The wisdom of the wall

[YoloinOhio]

On paper, we sure look like a better team.

 

But how come we still finish at about 6-10?

QB (s) got hurt.

 

It's funny how opinions can be so different. That's EXACTLY what I like about him! Every time I watch him play, I see Drew Brees. In my opinion, if he were 3 inches taller, he'd be the top QB taken, maybe even 1st overall pick. I find it shocking that 2-3 inches in height can affect a players draft status by 3-5 rounds. The game has evolved. It's more about quick thinking and decision making than it is about simply overpowering your opponent. Just my opinion.

Yes and no. Certain teams will shy away from him because he may not be as effective in bad weather (wind/snow/sleet). He played at UGA so has not been asked to do that thus far. He has really small hands (9 1/8) which could negatively affect him in say Cleveland or Minn who both need QBs. Minn is getting a roof, I know, but they still need to play in GB and Chicago every year. At least Russell Wilson, while being shorter by QB standards, is thickly built and has huge hands. Edited April 21, 2014 by YoloinOhio

[C.Biscuit97]

I remember a lot of people here loved Jimmy Clausen. There was talk of Ryan Nassib at #8 too.

 

There are some very knowledgable posters here. Some fans' opinions are just as good as "experts" like Kiper and McShay. The problem with the majority of fans is they are too emotional. Some fans put 14 years of frustration on young players and would make emotional decisions. Guys like Spiller, McKelvin. Gilmore, Dareus would have been given up on. We are seeing this already with Manuel, who is learning the hardest position in sports and struggled with injuries. Patience doesn't exist for some fans and that kills team building.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

Did you happen to read the article by Chris Brown reporting about how Buffalo Bills scouted Kiko Alonso ?

It should be required reading for all us fans and a sticky ( ?) .

This story on it's own merit ( C B yea i know ) tells a fine tale about the new Brandon Whaley regime if you peer closely .

I think these guys are more on the ball than we are used to.

 

I hope this is true. But I will say that I have read similar pieces on guys throughout the years (lief Larson, CJ ah you, mike jasper, kyle williams, etc). Some guys panned out, most didn't.

 

I think the bills scouts have been pretty good at hitting on some diamonds in the rough. The problem seems to be the 1st round picks, where they have been way too cute.

 

 

[Dorkington]

QB (s) got hurt.

 

Seems injuries are an excuse every year.

[YoloinOhio]

Seems injuries are an excuse every year.

IMO, there are excuses and there are reasons.

[finn]

I remember a lot of people here loved Jimmy Clausen. There was talk of Ryan Nassib at #8 too.

 

There are some very knowledgable posters here. Some fans' opinions are just as good as "experts" like Kiper and McShay. The problem with the majority of fans is they are too emotional. Some fans put 14 years of frustration on young players and would make emotional decisions. Guys like Spiller, McKelvin. Gilmore, Dareus would have been given up on. We are seeing this already with Manuel, who is learning the hardest position in sports and struggled with injuries. Patience doesn't exist for some fans and that kills team building.

 

I think you're right, but I've always been impressed by how savvy many (I want to say most) Bills fans are. For example, they know that an O-line takes time to build, in terms of both chemistry and individual player development. They're even pretty patient with quarterbacks. Fitzpatrick, Edwards, Losman, Rob Johnson... all of them got time to show if they had it or not. (Ironically, it was Flutie, arguably the player who could have taken us farthest, who got yanked prematurely.)

 

I realize we're talking about a pretty nebulous quantity: the wisdom of the fans in aggregate. It's a bit silly. In terms of the draft, JR in Pittsburgh nailed it: OBD might have fared better by selecting the board consensus just to avoid the impulse to get cute. (Sometimes I groan aloud when I think of Maybin.) No one has mentioned examples of the Bills--or anyone else--making a surprise selection (that is, a lot higher than expected) and being correct.

[YoloinOhio]

How hard is it to draft a QB? This guy went #1 (consensus)

Sam Monson ‏@PFF_Sam 9m

Biggest single problem I have with Sam Bradford is accuracy. As prospect he was supposed to be laser-guided. In NFL he just isn't. At all

[machine gun kelly]

Yes, we have.

 

I cant even remember the last time the Bills drafted the player that this board wanted in the first round. Dareus maybe???

 

But nowadays, i really do trust Whaley. I do think that he is at least as smart as this board.

 

Well said. Whaley's hand was in the last two drafts as Buddy was on his way out. Contrary to a number of people here, Buddy was also better than everyone before him back to Butler. Butler may have outspent the cap, but he picked winners.

 

If you think about Gillmore, Glenn, Kiko, I think EJ, R. Woods, Goodwin, etc., these were solid picks.

[Captain Hindsight]

I remember a lot of people here loved Jimmy Clausen.

And we just kept passing on Clausen! TWICE!

 

He would have helped us bottom out!

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

Well if you graded every team on that same scale, almost everyone would be terrible. Except maybe NE, Indy, and Green Bay. And in NE's case was more luck in finding Brady in the 6th. I think QB is the worst position to grade a front office by as there's not nearly enough QB's to go around so everyone takes huge gambles there, and maybe 15% turn out to be true franchise QB's, and of those 15% most were dumb luck, or you had the 1st/2nd overall pick.

 

So grade him on that if you want, but understand that it's about 90% luck if you find one.

 

 

 

Where we are as a franchise he needs to get QB right. That is basically all I will grade any of our GMs based on at this point.

[The Plunge]

QB (s) got hurt.

 

Yes and no. Certain teams will shy away from him because he may not be as effective in bad weather (wind/snow/sleet). He played at UGA so has not been asked to do that thus far. He has really small hands (9 1/8) which could negatively affect him in say Cleveland or Minn who both need QBs. Minn is getting a roof, I know, but they still need to play in GB and Chicago every year. At least Russell Wilson, while being shorter by QB standards, is thickly built and has huge hands.

 

That's a very interesting point. One I had not yet considered. I know that one of the things that they liked about EJ was that he has big hands. Great insight! But let's dig in on that. With EJ you have a guy with big hands, lots of raw ability, but has some serious short-comings (most notably, accuracy on passes downfield that require a bit of touch). For me, I'd place more weight on the skills required to read a defence and throw it accurately downfield than I do on someone's ability to hold onto the ball in the snow. How long has it been since we had a QB that TRULY understood how to play the position? That's what draws me to Murray. He sees the field, makes great decisions, knows where every player on the field is and can throw it downfield. That is what I look for in a QB. I place more weight on that than I would on any combine stat, height, or hand size. But that's just me.

 

Also, should be noted that Blake Bortles hands are 9 3/8"s. Not much bigger.

[YoloinOhio]

That's a very interesting point. One I had not yet considered. I know that one of the things that they liked about EJ was that he has big hands. Great insight! But let's dig in on that. With EJ you have a guy with big hands, lots of raw ability, but has some serious short-comings (most notably, accuracy on passes downfield that require a bit of touch). For me, I'd place more weight on the skills required to read a defence and throw it accurately downfield than I do on someone's ability to hold onto the ball in the snow. How long has it been since we had a QB that TRULY understood how to play the position? That's what draws me to Murray. He sees the field, makes great decisions, knows where every player on the field is and can throw it downfield. That is what I look for in a QB. I place more weight on that than I would on any combine stat, height, or hand size. But that's just me.

 

Also, should be noted that Blake Bortles hands are 9 3/8"s. Not much bigger.

Interesting considering his overall size.

[C.Biscuit97]

That's a very interesting point. One I had not yet considered. I know that one of the things that they liked about EJ was that he has big hands. Great insight! But let's dig in on that. With EJ you have a guy with big hands, lots of raw ability, but has some serious short-comings (most notably, accuracy on passes downfield that require a bit of touch). For me, I'd place more weight on the skills required to read a defence and throw it accurately downfield than I do on someone's ability to hold onto the ball in the snow. How long has it been since we had a QB that TRULY understood how to play the position? That's what draws me to Murray. He sees the field, makes great decisions, knows where every player on the field is and can throw it downfield. That is what I look for in a QB. I place more weight on that than I would on any combine stat, height, or hand size. But that's just me.

 

Also, should be noted that Blake Bortles hands are 9 3/8"s. Not much bigger.

 

Fair point but it is different playing QB in Buffalo than in NO or SD. Big Ben isn't the most accurate passer but he makes a lot of plays in bad weather than other QBs can't make. Ej in the 2nd Jets game (I was there and it was terrible weather) was very impressive.

[YoloinOhio]

Fair point but it is different playing QB in Buffalo than in NO or SD. Big Ben isn't the most accurate passer but he makes a lot of plays in bad weather than other QBs can't make. Ej in the 2nd Jets game (I was there and it was terrible weather) was very impressive.

This describes Kaepernick and Cam Newton as well... IMO.

[The Plunge]

This describes Kaepernick and Cam Newton as well... IMO.

 

Would you like to guess at Kaep's hand size? I'll give you a hint. It's EXACTLY the same size as Aaron Murray!

 

Newton's hands are 9 7/8"s. So 3/4 of an inch larger. Can't seem to find the number on Ben.

[YoloinOhio]

Would you like to guess at Kaep's hand size? I'll give you a hint. It's EXACTLY the same size as Aaron Murray!

 

Newton's hands are 9 7/8"s. So 3/4 of an inch larger. Can't seem to find the number on Ben.

Ha - another Yolo theory debunked.

[The Plunge]

Ha - another Yolo theory debunked.

 

Ha ha!

[3rdand12]

That's a very interesting point. One I had not yet considered. I know that one of the things that they liked about EJ was that he has big hands. Great insight! But let's dig in on that. With EJ you have a guy with big hands, lots of raw ability, but has some serious short-comings (most notably, accuracy on passes downfield that require a bit of touch). For me, I'd place more weight on the skills required to read a defence and throw it accurately downfield than I do on someone's ability to hold onto the ball in the snow. How long has it been since we had a QB that TRULY understood how to play the position? That's what draws me to Murray. He sees the field, makes great decisions, knows where every player on the field is and can throw it downfield. That is what I look for in a QB. I place more weight on that than I would on any combine stat, height, or hand size. But that's just me.

 

Also, should be noted that Blake Bortles hands are 9 3/8"s. Not much bigger.

I think this brings us back to a very important feature , and this may be the tricky bit.

How does the player transition to the NFL ?

Because it s not just the player , its the team concept of him .

And how they help him succeed.

I found it very inteteresting the moment Nate came downstairs . I thought the coaches were serious about getting their proverbial footing with EJ in particular.

A great response to a difficult situation .

Good points gents.

please carry on

[The Plunge]

I think this brings us back to a very important feature , and this may be the tricky bit.

How does the player transition to the NFL ?

Because it s not just the player , its the team concept of him .

And how they help him succeed.

I found it very inteteresting the moment Nate came downstairs . I thought the coaches were serious about getting their proverbial footing with EJ in particular.

A great response to a difficult situation .

Good points gents.

please carry on

 

You make a great point. So much of a player's success is dependant on the supporting cast around them. There are a pile of HOF'ers that got lucky early on in their career by being in the right place at the right time. Also, you could probably find a number of players who WOULD'VE been good, if only they were on a different team. I always thought Lee Evans, for example, would've been an all world WR if he had been drafted by Indy instead of Buffalo.

 

I also agree that they seem committed to EJ. But what if EJ isn't the guy? How long do they wait? I know there is speculation about getting another back-up to play behind EJ. We already have a SERVICEABLE back up in Lewis, but Lewis isn't going to be a long term option as a starter (IMO). I would like a back-up who has the potential to be the MAN if it is ultimately determined that EJ isn't the right guy. In order to do this, you need to draft someone with long term starter POTENTIAL, and get that guy in a mid to late round so that he doesn't create an unwanted QB controversy on day one. I believe Murray does that.

 

Many experts believe that Murray COULD be a very good QB. If we can get him in the 4th round, it would be absolutely perfect.

 

Scenario #1: EJ turns out to be the man. We've spent a 4th rounder on a back-up QB. Good idea.

 

Scenario #2: EJ eventually turns out to be no good. We have a QB with POTENTIAL waiting, preparing to play. You give him the shot at being the man before spending another 1st rounder on a possible QB - an experiment that will take 2-3 years before a conclusive answer.

 

All I know is this: you can't possibly win in this league on a regular basis without having a QB who understands how to play the game and is capable of making all of the throws. I am cheering hard for EJ to be that guy. But I want a plan B. And that plan B needs to have the potential to be the long term solution at the QB position. In what is one of the deeper QB drafts in a while, I believe this year represents an ideal scenario to add a QB in the 3rd-5th round who could ultimately be a key part of this franchise, should EJ falter.

 

By the way, I have intentionally avoided being active on message boards because I have seen too many ridiculous conversations on here. This is really the first time I've weighed in. This has been a well thought out, enlightened debate between some intelligent football fans. Thanks guys! I'm really enjoying this!

 

Go Bills!

[3rdand12]

Well let me put an end to the intelligent part right this moment : )

 

I think we hold em this year. If Ej does not pan out significantly this season we go for all the marbles next season.

I am going to use my unusually extraordinary patience and trust in Marrone Hackett and now Hostler and the boys to make this work.

He plays poorly again next year i have no qualms moving on.

here is the questionable intelligience part . i think Thad has an upside. Not a franchise guy. But could keep the team in it if EJ gets another boo boo knee .

Thanks for the good postings brother !

Welcome to the family