CodeMonkey Posted April 23, 2014 Posted April 23, 2014 Disagree. IF you eliminate all Spiller's long runs, he sucks. I can see your sarcasm tags But you are not far off. Nine runs of no gain and one run of 50 yards gives you a 5 YPC average. The 50 yard run is fun for the fans to watch and the 5 YPC is a nice stat, but mostly you see 3 and outs like that. Spiller far from sucks and still has a lot of potential. And if he could block, was big enough to be a workhorse like Fred, and would go north and south and stop all the no gains or losses dancing to the sideline the Bills would have something there. But so far that hasn't happened. If they could get good trade value for Spiller I'd be happy. But I don't think they will and I don't want the Bills to just give him away.
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 23, 2014 Posted April 23, 2014 I can see your sarcasm tags But you are not far off. Nine runs of no gain and one run of 50 yards gives you a 5 YPC average. The 50 yard run is fun for the fans to watch and the 5 YPC is a nice stat, but mostly you see 3 and outs like that. Spiller far from sucks and still has a lot of potential. And if he could block, was big enough to be a workhorse like Fred, and would go north and south and stop all the no gains or losses dancing to the sideline the Bills would have something there. But so far that hasn't happened. If they could get good trade value for Spiller I'd be happy. But I don't think they will and I don't want the Bills to just give him away. Most negative runs in NFL history: Barry Sanders. Spiller ain't Barry Sanders, but he's about as close as the Bills have had since Thurman.
Chilly Posted April 23, 2014 Posted April 23, 2014 Well seems he is bent to head out the door after next year It does? I listened to him on Sirius nfl radio today, he sounded pretty committed to the team and hoping they can work something out. It seems that the "public perception" around the NFL, is that Spiller is not utilized properly, or is at least under-utililized in Buffalo. I lean toward that opinion too. Not sure if his spotty use in 2013 was the result of playcalling, or his ongoing injury situation, but we saw in 2012 that the guy can be a major playmaker. And, even with injury, he showed a some good stuff in 2013. It's hard to properly utilize someone that has a high ankle sprain all season
bigK14094 Posted April 23, 2014 Posted April 23, 2014 CJ needs an agent....and he knows it. Of course....and he has his objectives. Money, winning, etc. Who knows how that plays out. I don't think a trade is in the works, but, for the right deal, anybody is available.
KOKBILLS Posted April 23, 2014 Posted April 23, 2014 Just stop with the Spiller hate.. My God, outside of Freddy who on this team exemplifies solid work ethic and team ownership than Spiller? He embraced the Bills when drafted, and sat behind Lynch and Fred patiently waiting his turn. The guy is a quality human being, and every bit a Bill than any other player in History. I say we lock him up now while the price for running backs is at an all time low. Tim I don't disagree if they can get Spiller at a decent rate...It's not going to be an easy decision though...It's going to depend greatly on Marrone and Hackett and how they view CJ...I like CJ a lot...Always have (followed his career at Clemson very closely and saw him live a couple times), even though I was very much against the Bills Drafting him (I just don't believe stockpiling talent, especially at RB with 1st round picks, is effective team building)...But that's all the past now...In my mind the question still remains whether or not CJ is truly a feature back, or if he is much more suited to a Darren Sproles-type of role...Which a heck of an important role on a good team...Anyway...We'll see...
CodeMonkey Posted April 23, 2014 Posted April 23, 2014 (edited) Most negative runs in NFL history: Barry Sanders. Spiller ain't Barry Sanders, but he's about as close as the Bills have had since Thurman. How many super bowls did Barry Sanders play in? I'll save you the Google, zero. Obviously that's not all on him, but as a key player he did factor into it considerably. Flash players are fun to watch and probably sell seats, but that's about it. And FWIW, I'd take Thurman over Sanders or Spiller any day. Edited April 23, 2014 by CodeMonkey
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 23, 2014 Posted April 23, 2014 How many super bowls did Barry Sanders play in? I'll save you the Google, zero. Obviously that's not all on him, but as a key player he did factor into it considerably. Flash players are fun to watch and probably sell seats, but that's about it. And FWIW, I'd take Thurman over Sanders or Spiller any day. Come on man. Those Lions' teams were terrible besides Sanders. Wayne Fontes, Rodney Peete, Erik Kramer, garbage o line. Sanders was the main reason those teams had any success. I love Thurman but imagine Barry on the Bills? Or Barry on those Cowboys teams? Very few rbs did more with less. And it's kinda my point on Spiller. Imagine him playing with the Saints. Teams knew Fitz struggled to throw downfield, so they loaded the box. And in 2012, with teams putting at least 8 guys in the box, he averaged 6 ypc and got 1,200 yards. Sometimes Bills fans overrate players. For some reason, there are a lot of people who underrate Spiller. He is very, very good.
CodeMonkey Posted April 23, 2014 Posted April 23, 2014 Come on man. Those Lions' teams were terrible besides Sanders. Wayne Fontes, Rodney Peete, Erik Kramer, garbage o line. Sanders was the main reason those teams had any success. I love Thurman but imagine Barry on the Bills? Or Barry on those Cowboys teams? Very few rbs did more with less. And it's kinda my point on Spiller. Imagine him playing with the Saints. Teams knew Fitz struggled to throw downfield, so they loaded the box. And in 2012, with teams putting at least 8 guys in the box, he averaged 6 ypc and got 1,200 yards. Sometimes Bills fans overrate players. For some reason, there are a lot of people who underrate Spiller. He is very, very good. And I may well be one of them. But I see great speed and quickness to go along with his great attitude and apparent work ethic. But so far, aside from a few spectacular long highlight reel runs, I see nothing else so far. It's probably because I see little overall value in a flash situational running back and would much much rather have someone like a Thurman or even a Lynch who produce consistently play after play. Maybe I can't see the forest for the trees. But in my opinion (which could change at any time if Spiller suddenly "gets it") I see people that are very high on Spiller as in the category you mentioned of a Bills fan who is overrating this player. Please God let Spiller prove me wrong this season
Luxy312 Posted April 23, 2014 Posted April 23, 2014 Disagree. IF you eliminate all Spiller's long runs, he sucks. Well if you eliminate all of Barry Sanders long runs, he would be pretty awful too. He was caught more than any RB in history for NEGATIVE yards. Point here is that you can't just say "ignore the positive and just count everything else". That's the ultimate in bad statistics and not reflective of the entire body of work of the player.
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 23, 2014 Posted April 23, 2014 And I may well be one of them. But I see great speed and quickness to go along with his great attitude and apparent work ethic. But so far, aside from a few spectacular long highlight reel runs, I see nothing else so far. It's probably because I see little overall value in a flash situational running back and would much much rather have someone like a Thurman or even a Lynch who produce consistently play after play. Maybe I can't see the forest for the trees. But in my opinion (which could change at any time if Spiller suddenly "gets it") I see people that are very high on Spiller as in the category you mentioned of a Bills fan who is overrating this player. Please God let Spiller prove me wrong this season So 1200 yards at 6 ypc and 10 yards per catch didn't show you anything? You don't think Spiller won't be a monster playing with Kelly, Reed, Lofton, our 90s oline instead of Fitz, Stevie (who I love), David Nelson, Donald Jones? As great as Thurman was, he was helped because our offense was absolutely loaded. Who do you think NE game plans to stop when they play the Bills?
CodeMonkey Posted April 23, 2014 Posted April 23, 2014 (edited) So 1200 yards at 6 ypc and 10 yards per catch didn't show you anything? You don't think Spiller won't be a monster playing with Kelly, Reed, Lofton, our 90s oline instead of Fitz, Stevie (who I love), David Nelson, Donald Jones? As great as Thurman was, he was helped because our offense was absolutely loaded. Who do you think NE game plans to stop when they play the Bills? Fred mostly I would think. But probably Spiller a little to try and make sure he doesn't get around the corner and actually make positive yards during his situational carries. And maybe BellyCheat dials up some additional blitzes while he is in knowing he sure as hell isn't going to pick up the blitzer. Look, you see lots of potential still in Spiller. I think as a RB he should have produced a hell of a lot more, and more consistently, than he has for as long as he has been on the Bills. We disagree and that's cool. And FWIW, I hope you are right. Edited April 23, 2014 by CodeMonkey
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 23, 2014 Posted April 23, 2014 Fred mostly I would think. But probably Spiller a little to try and make sure he doesn't get around the corner and actually make positive yards during his situational carries. And maybe BellyCheat dials up some additional blitzes while he is in knowing he sure as hell isn't going to pick up the blitzer. Look, you see lots of potential still in Spiller. I think as a RB he should have produced a hell of a lot more, and more consistently, than he has for as long as he has been on the Bills. We disagree and that's cool. And FWIW, I hope you are right. I love Fred. Best 2nd string rb in the NFL. But Spiller still outrushed him with a high ankle sprain. Anything less than a 1st round pick for him would be a mistake. He would explode on a team with more offensive talent. Agree to disagree.
Buftex Posted April 23, 2014 Posted April 23, 2014 It does? I listened to him on Sirius nfl radio today, he sounded pretty committed to the team and hoping they can work something out. It's hard to properly utilize someone that has a high ankle sprain all season Yes...I held out that possibility. But, since he was playing with that injury most of the season, why didn't they try to throw more screen passes to him in open space, like Chan did the year before? His receiving yards and number of receptions dropped a bit from 2012 to 2013. I may be completely off, but I didn't see that he lost that much straight ahead speed, despite the ankle sprain...he did a lot of that east-west running for no yards, it seemed, in part, because he just couldn't cut as quickly as the year before. In retrospect, maybe they should have forced him to sit some, early in the season. .
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 23, 2014 Posted April 23, 2014 Yes...I held out that possibility. But, since he was playing with that injury most of the season, why didn't they try to throw more screen passes to him in open space, like Chan did the year before? His receiving yards and number of receptions dropped a bit from 2012 to 2013. I may be completely off, but I didn't see that he lost that much straight ahead speed, despite the ankle sprain...he did a lot of that east-west running for no yards, it seemed, in part, because he just couldn't cut as quickly as the year before. In retrospect, maybe they should have forced him to sit some, early in the season. . That was my biggest issue with Hackett. You need to get Spiller 15-20 touches and catches are better because it puts him in space and limits the hits he takes. I pray Hackett is studying film of 2012 Spiller.
Maury Ballstein Posted April 23, 2014 Posted April 23, 2014 Everyone forgets about 2012 when spiller crushed it. High ankle sprain = trade him for a 4th so we can draft slappy mcpappy So much fail for the spiller haters. Jmo.
Buftex Posted April 23, 2014 Posted April 23, 2014 That was my biggest issue with Hackett. You need to get Spiller 15-20 touches and catches are better because it puts him in space and limits the hits he takes. I pray Hackett is studying film of 2012 Spiller. Like I said earlier (I think it was in this thread), I am still not completely sold on the coaches, but I don't necessarily dislike them either. Hackett did a commendable job, in some ways, playing musical QB's every few weeks. But, there were times when it seemed like logic dictated things that they weren't actually doing. Havining a gameplan and sticking to it is commendable, but so too, I think, is being able to change on the fly. Sounds as though Marrone went out and got Hackett a little more help this season...hopefully that pays off.
Mr. WEO Posted April 23, 2014 Posted April 23, 2014 Wow, people pointing out all of those bad runs by BARRY SANDERS as they strain to reach some sort of equivalence with....CJ Spiller? I've seen it all now.
Luxy312 Posted April 23, 2014 Posted April 23, 2014 Wow, people pointing out all of those bad runs by BARRY SANDERS as they strain to reach some sort of equivalence with....CJ Spiller? I've seen it all now. They're simply pointing it out because it is true. Pointed out by many - In 4 seasons, he's averaged 5.1 YPC. Response - Yeh, because that's skewed by long runs. Further pointed out - Barry Sanders was caught more for a loss than any back in history and averaged 5.1 YPC. His average is skewed by his long runs. Response - OK, nevermind, you can't compare Spiller to anyone because he sucks. Is that REALLY all anyone has? I guess a good defense for the negative nancy's is no defense at all. LOL.
Astrobot Posted April 23, 2014 Posted April 23, 2014 Wow it kind of irritates me that Ricky bobby made those comments. Could have just said he's hiring a new agent and left it at that. Ok then, for a little fun lets say spiller and #9 for a top five pick. Mack or Watkins anyone? Don't forget with this scenario RB is a MUST in the 2nd or 3rd. Carlos Hyde ? Hmmm http://www.drafttek.com/teamneeds2014.asp Given different Team Needs at RB, and the draft order they're in, I don't see Spiller's value. It'd be better to keep him. Houston P5 St.Louis P6 Jackson P9 Cleveland P6 Oakland P6 Atlanta P5 T-Bay P6 Minneso P6 Buffalo P3
Mr. WEO Posted April 23, 2014 Posted April 23, 2014 They're simply pointing it out because it is true. Pointed out by many - In 4 seasons, he's averaged 5.1 YPC. Response - Yeh, because that's skewed by long runs. Further pointed out - Barry Sanders was caught more for a loss than any back in history and averaged 5.1 YPC. His average is skewed by his long runs. Response - OK, nevermind, you can't compare Spiller to anyone because he sucks. Is that REALLY all anyone has? I guess a good defense for the negative nancy's is no defense at all. LOL. I don't think anyone is saying "Spiller sucks", but it's pointless to compare him to arguably the greatest running back in NFL history. Only a person who never saw Sanders play would even try to make such a comparison. In the legendary 2012 season, Spiller had games of 88, 70, 70, 39, 37, and 77 yards--and the corresponding "YPC" in those games were 7.33, 5.83, 7.78, 6.5, 5.29, 5.5. In his first 4 seasons, Sanders had 1470, 1304, 1548 and 1352 yards. In 10 years, he ran for at least 1300 per season 9 times--he had one year with only 1100 yards but only played 11 games. He averaged more than 300 carries per year in his career. He carried the ball 343 times in his 10th and last year. In his 9th year, he had 2053 yards for an average of 6.1 YPC (128 YPG). He kept up that pace over 335 carries (which is more than Spiller carried in 2011 and 2012 combined. You will never see Spiller carry the ball 300 times (in one season). You won't see Spiller dodging player after player in the backfield and then running over guys downfield. You will never see a team depend on CJ Spiller for their offense. Sanders did all of these things, and because Spiller can't or doesn't does not mean he "sucks". But you just can't compare two football players who are absolutely nothing alike and form a convincing argument about either of them.
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