BobChalmers Posted April 24, 2014 Posted April 24, 2014 (edited) Again, if the objective is winning, you don't let your best Safety walk, and then draft a replacement for him in the 1st round, and you don't get rid of your best receiver, and draft a replacement for him in the 1st round. All you're doing is spinning the wheels. It makes absolutely no sense for the Bills to trade Stevie Johnson and then look to draft someone to replace him. That requires your unstated premise that SJ13 is the Bills best WR. Is he? He's their most expensive WR, but based on last season, he wasn't their best. A second round rookie outplayed him. I do like his ability to get open short/medium. It's nice how he knows how to outmaneuver Revis. However: He's been non-contact hurt frequently with what looks like a chronic hamstring issue (and played hurt - which is great but frequently getting hurt is still bad). He's clearly not "clutch". For whatever reason - it can't just be luck the number of times he's failed horrifically in big moments. Edited April 24, 2014 by BobChalmers
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted April 24, 2014 Posted April 24, 2014 Yes but there's a big difference here. SJ is the Bill's best receiver only becasue they don't all that many good receiveres. They drafted Woods last year who could become better in a year or two, today not yet. Replacing Stevie with Watkins or Evens is a step up, maybe not this season yet, but give it a year or two at most and the Bill's are ahead of the curve. On top of that , you have all the off field antics wit hSJ. Alot was being written late last year about Stevie not being a Doug M kind of guy. So if Trading Stevie and the 9th to move up to 5 or 4, maybe even throw in a 3rd or 4th, I'd make that move. I wouldn't want to give up draft picks to move up, but would make that move Again, if the objective is winning, you don't let your best Safety walk, and then draft a replacement for him in the 1st round, and you don't get rid of your best receiver, and draft a replacement for him in the 1st round. All you're doing is spinning the wheels. It makes absolutely no sense for the Bills to trade Stevie Johnson and then look to draft someone to replace him.
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted April 24, 2014 Posted April 24, 2014 Again, if the objective is winning, you don't let your best Safety walk, and then draft a replacement for him in the 1st round, and you don't get rid of your best receiver, and draft a replacement for him in the 1st round. All you're doing is spinning the wheels. It makes absolutely no sense for the Bills to trade Stevie Johnson and then look to draft someone to replace him. Best, is a relative assessment, he may not be so much better than the replacement that it merits paying him as big a % of the cap.
Kellyto83TD Posted April 24, 2014 Posted April 24, 2014 Not only do I believe it, I endorse it. Woods is going to take over as #1 this year, Williams is much better than Stevie and may be our #1A with woods if coming home helps him sort his head out. We have goodwin etal as well. I say trade him now for whatever we can get.
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted April 24, 2014 Posted April 24, 2014 (edited) Best, is a relative assessment, he may not be so much better than the replacement that it merits paying him as big a % of the cap. Hypothetically speaking, If player A performs at a level(1-10), of say 8 or 9 and it costs $8 mil/yr, and player B performs at level 6 or 7 and costs less than 1 mil against the cap, then it becomes a no brainer. The difference in resources can be applied elsewhere. That is the game in the NFL. Edited April 24, 2014 by 75Bills
Johnny Hammersticks Posted April 24, 2014 Posted April 24, 2014 Depends on what Buffalo gets in return. I wouldn't let Stevie go for anything less than a 3rd round pick. Anything less simply wouldn't be worth it, IMHO. Really, isn't just about every player on the trading block if the price is right?
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted April 24, 2014 Posted April 24, 2014 (edited) Depends on what Buffalo gets in return. I wouldn't let Stevie go for anything less than a 3rd round pick. Anything less simply wouldn't be worth it, IMHO. Really, isn't just about every player on the trading block if the price is right? I agree. Sometimes I think it is better to view the players as nameless. Player X has a performance level and a cost! Emotions need to be taken out of it. If a deal makes you better, you do it. Edited April 24, 2014 by 75Bills
NoSaint Posted April 24, 2014 Posted April 24, 2014 Yeah - and for whatever reason it was pretty clear that Manuel and Stevie didn't seem to have any chemistry. I love Stevie too, but I wouldn't be shocked by this sort of move. Stevie missed the start of camp, ej the last half. They similar both missed chunks of the season (and not at the same time). They really didnt work together much
Coach Tuesday Posted April 24, 2014 Posted April 24, 2014 Yes but there's a big difference here. SJ is the Bill's best receiver only becasue they don't all that many good receiveres. They drafted Woods last year who could become better in a year or two, today not yet. Replacing Stevie with Watkins or Evens is a step up, maybe not this season yet, but give it a year or two at most and the Bill's are ahead of the curve. On top of that , you have all the off field antics wit hSJ. Alot was being written late last year about Stevie not being a Doug M kind of guy. So if Trading Stevie and the 9th to move up to 5 or 4, maybe even throw in a 3rd or 4th, I'd make that move. I wouldn't want to give up draft picks to move up, but would make that move It doesn't matter if he's the BEST WR or not - that is a total red herring. There is no arguing that he is talented. Teams do not normally get better by getting rid of talented players. The Bills have a history of letting talent walk out the door, whether for draft picks or nothing in return. In many, many cases, the fans are cheering on the departures. For once, just for once, can we stockpile talent and try to "win now"?
papazoid Posted April 24, 2014 Posted April 24, 2014 Depends on what Buffalo gets in return. I wouldn't let Stevie go for anything less than a 3rd round pick. Anything less simply wouldn't be worth it, IMHO. Really, isn't just about every player on the trading block if the price is right? the bills would take a 7th just to unload his contract without having to take a dead money hit. they wont cut him, but they would trade him. cap hit: 2014 - $8.5 2015 - $8.8 2016 - $8.9
NoSaint Posted April 24, 2014 Posted April 24, 2014 the bills would take a 7th just to unload his contract without having to take a dead money hit. they wont cut him, but they would trade him. cap hit: 2014 - $8.5 2015 - $8.8 2016 - $8.9 They would still eat some dead money.
Best Player Available Posted April 24, 2014 Posted April 24, 2014 SJ13 is overpaid for his production and inability to take a game over. But yes he did catch a game winner last year. But, that's what he is paid for. The Nix regime crapped the bed on his extension just like the QB they overpaid and ironically cap wise are still paying for. Blaming God, and saying that a dropped pass in the first quarter is no big deal(paraphrasing here). And being the best tweeter on the team simply is not "leadership" But I get it, the younger fans like all the buzz a 7th round pick brings. With his smart phone. As for him loving Buffalo, well he blew off a signing session (paid) in Rochester his teammate a true Bill Fred-EX covered his silly ass on that one and stayed for an extra couple of hours. SJ13 is a perfect example of 14 years of fail. A slightly above average non clutch player that is a over glorified, over payed slot receiver. Flame Away.
Johnny Hammersticks Posted April 24, 2014 Posted April 24, 2014 I could see Carolina as a potential suitor. Not sure what it would take to pair with SJ13 to get their 1st round pick (28). Maybe SJ13 and our 4th rounder?
Campy Posted April 24, 2014 Posted April 24, 2014 Again, if the objective is winning, you don't let your best Safety walk, and then draft a replacement for him in the 1st round, and you don't get rid of your best receiver, and draft a replacement for him in the 1st round. All you're doing is spinning the wheels. It makes absolutely no sense for the Bills to trade Stevie Johnson and then look to draft someone to replace him. But the Bills were not guilty of that - they made a strong offer to keep Byrd. Had they low-balled him, it would be different, but the Bills did not "let" their best safety walk. I always thought Stevie was in over his head as a #1 WR from a talent perspective. I'm interested in watching him healthy and focused playing in the slot. I think he could thrive there but if the Bills decide to move him I don't think it would be the end o the world.
Canadian Bills Fan Posted April 24, 2014 Posted April 24, 2014 They would still eat some dead money. How so if they trade him? I thought if they trade a player they arent on the hook for his salary? CBF
Kellyto83TD Posted April 24, 2014 Posted April 24, 2014 I agree. Sometimes I think it is better to view the players as nameless. Player X has a performance level and a cost! Emotions need to be taken out of it. If a deal makes you better, you do it. I agree. Sometimes I think it is better to view the players as nameless. Player X has a performance level and a cost! Emotions need to be taken out of it. If a deal makes you better, you do it. Exactly, cant put it better. Fans as a whole can't get the business aspect. Take away Free agency and we can go back to buying jerseys that last 10+ years. Stevie is nothing but a feel good story, some teams wouldnt' have put up with his **** this far and I cant think of any that would have extended him the money the Bills did as soon as they did. That said, he isn't worth his BS and he sure as heck isn't worth his salary. I trade his butt asap in this draft. As for as we need at least a 3rd, where did we draft him? Oh thats right... so how about we not worry if its a 4th rounder since we can find guys as talented that low in the draft
Maury Ballstein Posted April 24, 2014 Posted April 24, 2014 Exactly, cant put it better. Fans as a whole can't get the business aspect. Take away Free agency and we can go back to buying jerseys that last 10+ years. Stevie is nothing but a feel good story, some teams wouldnt' have put up with his **** this far and I cant think of any that would have extended him the money the Bills did as soon as they did. That said, he isn't worth his BS and he sure as heck isn't worth his salary. I trade his butt asap in this draft. As for as we need at least a 3rd, where did we draft him? Oh thats right... so how about we not worry if its a 4th rounder since we can find guys as talented that low in the draft I hate all of the bills, but like to post on bills websites for some reason. Time to blow the dog whistle for the Stevie trolls version 22.3.
Manther Posted April 24, 2014 Posted April 24, 2014 I am not a Steve Johnson hater. I think, If he gets his **** straight, that Mike Williams is going to be a pretty significant addition to the Bills roster. With Williams, Woods (seems to be getting overlooked by many), Goodwin...and to a lesser extent Graham, Hogan, etc etc...the Bills have a pretty decent set of receivers, with or without Steve Johnson. So, if the Bills could get something useful in return, I think I would be open to the idea of trading him. However, I just don't see that he, on his own, is going to net anything significant. We have seen countless guys over the last few years, with better credentials (perceived or real) than Steve Johnson net close to nothing in a trade. That doesn't mean, at all, to say I think he sucks, or has no value. I have little doubt, if the Bills released him, he would sign somewhere quickly and be productive....New England comes to mind. New Orleans.. I disregarded and discredited your comments when you said Graham was a decent receiver.
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 24, 2014 Posted April 24, 2014 I am as big a Stevie fan as anyone but if the cost for Watkins was SJ13 and #9 I wouldn't be able to accept fast enough. I am all in on Sammy and wouldn't hesitate to give the 9, 41 and next years #1 to get him. I don't know man. I like Watkins but he hasn't proven a thing in the NFL. Of course there's a ton of potential but as Parcells says, "Potential means you haven't done (crap)." Watkins got a lot of yards on short passes. It's one thing to do that against Boston College, it's another to do that against the Pats. Stevie has proven himself against Revis and Sherman. Plus, do you really want a receiving core where Mike Williams is your veteran leader? At the same point, maybe Stevie should move on where he'll be appreciate by more of the fans. The dude has worked himself from a 7th rounder into a 3 time 1,000 yard receiver with a QB who struggled to throw the ball 10 yards downfield. The best part is if they move Stevie or CJ, the same people who wanted them gone, will be the first people complaining after they thrive in their new situations.
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