroom. A SJ trade would go over really, really bad there.

 

Slight correction - I'm guessing you know secondhand...

[FireChan]

 

 

Fair point. But what's the rush to get rid of him this year? Whether people here believe it or not, I know firsthand SJ is one of the most popular players in that lockerroom. A SJ trade would go over really, really bad there.

 

It's a business. They all know that. None of them are mad at Byrd.