thebandit27 Posted April 12, 2014 Posted April 12, 2014 Sweet Jesus, this thread is full of idiocy. Sorry Gug, I'll try to tone it down.
BillsBytheBay Posted April 12, 2014 Posted April 12, 2014 His first two seasons as a backup. He struggled in preseason, if I remember correctly. And the few chances he got in the regular season, he was pretty bad. His third season as a backup he shined, and then the Packers felt comfortable parting ways with Favre. ah. I thought he only had two seasons as a backup. Didn't remember the first one. Carry on.
Beerball Posted April 12, 2014 Posted April 12, 2014 You are conflating several issues here. 1.) You CAN'T determine ANYTHING after a 10 game sample. Period. Never said or implied otherwise. 2.) You CAN'T dismiss the other aspects of the experience gained simply by being immersed in the processes of an NFL team and all that encompasses. It's beyond comprehension anyone would argue against this fact. 3.) I don't have disdain for anybody's position on this or any other matter around here. Not worth the emotional investment. 4.) Since nobody ever "accused" you of being snide and prickly, then the issue lies with me? Give me a break. You can be just a difficult, particularly after losses, as anyone else who gets in the occasional bad mood. I don't agree for a second that you're somehow above it all. 5) Like I said, find another lackey to come up with a different name than hater. WTF are you even entertaining the idea of having to come up with names to call other TBD members in the first place? Seems a bit childish. GO BILLS!!! Now you're back on 10 games. Earlier today he had a year's experience. Which is it? You have more waffles than Perkins. One of us is definitely behaving in a childish manner. Probably the one doing the name calling, wouldn't you say?
Big Blitz Posted April 12, 2014 Posted April 12, 2014 I see some Big Ben in his play. I think thats my ceiling for him. I have faith in him bc he has the moxie and leadership abilities you want. Hes authentic. He never points the finger. Hes coachable. I saw enough good to be optimistic. There was bad sure. But I wasnt dumb enough to think we drafted Peyton Manning. So far, Imo we picked the best QB in that class. And everyone knew he would need time and work. Not remotely worried about him.
Sisyphean Bills Posted April 12, 2014 Posted April 12, 2014 1.) You CAN'T determine ANYTHING after a 10 game sample. Period. Never said or implied otherwise. 2.) You CAN'T dismiss the other aspects of the experience gained simply by being immersed in the processes of an NFL team and all that encompasses. It's beyond comprehension anyone would argue against this fact. On (1), why can't people form their own opinions after 10 games? Obviously, everyone is going on imperfect knowledge, but it's not correct to say no one can have an opinion. They do. On (2), "immersion in the NFL process" is not a recipe for success. One can't be a successful NFL QB if he is playing golf, obviously, but there is no cause and effect there. Rick Mirer was a #2 overall pick, immersed in the NFL for 12 years, and ... well, he doesn't fit my definition of a successful NFL QB. The list of 1st round QBs that were anything but successful is extremely long.
Buftex Posted April 12, 2014 Posted April 12, 2014 I am firmly in that camp that feels it is still too early to tell. I don't think he was nearly the train-wreck that so many seem to feel he was... but I do have some concerns still. I am inclined to feel good about him, though. By my own count, he had two really outstanding games, 2 truly awful games, and the rest were kind of a mixed bag. A big part of his problems, as far as i am concerned, came from just being too tentative. I just think, as his comfort grows, his decision making will be quicker, and he will be more effective. Having seen some of his college games, for instance, while he wasn't a super fast runner, he didn't lumber, like he did with the Bills this year...like he decides to run the ball, and then mid-stride, is wondering if he made the right decision. More starts, more playing time, and I just feel like we will start to see the benefits of his superior athletic skills. Like most, I have some concerns with his accuracy....but, again, I think this will improve. He may never be Joe Montana in this area, but with the team speed this team is playing with on offense, he should be able to hook up more often down field. Also, I think the OC needs to develop a better, more consistent way of getting the running backs involved in the passing game. I'm all in on EJ for 2014!
FireChan Posted April 12, 2014 Posted April 12, 2014 Sweet Jesus, this thread is full of idiocy. I don't know, watching Beer go toe to toe instead of sporadically posting is engrossing.
Pondslider Posted April 12, 2014 Posted April 12, 2014 I see some Big Ben in his play. I think thats my ceiling for him. I have faith in him bc he has the moxie and leadership abilities you want. Hes authentic. He never points the finger. Hes coachable. I saw enough good to be optimistic. There was bad sure. But I wasnt dumb enough to think we drafted Peyton Manning. So far, Imo we picked the best QB in that class. And everyone knew he would need time and work. Not remotely worried about him. Your comparison for Manuel is a QB who took his team to the playoffs in his rookie year and won his first of two Super Bowls in his second season. Was Brady aiming too high?
SlamnSam Posted April 12, 2014 Posted April 12, 2014 you don't have to debate because you are wrong, so just let it go, and ej.
Mark Vader Posted April 12, 2014 Posted April 12, 2014 I believe in EJ, and think that he can be a good QB for the Bills. He does have a lot of questions to answer. I really hope he can play an entire season. I still have more of a concern about Hackett. If I see one more designed play that results in a 1 yard screen pass to Scott Chandler, I will be demanding that Hackett be exiled to Devil's Island.
NDBUFFCUSEFAN Posted April 12, 2014 Posted April 12, 2014 you don't have to debate because you are wrong, so just let it go, and ej. Someone in the Air Force is wrong, not surprised .
Big Blitz Posted April 12, 2014 Posted April 12, 2014 Your comparison for Manuel is a QB who took his team to the playoffs in his rookie year and won his first of two Super Bowls in his second season. Was Brady aiming too high? Oh my bad. I think hes more like Jamarcus Russel.
thebandit27 Posted April 12, 2014 Posted April 12, 2014 you don't have to debate because you are wrong, so just let it go, and ej. Last comment I'm going to make in response to you: an opinion cannot be wrong. You've got one, and that's fine. It hasn't been proven right or wrong at this point. Same goes for everyone else in this thread. The sooner you grasp that, the sooner the quality of your discussions will increase. Oh my bad. I think hes more like Jamarcus Russel. Interesting...in what way?
1billsfan Posted April 12, 2014 Posted April 12, 2014 Casserly may be good at positional evaluations, but when it comes to the QB position he's been awful. He once said that Cam Newton shouldn't be a first round pick. He had the Panthers taking Green and the Bengals taking Gabbert in the 2011 draft. Thats two team he'd have ruined. Hello, David Carr anybody? The QB position is obviously the hardest one to evaluate and you'd have to have a crystal ball to give a "he's a franchise QB" prediction on either Manuel or any of these QBs in this years draft. Manuel was a bit of a "project" QB prospect to begin with so 10 games of play means almost nothing right now. IMO Manuel lived up to his "project" QB description showing some good, bad and ugly play. He does need to show consistent high level of play by the second half of this coming season. I think he'll find his way and solidify his starting status with real signs he's a true franchise QB this year.
Maury Ballstein Posted April 12, 2014 Posted April 12, 2014 "Hater" is appropriate at times. We have the Stevie haters/Spiller haters/and the newest sect the EJ haters. I am not a member of any of these sects. My EJ confidence meter is at 65%....bring in Matthews and Sefarian Jenkins. Those 2 draft picks and Brandon Spikes 2 wins vs patriots = playoffs ! Casserly may be good at positional evaluations, but when it comes to the QB position he's been awful. He once said that Cam Newton shouldn't be a first round pick. He's no Heath Shuler or Dave Ragone. Babble on Casserly
K-9 Posted April 12, 2014 Posted April 12, 2014 (edited) On (1), why can't people form their own opinions after 10 games? Obviously, everyone is going on imperfect knowledge, but it's not correct to say no one can have an opinion. They do. On (2), "immersion in the NFL process" is not a recipe for success. One can't be a successful NFL QB if he is playing golf, obviously, but there is no cause and effect there. Rick Mirer was a #2 overall pick, immersed in the NFL for 12 years, and ... well, he doesn't fit my definition of a successful NFL QB. The list of 1st round QBs that were anything but successful is extremely long. 1.) Forming "opinions" is one thing, making any determination about whether he will be a successful QB or not is quite another. I see a TON of determinations being made in the guise of opinions. 2.) While not a recipe for success, and NOBODY suggested it is, immersion in the NFL process and all that it entails is important just from an experience factor alone. And the ONLY point I was making regarding Manuel's immersion in that process is that, OBVIOUSLY, this year's prospects don't have that at this point and it IS an advantage AT THIS TIME. For the life of me, I don't understand why that is so hard to understand for some. GO BILLS!!! Now you're back on 10 games. Earlier today he had a year's experience. Which is it? You have more waffles than Perkins. One of us is definitely behaving in a childish manner. Probably the one doing the name calling, wouldn't you say? For the umpteenth time: 10 games is not enough of a sample period. As I've said for YEARS here, I'm a firm believer in the thousand pass marker. Having a year within a system is valuable. There is not one iota of inconsistency in those two views. Nobody is calling anyone any names. Unless you consider the characterization of your occasional ill humor as "prickly" and "snide" at times as name calling. There seems to be someone demanding new labels be created for those that don't think Manuel is the answer, though. Like I said, find somebody else to create labels for others around here. Perhaps you should start with someone who has actually called you "hater" or some other such word. In the meantime, this has been beaten to death and perhaps it's better we just avoid each other in threads in the future. I seem to tick you off for whatever reason and I don't respond well to your particular brand of thorniness. GO BILLS!!! Edited April 12, 2014 by K-9
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted April 12, 2014 Posted April 12, 2014 (edited) I think he is more Rob Johnson than Doug Flutie I agree, Rob Johnson was a big guy with a cannon arm and was a great prospect... In the end It just didn't work out. While Flutie had the staure of a middle schooler and a very weak arm. If it wasn't for that one throw at BC, he'd never have made an nfl roster. His career showed he never should have. Edited April 12, 2014 by over 20 years of fanhood
chris heff Posted April 12, 2014 Posted April 12, 2014 I am firmly in that camp that feels it is still too early to tell. I don't think he was nearly the train-wreck that so many seem to feel he was... but I do have some concerns still. I am inclined to feel good about him, though. By my own count, he had two really outstanding games, 2 truly awful games, and the rest were kind of a mixed bag. A big part of his problems, as far as i am concerned, came from just being too tentative. I just think, as his comfort grows, his decision making will be quicker, and he will be more effective. Having seen some of his college games, for instance, while he wasn't a super fast runner, he didn't lumber, like he did with the Bills this year...like he decides to run the ball, and then mid-stride, is wondering if he made the right decision. More starts, more playing time, and I just feel like we will start to see the benefits of his superior athletic skills. Like most, I have some concerns with his accuracy....but, again, I think this will improve. He may never be Joe Montana in this area, but with the team speed this team is playing with on offense, he should be able to hook up more often down field. Also, I think the OC needs to develop a better, more consistent way of getting the running backs involved in the passing game. I'm all in on EJ for 2014! EJ was at his best when he was just playing and not thinking. His best drives were two minute drills. He stopped aiming the ball and just threw it. This tendency started in the first preseason game. It seemed to me that he had been coached to protect the ball so much that it made him tentative. The offense was also painfully predictable.
FireChan Posted April 12, 2014 Posted April 12, 2014 1.) Forming "opinions" is one thing, making any determination about whether he will be a successful QB or not is quite another. I see a TON of determinations being made in the guise of opinions. 2.) While not a recipe for success, and NOBODY suggested it is, immersion in the NFL process and all that it entails is important just from an experience factor alone. And the ONLY point I was making regarding Manuel's immersion in that process is that, OBVIOUSLY, this year's prospects don't have that at this point and it IS an advantage AT THIS TIME. For the life of me, I don't understand why that is so hard to understand for some. GO BILLS!!! For the umpteenth time: 10 games is not enough of a sample period. As I've said for YEARS here, I'm a firm believer in the thousand pass marker. Having a year within a system is valuable. There is not one iota of inconsistency in those two views. Nobody is calling anyone any names. Unless you consider the characterization of your occasional ill humor as "prickly" and "snide" at times as name calling. There seems to be someone demanding new labels be created for those that don't think Manuel is the answer, though. Like I said, find somebody else to create labels for others around here. Perhaps you should start with someone who has actually called you "hater" or some other such word. In the meantime, this has been beaten to death and perhaps it's better we just avoid each other in threads in the future. I seem to tick you off for whatever reason and I don't respond well to your particular brand of thorniness. GO BILLS!!! Do I smell Artpark brewing?
Big Blitz Posted April 12, 2014 Posted April 12, 2014 Last comment I'm going to make in response to you: an opinion cannot be wrong. You've got one, and that's fine. It hasn't been proven right or wrong at this point. Same goes for everyone else in this thread. The sooner you grasp that, the sooner the quality of your discussions will increase. Interesting...in what way? I was being sarcastic. I said in my opinion EJ has a game similar to and a potential ceiling like Big Ben. Someone replied that its ridiculous to compare the 2 bc Ben won 2 super bowls his first 6 yrs in the league. So I guess you can only compare EJ to guys that stink.
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