BillnutinHouston Posted April 18, 2014 Posted April 18, 2014 If anyone bought the bills and it is known that they will move them I would hope no one buys a ticket or any merchandise and all local sponsors pull out and leave them with as much debt as possible. All my ties and expenditures would immediately end, and I'm sure most would do the same. It's hard to envision a scenario where the current lease, a quick sale, Schumer's involvement AND an owner wanting to relocate the team all come together successfully.
FluffHead Posted April 18, 2014 Posted April 18, 2014 People that I take serious told me very seriously that if a person seriously wants to move the bills that something serious would obviously happen. You serious?
CodeMonkey Posted April 18, 2014 Posted April 18, 2014 It's hard to envision a scenario where the current lease, a quick sale, Schumer's involvement AND an owner wanting to relocate the team all come together successfully. No it's really not. They may let the lease run out while they build a new stadium, or break it if that is economically feasible for them. This would probably not be a quick sale because it's not like Mr. Wilson's passing was a complete surprise. Any potential buyers as well as the NFL has had years to get things lined up. And Senator Chuck is irrelevant in this process. He will make noise I'm sure, but at the end of the day that's all it will be, I still think we have not even heard the name of the next Bills owner yet. But the scenario you cannot envision is certainly possible.
HalftimeAdjustment Posted April 18, 2014 Posted April 18, 2014 We'll win the Super Bowl as the Bills last game as the Buffalo Bills! I'd take that over never winning. "Leave the trophy and get out."
Formerly Allan in MD Posted April 18, 2014 Posted April 18, 2014 Sorry and no offense to you and your source but I still question JBJ's finances. Forbes has his net worth at around $200 million. If the bid is $1 billion, the NFL says controlling owner must own at least 30%, so $300 million. Seems he's a bit short. Sure, you might say he can borrow the money. But the NFL also says you can only finance $200 million in the purchase of a team. So JBJ and his group need to come up with $800 million in cash and JBJ himself would have to come up $300 million. Not saying it couldn't happen, but that is a really tall order. Who says he would be identified as the controlling owner?
HalftimeAdjustment Posted April 18, 2014 Posted April 18, 2014 i respect this post. But I completely disagree with this comment. "How many enterprises are there that are guaranteed to make money and increase in value the way an NFL team is?" Technically you are correct but that's only for people that aren't already $1Billion+ invested. I don't care what team it is. Your not going to make back $1Billion in your lifetime from owning an NFL team. The owners now do it because they either bought in before these Billion dollar franchises came about, or because they are a fan of always wanting a team and money is no object to them. You don't need to make back $1 billion. You own an asset that is worth approximately $1 billion. If you want the money back you can probably cash it in. It's similar to buying real estate or even gold. In my opinion less risky than gold however. There is a chance that it will increase in value and a small chance it will decrease. There is virtually no chance of losing the $1 billion. Also the $1 billion is worthless anyhow unless you invest it or buy something. So whomever has $1 billion can own some other business, a bunch of buildings, or the Bills. The Bills may not be the highest performing investment but you don't have to be completely uncaring about money to select them. You may lose $30m/year in opportunity cost compared to a better investment, but you do become an NFL owner.
BillnutinHouston Posted April 18, 2014 Posted April 18, 2014 No it's really not. They may let the lease run out while they build a new stadium, or break it if that is economically feasible for them. This would probably not be a quick sale because it's not like Mr. Wilson's passing was a complete surprise. Any potential buyers as well as the NFL has had years to get things lined up. And Senator Chuck is irrelevant in this process. He will make noise I'm sure, but at the end of the day that's all it will be, I obviously disagree. Any city building a new stadium for the relocated Bills would have to do so without even a tentative deal from the team, as the lease forbids the team from even planning a relocation during the lease term. Or do you think an out of town owner will easily win a court battle with Erie County, then pay the $400 M in damages and then get a stadium built? Seems like a bridge too far to me. Schumer's relationship with Goodell and his position on the Senate Finance Committee puts him in a position to threaten the NFL's tax exempt status. Don't you think that that tax exempt status is worth more to the NFL than any revenue deficiency caused by a Buffalo-based team? The NFL knows where it's bread is buttered. And we've not even discussed any provisions of the Wilson estate which could favor a local owner. But I guess I'm not as imaginative as you are, Code.
Dean Cain Posted April 18, 2014 Posted April 18, 2014 I obviously disagree. Any city building a new stadium for the relocated Bills would have to do so without even a tentative deal from the team, as the lease forbids the team from even planning a relocation during the lease term. Or do you think an out of town owner will easily win a court battle with Erie County, then pay the $400 M in damages and then get a stadium built? Seems like a bridge too far to me. Schumer's relationship with Goodell and his position on the Senate Finance Committee puts him in a position to threaten the NFL's tax exempt status. Don't you think that that tax exempt status is worth more to the NFL than any revenue deficiency caused by a Buffalo-based team? The NFL knows where it's bread is buttered. And we've not even discussed any provisions of the Wilson estate which could favor a local owner. But I guess I'm not as imaginative as you are, Code. Agree with all your points. The thing that bothers me is Schumer and Donald Trump coming together on anything. Trump used to be a maverick independent who seems like he has taken camp in libertarian wing of the Republican party. Liberal Schumer is cozy to Wall Street, on everything from the capital gains tax to wall street reform. So perhaps where they differ socially, they come together economically.
NastyNateSoldiers Posted April 18, 2014 Posted April 18, 2014 Sorry and no offense to you and your source but I still question JBJ's finances. Forbes has his net worth at around $200 million. If the bid is $1 billion, the NFL says controlling owner must own at least 30%, so $300 million. Seems he's a bit short. Sure, you might say he can borrow the money. But the NFL also says you can only finance $200 million in the purchase of a team. So JBJ and his group need to come up with $800 million in cash and JBJ himself would have to come up $300 million. Not saying it couldn't happen, but that is a really tall order. I believe at the end the Bills will be sold for 1.25-1.5 Billion and I hate to say it but the Bon Jovi group with Maple leaf entertainment can afford it. Lets just hope that someone can beat there bids.
jahnyc Posted April 18, 2014 Posted April 18, 2014 I hope the NFL and the other owners understand that if the Bills move to Toronto, they will lose a significant number of current fans. I am concerned that a winning bid from a group that wants to move the team to Toronto will be perceived as a postive for Bills fans since Toronto is within driving distance. It is not. If the price gets to $1.5 billion, it will be tougher for an owner that wants to keep the team in Buffalo, particularly if the new owner used debt to fund part of the purchase price.
purple haze Posted April 18, 2014 Posted April 18, 2014 I hate to say it but the Bon Jovi group with Maple leaf entertainment can afford it. Lets just hope that someone can beat there bids. Why do you think they can afford it? And if they can they aren't the only groups with money. Bills are probably going nowhere. And whoever the next owner is will probably be a name/s we haven't heard of before it happens. And they will be the name who will also keep the Bills in WNY. I get the vibe that the Bills have more support in the league/$ circles than some want to believe. I also don't think Mrs. Wilson is selling to anyone who would move the team. There are never guarantees, but this is the strong vibe I get.
bbb Posted April 18, 2014 Posted April 18, 2014 Why do you think they can afford it? And if they can they aren't the only groups with money. Bills are probably going nowhere. And whoever the next owner is will probably be a name/s we haven't heard of before it happens. And they will be the name who will also keep the Bills in WNY. I get the vibe that the Bills have more support in the league/$ circles than some want to believe. I also don't think Mrs. Wilson is selling to anyone who would move the team. There are never guarantees, but this is the strong vibe I get. There is just so much info going on in the last few weeks that I can't keep up with all the rules..........Does Mrs. Wilson get to decide who they sell to?
purple haze Posted April 18, 2014 Posted April 18, 2014 (edited) There is just so much info going on in the last few weeks that I can't keep up with all the rules..........Does Mrs. Wilson get to decide who they sell to? That's something we don't know. That would be a part of the trust document. Unless you are in the family or an executor of the estate one would be hard pressed to know that info. I could be wrong, but just from reading what everyone else has, I have a hard time believing that the Bills will be sold to a group with plans to move them. Say the trust has to sell to the highest bidder. Well, that bidder can buy the team, but still has to be approved by the league. And the trust has no say in that as far as I can tell. So I think the highest bidder claim is erroneous. I think it would more likely be the highest bidder who can gain league approval. If one is needed, that is where the fix could come in. But I don't believe there will need to be a fix. I don't think the league wants to see the Bills relocated. And I believe there are groups out there with enough money to bid competitively with any group including Bon Jovi's potential group. Because WNY itself is not economically prosperous in general does not mean there are no people there, or with ties, with the money to play the game. We already know the usual suspects who do have that type of money. There are most likely others. As I said, my guess is the Bills next potential owner is known to the estate and the league, but not the public. People who talk at this point (Trump, Bon Jovi) want to get in the game; meaning they want to climb the list of potentials. If they were at the top of the list they would need to say nothing because they are where they want to be already. Notice how quiet all of the usual suspects have been about buying the Bills (Pegula, Gundlach, Golisano) or making statements that leave what they don't say more important (Jacobs). Real business is not discussed in public. The public finds out about mergers and acquisitions, usually, when it's already set to be voted on for approval. Not before. When the Sabres got sold I don't recall Terry Pegula being a name prominently mentioned, if he ever was. Edited April 18, 2014 by purple haze
BillnutinHouston Posted April 18, 2014 Posted April 18, 2014 I hope the NFL and the other owners understand that if the Bills move to Toronto, they will lose a significant number of current fans. I am concerned that a winning bid from a group that wants to move the team to Toronto will be perceived as a postive for Bills fans since Toronto is within driving distance. It is not. interesting point. I think Bills fans are passionate enough that they would be able to find creative ways to get the point cross that a Toronto team will NOT be supported by Bills fans. I'd think it would be easy to get plenty of signatures on a petition or resolution of some type that demonstrates this in no uncertain terms.
RuntheDamnBall Posted April 18, 2014 Posted April 18, 2014 People that I take serious told me very seriously that if a person seriously wants to move the bills that something serious would obviously happen.
jumbalaya Posted April 19, 2014 Posted April 19, 2014 Here's the root of the $1B problem. The Bills are worth $1B or more if moved to LA or Toronto. They are not worth $1B if kept in Buffalo. Ralph understood this.
DOGNESS Posted April 19, 2014 Posted April 19, 2014 (edited) I hope its a billion because I would fully expect someone local to match that. Especially if the state is prepared to build a new stadium for the team or do the soldier field facelift like they did in chicago. The Bills were valued at over 800 million not to long ago. That amount(one billion) shows me a certain level of uncertainty about the NFL's willingness to allow the team to relocate. I don't think anyone wants to pay 1.5 billion and then find out they can't move the team. I don't think 1.5 billion would be overpaying if you where certain you could relocate to a major market. Here's the root of the $1B problem. The Bills are worth $1B or more if moved to LA or Toronto. They are not worth $1B if kept in Buffalo. Ralph understood this. I dont agree. If Pegula bought this team for 1 billion now. He could probably sell it for 2 billion in ten years. Thats a 6% rate of return. Not saying he would sell it just saying I think a pro football team is a hell of an investment if you can afford one. This team is worth a billion here. Especially if they build a new stadium. In a major market its probably worth 1.5 billion. Edited April 19, 2014 by DOGNESS
bowery4 Posted April 19, 2014 Posted April 19, 2014 Can't read this whole thing now, has anyone said "Obviously Bon Jovi is cheap" yet?
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