Who believes in Manuel?

[YoloinOhio]

And this is the same garbage ACC you're talking about that just had a player at EJ's same position, from his alma mater win the Heisman Trophy?? Is it possible, just possible, that you're not exactly being well-balanced in your perspective? ACC is a BCS Conference and Winston just won the Heisman from Florida State...I don't think I should really have to say anything more to validate the existence and competition of the ACC and how that would be retroactively applicable to EJ considering it was just one year prior...so I won't....if you honestly take issue with the ACC, then there's not much myself or anyone else can say to have a good-hearted, well-informed debate...you don't like EJ as the BILLS QB, all fine and good, but to question what football conference he came from, makes very little sense to me...check that, it makes NO sense to me...

+1. IMO, conference/opponents does not matter in relation to how a QB projects to the NFL.

[Chandler#81]

And that guy was traded away by Atlanta, how'd that work out for Atlanta? Drew Brees was let walk. Alex Smith, bust? I could go back to Pittsburg releasing Unitas. Someone, not just a fan decided that those guys weren't going to make it. Unitas, maybe the best ever in the HOF, Brees and Favre both go in HOF. As for Smith would you take him?

 

Unitas? Oh No you din't!

True, Johnny U was cut his rookie season -didn't make it out of training camp as Steeler HC didn't think he was any good. *Ted Marchibroda was the starter.

He sat out 1 year 'til Weeb Ewbank became coach of the Colts and called him up. Through injury, he got his chance and -while having ONE season of a learning curve, ended up tossing 9 TD's -the last of which in the Season finale began his 47 game streak of TD passes. How'd he do in his 1st season as a starter? Led the League in yrds & TDs. 2nd Season? Titanic tilt vs NYG in OT to win World Championship.

 

So, you're sayin' Manuel will lead the League this year in yrds & TD's? I'll eat my hat!

[Beerball]

I don't view you as anything other than another frustrated fan. Perhaps you are confusing me with someone else. I don't use terms like hater, etc. It's stupid. So you'll just have to assign my "task" of finding a another term for those that don't think Manuel is the answer to someone else.

 

The maturation of a QB is a process and we can either choose to be patient with it or not.

 

As to the rest of your post, I'd be interested in you pointing out my "inconsistency" regarding the entire Manuel debate. I've been nothing but consistent since the moment he was drafted and remain so.

 

Pardon me while I laugh at your assertion that you're above picking fights around here. When you get in one of your pricky snits, you are quite capable.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Inconsistency?

 

EJ has only had 10 games, how can you make up your mind about a QB in 10 games?

 

EJ has a year on these QB's.

 

Which is it?

 

I don't snit and nobody has ever referred to me as pricky before today so my assertion that the issue lies with you remains intact.

 

You might not think of me as a hater, but you do have genuine disdain for the position I'm taking. I do trust you though to come up with a better name than hater. I wish you'd try.

[RunninRebel37]

I think EJ will have a great year as long as he stays healthy. He went 4-6, which definitely doesn't look good, but considering 3 of those games weren't solely on him a 7-3 record, paired with the two Lewis wins, and were in the wild card spot. The first NE game, CLE, and ATL were all winnable games that EJ stepped up when it mattered. I love all the negativity directed towards him and the team, because I can't wait for him to prove all the pundits and haters wrong!

 

GO BILLS!!!!!!

 

p.s. REEBBBBBEEEELLLLSSSSSSS!!!!!!!

[JESSEFEFFER]

In defense of Charley Casserly, there is way more to a QBs draft evaluation than college tape. Lets say his opinion is largely true, it still does not say "these 7 are better NFL prospects." Because, in their present state, no rookie QB is good enough to be elite in the NFL. It's all about what they are likely to become rather than what they currently are.

 

I do not think any team did a more thorough job of QB evaluation for the 2013 draft than the Bills. This went far beyond his college game tape which, which, along with the combine, is probably all the info Casserly has access to anymore.

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9749030/buffalo-bills-qb-ej-manuel-stats-charts-espn-magazine

 

“Patience is bitter, but its fruit is sweet.”

― Aristotle

 

Prediction: EJ Manuel will be at least as good a QB as Joe Flacco.

[chris heff]

 

 

Unitas? Oh No you din't!

True, Johnny U was cut his rookie season -didn't make it out of training camp as Steeler HC didn't think he was any good. *Ted Marchibroda was the starter.

He sat out 1 year 'til Weeb Ewbank became coach of the Colts and called him up. Through injury, he got his chance and -while having ONE season of a learning curve, ended up tossing 9 TD's -the last of which in the Season finale began his 47 game streak of TD passes. How'd he do in his 1st season as a starter? Led the League in yrds & TDs. 2nd Season? Titanic tilt vs NYG in OT to win World Championship.

 

So, you're sayin' Manuel will lead the League this year in yrds & TD's? I'll eat my hat!

You know that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying part of one season is not enough time. There is a history in the NFL of teams giving up on guys.

 

As I was writting "Unitas" I was wondering who Pittsburg's QB was, Marchibroda, good one.

[Rocky Landing]

In defense of Charley Casserly, there is way more to a QBs draft evaluation than college tape. Lets say his opinion is largely true, it still does not say "these 7 are better NFL prospects." Because, in their present state, no rookie QB is good enough to be elite in the NFL. It's all about what they are likely to become rather than what they currently are.

 

I do not think any team did a more thorough job of QB evaluation for the 2013 draft than the Bills. This went far beyond his college game tape which, which, along with the combine, is probably all the info Casserly has access to anymore.

 

http://espn.go.com/n...s-espn-magazine

 

“Patience is bitter, but its fruit is sweet.”

― Aristotle

 

Prediction: EJ Manuel will be at least as good a QB as Joe Flacco.

I appreciate the optimism, and all, but Flacco made it to the conference championship his rookie year, starting every game. If your prediction is going to come true, EJ has some catching up to do.

[LB3]

I appreciate the optimism, and all, but Flacco made it to the conference championship his rookie year, starting every game. If your prediction is going to come true, EJ has some catching up to do.

 

So did Mr. Butt Fumble.

[Ramius]

Manuel gets a bad rap because a red shirt freshman took over for him and won a National Championship. Whether that's fair or not is up for debate, but it points to Manuel holding that team back, not vice versa.

 

As an FSU alum still here in Tallahassee, i've been addressing this fallacy all off-season. It comes down to 2 points.

 

1. Jameis is a much better QB than EJ. At the collegiate level, Winston has the look of a once-in-a-generation QB. He's been our best one since Charlie Ward.

2. The 2013 Noles were markedly different (and better) than the 2012 Noles. The defense was a ton better, the OL was better, the running game was better, and the skill positions were better.

 

The team was very different in 2013, for a wide variety of reasons.

[chris heff]

 

 

As an FSU alum still here in Tallahassee, i've been addressing this fallacy all off-season. It comes down to 2 points.

 

1. Jameis is a much better QB than EJ. At the collegiate level, Winston has the look of a once-in-a-generation QB. He's been our best one since Charlie Ward.

2. The 2013 Noles were markedly different (and better) than the 2012 Noles. The defense was a ton better, the OL was better, the running game was better, and the skill positions were better.

 

The team was very different in 2013, for a wide variety of reasons.

I've heard exactly the same thing from other FSU alumni and have posted it. I noticed you qualified "much better QB". Charlie Ward was a great college QB. Had a good career in the NBA.

 

People also are under the impression that the FSU offense is simple. I believe that they run a relatively small number of plays out of multiple formations. Makes it difficult for QB if everyone isn't on the same page.

 

Ramius I would like your opinion, thanks.

Edited April 11, 2014 by chris heff

[FireChan]

 

 

As an FSU alum still here in Tallahassee, i've been addressing this fallacy all off-season. It comes down to 2 points.

 

1. Jameis is a much better QB than EJ. At the collegiate level, Winston has the look of a once-in-a-generation QB. He's been our best one since Charlie Ward.

2. The 2013 Noles were markedly different (and better) than the 2012 Noles. The defense was a ton better, the OL was better, the running game was better, and the skill positions were better.

 

The team was very different in 2013, for a wide variety of reasons.

 

I know. Hence the "fair or not" point.

[SlamnSam]

actually I gave you two facts. Flat tire and EJ is a mediocre qb. Those are the facts, therefore present your side of the argument that EJ is better than Thad Lewis. Please show me some facts. My promise stands. EJ=Bust, live with it and move on.

[finn]

Obviously, it's too early to tell, really. But what are the odds that he will be very good? Could happen but unlikely, since most qb's don't make it. My guess, fwiw, is that he'll be like J.P. Losman: just good enough to get people to make excuses for him for three or four mediocre seasons before it's obvious he'll never be very good. If I were GM, I would draft a quarterback in round one or two this year. The stakes are too high not to hedge their bets.

[Dorkington]

are you referring to his two years as a backup? Or his first season as starter with 4000 yards, and 28 TDs?

 

His first two seasons as a backup. He struggled in preseason, if I remember correctly. And the few chances he got in the regular season, he was pretty bad. His third season as a backup he shined, and then the Packers felt comfortable parting ways with Favre.

[Rocky Landing]

So did Mr. Butt Fumble.

Good point.

[K-9]

Inconsistency?

 

EJ has only had 10 games, how can you make up your mind about a QB in 10 games?

 

EJ has a year on these QB's.

 

Which is it?

 

I don't snit and nobody has ever referred to me as pricky before today so my assertion that the issue lies with you remains intact.

 

You might not think of me as a hater, but you do have genuine disdain for the position I'm taking. I do trust you though to come up with a better name than hater. I wish you'd try.

 

You are conflating several issues here.

 

1.) You CAN'T determine ANYTHING after a 10 game sample. Period. Never said or implied otherwise.

 

2.) You CAN'T dismiss the other aspects of the experience gained simply by being immersed in the processes of an NFL team and all that encompasses. It's beyond comprehension anyone would argue against this fact.

 

3.) I don't have disdain for anybody's position on this or any other matter around here. Not worth the emotional investment.

 

4.) Since nobody ever "accused" you of being snide and prickly, then the issue lies with me? Give me a break. You can be just a difficult, particularly after losses, as anyone else who gets in the occasional bad mood. I don't agree for a second that you're somehow above it all.

 

5) Like I said, find another lackey to come up with a different name than hater. WTF are you even entertaining the idea of having to come up with names to call other TBD members in the first place? Seems a bit childish.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[thebandit27]

actually I gave you two facts. Flat tire and EJ is a mediocre qb. Those are the facts, therefore present your side of the argument that EJ is better than Thad Lewis. Please show me some facts. My promise stands. EJ=Bust, live with it and move on.

 

I'm not going to debate with someone that doesn't understand the difference between opinion and fact.

 

 

I appreciate the optimism, and all, but Flacco made it to the conference championship his rookie year, starting every game. If your prediction is going to come true, EJ has some catching up to do.

 

To be fair, that team was much further along on offense than this one

[Jerry Jabber]

Not sure what to think of Glass Joe except that he's fragile.

[thebandit27]

Not sure what to think of Glass Joe except that he's fragile.

 

I know that's what I think of when I see a 6'5", 240 lb guy: fragile.

 

Or you could just say that he needs to avoid taking hits to his knees, which will injure anyone...but that would be much too mild a statement I'm guessing.

[Gugny]

Sweet Jesus, this thread is full of idiocy.