Mathews or Glenn at LT??

[Bob Malooga]

Are you serious?

 

http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/167048-ltrt-mathews-or-te-ebron-in-r1/

 

Enough with this absurd crusade you are on...it's really foolish.

[Section242]

You do realize that the two are not mutually exclusive?

 

If the Bills had the best offensive line in the league and E.J. didn't progress they're a 6-10 team. Draft anybody and if Manuel isn't better they won't matter.

[maryland-bills-fan]

The pay scales for top offensive tackles is much different for the left and right sides.

The top 10 LEFT offensive tackles go $12.6M to $5.5M

The top 10 RIGHT offensive tackles go $7.0M to $3.0M.

 

The bottom 16 of 32 LOT and ROT stream downwards from $3.8M or $2.0M.

 

(these are cap numbers from http://overthecap.com/top-player-salaries-cap.php?Position=LT&Year=2013 )

 

If you draft a top LEFT offensive tackle and want to keep him past his rookie contract, be prepared to spend $8-10M a year. If you draft a top RIGHT offensive tackle, you will pay him $5 - $7M a year. Most of the league pays the position less than $2M a year.

 

It would be unwise and stupid to invest that much money and cap space to that position. It would be unwise and stupid to use up a top ten draft pick a RIGHT offensive tackle, when you can get a top guy in the late first or second round. We should trade down in the first round but still use one of our first two picks on a ROT and the other on a LB, DE or safety.

 

[thebandit27]

The pay scales for top offensive tackles is much different for the left and right sides.

The top 10 LEFT offensive tackles go $12.6M to $5.5M

The top 10 RIGHT offensive tackles go $7.0M to $3.0M.

 

The bottom 16 of 32 LOT and ROT stream downwards from $3.8M or $2.0M.

 

(these are cap numbers from http://overthecap.com/top-player-salaries-cap.php?Position=LT&Year=2013 )

 

If you draft a top LEFT offensive tackle and want to keep him past his rookie contract, be prepared to spend $8-10M a year. If you draft a top RIGHT offensive tackle, you will pay him $5 - $7M a year. Most of the league pays the position less than $2M a year.

 

It would be unwise and stupid to invest that much money and cap space to that position. It would be unwise and stupid to use up a top ten draft pick a RIGHT offensive tackle, when you can get a top guy in the late first or second round. We should trade down in the first round but still use one of our first two picks on a ROT and the other on a LB, DE or safety.

 

So it would be stupid to take one of the most talented players in the draft because 5 years from now paying him as though he were playing a different position would be a poor investment?

[NoSaint]

 

 

So it would be stupid to take one of the most talented players in the draft because 5 years from now paying him as though he were playing a different position would be a poor investment?

 

perhaps another way to frame the compensation discussion issue in the short term is would you rather have A) STUD top 5 vet RT (6m) and top ten drafted pass rusher (4m) with the pick and a total of 10m spending, or B) middle of the pack vet pass rusher (6m) and a top ten selected RT (4m)

 

still not a perfect discussion, but essentially getting at maximizing the value of the pick is both maximizing the talent you receive from the pick as well as the discount on the player to some degree and RT is a cheap position. we will be paying the rookie 3-4m a year, which will get you a proven top 10 RT potentially, but nowhere near that at DE, WR, CB, or LT....

 

does that do a better job of making it a 2014 roster composition issue instead of 2019? of course, the biggest thing being finding a guy that can succeed in your systems and you believe in regardless because a bust blows up all of this talk.

Edited April 18, 2014 by NoSaint

[thebandit27]

of course, the biggest thing being finding a guy that can succeed in your systems and you believe in regardless because a bust blows up all of this talk.

 

Exactly...it's about assembling the best team...the rest of it I consider to be 1st world problems on a 3rd world team.

[section122]

Glenn is a good LT, not a great LT. He has two years left on his contract. You mean to tell me that if Marrone has a BETTER LT on the roster than Glenn that he won't play him there......................because some guys at TBD say so??

 

If Matthews projects as a better LT and/or PROVES in training camp/preseason games that he is a better LT than Glenn then I suspect that he'll be the starting LT on opening day. End of story.

 

Glenn is going to play where the HC tells him to play........for the betterment of the team. Heck, it was suggested that he move to one of the OG positions at one time for Pete sake.

 

For those who question Matthews' ability, obviously, I can only PROJECT where he would play at this time. It's a PROJECTION!! Got it??

 

I would say that it's a fairly safe projection to say that Matthews projects as a better LT than Glenn if Glenn was a R2 pick (and barely considered an NFL caliber LT) while Matthews was projected to be not only a R1 pick, but the #1 pick in the entire draft. The real kicker that many of you don't seem to get is that this kid has the bloodline of an NFL All-Pro and HOFer. The Bills would be extremely fortunate to get this kid at #9 overall.

I feel like I am taking crazy pills reading this thread.

 

You bring up last year's draft as if it were somehow relevant to this year's draft and the talent on the Bills. Matthews played Rt every year before this so that projection that you are so sure of is based off of him playing rt.

 

Bloodline means nothing. How are Michael Jordan's kids doing in the NBA? Oh yeah they don't play in it.

 

As for where they were drafted by that logic Ryan Mallet should be starting for the Pats*. He was drafted in the 3rd round and that Brady guy was drafted in the 6th.

 

Glenn has been a stud in the NFL. If by some crazy happenstance Matthews beats him out sure you start Matthews at LT. Except there won't be a competiiton. They will work with him at RT to give him as many reps and as much practice as possible. The whole losing Glenn idea is ridiculous to me as Glenn will be here for at least 2 more years. If he proves to be great probably much longer than that. Drafting Matthews does't ruin the chances of anything. The whole you can get a serviceable rt later is true. However he is projecting to be a great one and that is why he is talked about in the top 10.

 

I feel very strongly that Matthews will be the pick if he is available. Reading the OBD tea leave, Matthews has been in a for a visit, there was just an article about how good Marrone thinks Glenn is, and RT is the reamining position to be addressed of the original offseason list (run stuffing lb - Spikes, Te- Chandler resigned, maybe Kaufmann, OG - Williams, WR - Williams.). If he isn't available I'm thinking trade down but that is a different thought for a different thread.

[thewildrabbit]

So, Glenn is good only because we have below average to average guards?

It could be that Glenn looked so dominate because opposing teams didn't focus their pass rush towards him, as the Bills had more then two bad players on that line.

 

Why on earth would teams focus on a good pass blocker when there are two complete scrubs they can stunt, and bring the blitz at. Pears at RT got a lot of that heat and under performed most of the year, and this is a big reason as to why everyone is talking OT. Brown at LG graded as the very worst player in the NFL right up until the Bills cut him and replaced him with a slightly less bad OG.

 

Should the Bills beef up that line it will be interesting to see if Glenn can still perform at the level he did in 2013.

 

So you think the last two years other teams weren't looking to exploit a rookie/2nd year LT?

I'm sure they tried at first, and when they didn't get very far they moved on to weaker areas. Teams watch film and copy what they see other teams doing to exploit weaknesses in an O line.

[KOKBILLS]

I feel like I am taking crazy pills reading this thread.

 

You bring up last year's draft as if it were somehow relevant to this year's draft and the talent on the Bills. Matthews played Rt every year before this so that projection that you are so sure of is based off of him playing rt.

 

Bloodline means nothing. How are Michael Jordan's kids doing in the NBA? Oh yeah they don't play in it.

 

As for where they were drafted by that logic Ryan Mallet should be starting for the Pats*. He was drafted in the 3rd round and that Brady guy was drafted in the 6th.

 

Glenn has been a stud in the NFL. If by some crazy happenstance Matthews beats him out sure you start Matthews at LT. Except there won't be a competiiton. They will work with him at RT to give him as many reps and as much practice as possible. The whole losing Glenn idea is ridiculous to me as Glenn will be here for at least 2 more years. If he proves to be great probably much longer than that. Drafting Matthews does't ruin the chances of anything. The whole you can get a serviceable rt later is true. However he is projecting to be a great one and that is why he is talked about in the top 10.

 

I feel very strongly that Matthews will be the pick if he is available. Reading the OBD tea leave, Matthews has been in a for a visit, there was just an article about how good Marrone thinks Glenn is, and RT is the reamining position to be addressed of the original offseason list (run stuffing lb - Spikes, Te- Chandler resigned, maybe Kaufmann, OG - Williams, WR - Williams.). If he isn't available I'm thinking trade down but that is a different thought for a different thread.

 

This ^^^

 

/endthread

[Rubes]

I'm sure they tried at first, and when they didn't get very far they moved on to weaker areas.

 

Exactly. They tried and failed. Because he is a very good LT.

[thewildrabbit]

Exactly. They tried and failed. Because he is a very good LT.

I never disputed that fact.

 

All I said was given that there were so many other bad players on that line. Why would teams try and attack the strongest point. They wouldn't, and didn't.

 

Its all moot anyway because I don't see the Bills drafting Matthews, as he will be long gone by #9. Then I don't see them drafting an OG with the #2 or 3 picks either, as apparently Brandon has his asinine moneyball scheme working on the O line. Why else would the Bills pay a lousy player like Chris Williams 5.5 guaranteed to play LG.

[maryland-bills-fan]

 

So it would be stupid to take one of the most talented players in the draft because 5 years from now paying him as though he were playing a different position would be a poor investment?

 

I should have developed the idea further. Two counter arguments are ............................................................................... As pointed out by "hall of famer", we could chose to draft some real top 10 stud at another position with pick #9 and then draft a top 10 RIGHT offensive tackle with pick #41. That would give real strong players at two positions and would be better than having a top 5 RIGHT offensive tackle and a top 25 player at another position..........................or (my wet dream) we could trade down in the first round to pick up another 2nd round pick (maybe even throwing in our 3rd or 4th) to get three picks on the first day. We could then get that 10 ten offensive tackle, a top 10 offensive guard and a nimble linebacker to help the defense. Three very quality starters..............I think that is a better way to go, rather than overspending for the RIGHT offensive tackle with our #9 pick.

[thebandit27]

 

 

I should have developed the idea further. Two counter arguments are ............................................................................... As pointed out by "hall of famer", we could chose to draft some real top 10 stud at another position with pick #9 and then draft a top 10 RIGHT offensive tackle with pick #41. That would give real strong players at two positions and would be better than having a top 5 RIGHT offensive tackle and a top 25 player at another position..........................or (my wet dream) we could trade down in the first round to pick up another 2nd round pick (maybe even throwing in our 3rd or 4th) to get three picks on the first day. We could then get that 10 ten offensive tackle, a top 10 offensive guard and a nimble linebacker to help the defense. Three very quality starters..............I think that is a better way to go, rather than overspending for the RIGHT offensive tackle with our #9 pick.

 

First, thanks for taking the time to clarify your point.

 

As I mentioned earlier, it's not about the position to me; it's about the player. If Matthews somehow fell, he's the guy I want because he's a stud.

 

I have no problem waiting on a RT--in fact I think it's the correct approach in most cases. The big important thing is to get a stud at 9 and solid starters in rounds 2 & 3.

 

By the way, I'm not saying this to diss you, just to note for reference: only 1st round picks are "day one" picks now. 2nd/3rd rounders are day two, and all others are day three. I'm sure you knew that and just misspoke, harkening back to the days when the draft didn't stretch over 3 days.

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

Obviously it's not a given that the Bills will select LT/RT J. Mathews or that he will even last until the #9 pick overall, but for the sake of argument let's assume that he does make it to #9 and the Bills smartly select him.

 

Would it be a given that he would play RT?? Not necessarily.

 

Glenn has proven to be a very capable LT, there's no doubt about that, but if Mathews proves to be even better, and by my estimation he is definitely a better LT than Glenn, then I think the Bills would play Mathews at LT and Glenn at RT. That would certainly make us very strong at the OT position for many years to come.

 

When you consider that aspect of it, Mathews becomes very highly coveted.

 

For the most part, RTs are a dime a dozen. LTs are not. Because LTs have to protect the QB's blind side (considering that most NFL QBs are right-handed) and go up against the opposition's best, most athletic pass rusher for the most part, they are much more in demand and well worth a top ten selection.

 

Considering that Mathews would have been the #1 selection overall last year had he opted for the draft as a Junior and that the three top OTs in this year's draft (Mathews/Robinson/Lewan) are all considered to be better than the top two OTs that were drafted last year in the top 5, that should really tell you the kind of player that Mathews is and the great value that the Bills would be getting at #9 overall.

 

For my money, being able to select J. Mathews at #9 overall would be a God-send for EJ Manuel and the Bills. He is my pick for the Bills in R1.

For the most part the OP's statement are/were true regarding LT/RT. Unfortunately, it should have been written 8-10 years ago, maybe it could have coincided with the release of the movie Blind Side ? More recent thinking has defenses getting a 2nd top notch DE or switching a dominant DE around to attack weaker RTs. 4 tackles went in the top 11 last year and though some will be making a switch to LT in the future (Eric Fisher is this year) they all played RT last year. The thinking in the NFL is going in the direction that teams need a top notch LT and RT.

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

It would be very smart of the bills to take Mathews

 

It would not be very smart to put him at LT when we already have a solid LT (lets face it...Glenn is BETTER then solid) so that then it can become a problem in contract negotiations

 

You draft Mathews....who will have a very affordable rookie OT contract.....and you restructure Glenn as soon as possible to give him his money....AND YOU KEEP THEM AT THEIR POSITIONS

 

Then....if god forbid an injury happens at LT.....you have a very good option to move into that spot. Nobody is talking about that......injuries can really make us wish we had rethought draft selections.

 

I know I've been repeating this ad nasuseam for a for months, but thank you for saying it succinctly and well.

 

There are some playmakers I would take over Mathews, but I doubt they will be there at 9. If anything, our own defensive strategy is an example as to why you need two equally good tackles. The Rex Ryan/Mike Pettine defenses (of which I know of at least three games where we'll see it) loves generating pressure by mismatching personnel. They might drop a DT or DE into coverage so you can overload a vulnerable side with only a five man blitz. I can think of zero reason to keep two very good rookie tackle prospect at opposite ends of the line.

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

I feel like I am taking crazy pills reading this thread.

 

You bring up last year's draft as if it were somehow relevant to this year's draft and the talent on the Bills. Matthews played Rt every year before this so that projection that you are so sure of is based off of him playing rt.

 

Bloodline means nothing. How are Michael Jordan's kids doing in the NBA? Oh yeah they don't play in it.

 

As for where they were drafted by that logic Ryan Mallet should be starting for the Pats*. He was drafted in the 3rd round and that Brady guy was drafted in the 6th.

 

Glenn has been a stud in the NFL. If by some crazy happenstance Matthews beats him out sure you start Matthews at LT. Except there won't be a competiiton. They will work with him at RT to give him as many reps and as much practice as possible. The whole losing Glenn idea is ridiculous to me as Glenn will be here for at least 2 more years. If he proves to be great probably much longer than that. Drafting Matthews does't ruin the chances of anything. The whole you can get a serviceable rt later is true. However he is projecting to be a great one and that is why he is talked about in the top 10.

 

I feel very strongly that Matthews will be the pick if he is available. Reading the OBD tea leave, Matthews has been in a for a visit, there was just an article about how good Marrone thinks Glenn is, and RT is the reamining position to be addressed of the original offseason list (run stuffing lb - Spikes, Te- Chandler resigned, maybe Kaufmann, OG - Williams, WR - Williams.). If he isn't available I'm thinking trade down but that is a different thought for a different thread.

Very well said. I still want to know how the OP definitely knows Mathews is better, and good RTs are not a dime a dozen, that thinking needs to be and is being updated. Edited April 19, 2014 by LOVEMESOMEBILLS

[BillsBytheBay]

Just stop. We have a great LT. Leave it.

 

 

As soon as a player performs well. Our fans pack their bags for them.

 

This is not andy Levitre at LG,this is our franchise LT. They will pay him the big bucks.

[BuffaloFan68]

I would be happy with either Robinson or Matthews with the 9th pick but I'm not sold on Lewan & I expect both Robinson & Matthews will be gone by the time we pick. That is why I think we will end up going with LB at 9, either Barr or Mosely.

[thebandit27]

I would be happy with either Robinson or Matthews with the 9th pick but I'm not sold on Lewan & I expect both Robinson & Matthews will be gone by the time we pick. That is why I think we will end up going with LB at 9, either Barr or Mosely.

 

I would be very disappointed with that scenario

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

I would be happy with either Robinson or Matthews with the 9th pick but I'm not sold on Lewan & I expect both Robinson & Matthews will be gone by the time we pick. That is why I think we will end up going with LB at 9, either Barr or Mosely.

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, do not happen. I really think the defense has gotten a lot of attention over the last few years, hopefully they use the 1st rounder and most of the picks, for that matter, on upgrading the offense(especially the o-line)