Garranimal Posted April 11, 2014 Posted April 11, 2014 Based on what, exactly? I thought you just said they have similar stats? Why does Smith have more "upside?" Ah, the old "upside" and "highest ceiling" argument.....i love when people talk about bigfoot and nessie!
Security Posted April 11, 2014 Posted April 11, 2014 I think he can handle the job. Needs to throw it downfield a little more to open some more underneath stuff up though.
Garranimal Posted April 11, 2014 Posted April 11, 2014 (edited) And the people who give up a 23 year old learning the hardest position in sports after one year have the patience of a 13 year old. Miley Cyrus rules! Great, bring in Tebow! "Manuel led the Seminoles to a 12-win season for just the third time in program history,and the first time since their dominant stretch in the 1990s. During his senior season, he threw for the second most yards in team history with 3,392, trailing only Chris Weinke's Heisman Trophy winning season, in which Weinke threw for 4,167 yards. Manuel went 25-6 as a starter, won the first BCS bowl for Florida State since 2000, won five out of six games against intrastate rivals Miami and Florida, and he also led the offense to its most prolific season in team history, cleanly surpassing the 1999 National Championship squad with 6,591 yards." As I've said before I live in Florida and have friends that are FSU alumni and football fans. The most astute of these made the observation that Manuel played for a team in transition from Bowden to Fisher. Had less talent around him than Winston, particularly the OL. I don't know if EJ will be good in the NFL or not and neither does anyone else, but I don't know how anyone can state that he had a bad college career. A quick question....what quality teams did he play his senior year? Do tell? You are talking about racking up yards against the ACC....which is like saying I scored with a chick i met in a house of ill-repute (chippewa street?). Edited April 11, 2014 by Garranimal
K-9 Posted April 11, 2014 Posted April 11, 2014 Pointing out inconsistencies is picking fights? Perhaps if you didn't view me as a hater you wouldn't take my words so harshly. Yes, I think that is it. Your task Mr. 9., should you decide to accept it, is to come up with an acceptable term for those on the other side of the Manuel equation. This post will unfortunately not self-destruct in 5 seconds. I'd also like to let you know that you shouldn't take me as seriously as you take yourself. This is a fun place. I don't pick fights, that would be silly. I don't view you as anything other than another frustrated fan. Perhaps you are confusing me with someone else. I don't use terms like hater, etc. It's stupid. So you'll just have to assign my "task" of finding a another term for those that don't think Manuel is the answer to someone else. The maturation of a QB is a process and we can either choose to be patient with it or not. As to the rest of your post, I'd be interested in you pointing out my "inconsistency" regarding the entire Manuel debate. I've been nothing but consistent since the moment he was drafted and remain so. Pardon me while I laugh at your assertion that you're above picking fights around here. When you get in one of your pricky snits, you are quite capable. GO BILLS!!!
CodeMonkey Posted April 11, 2014 Posted April 11, 2014 And the people who give up a 23 year old learning the hardest position in sports after one year have the patience of a 13 year old. Miley Cyrus rules! I've never really thought about that before. QB is definitely up there pretty high, but I'd have to give the nod to hockey goalie. They play the entire game, in a lot of pads, many games per season, have to make very quick reads very often in each game, play several games a week and even on consecutive nights, and one mistake can often cost the team a game. Second place probably soccer goalie for a lot of the same reasons. Not nearly as physically demanding as hockey goalie or QB, but it is a VERY large goal they are defending and as with hockey, soccer is generally a very low scoring game where one mistake by a goalie can decide it. QBs can and generally do make many mistakes a game and get away with it.
K-9 Posted April 11, 2014 Posted April 11, 2014 Manuel gets a bad rap because a red shirt freshman took over for him and won a National Championship. Whether that's fair or not is up for debate, but it points to Manuel holding that team back, not vice versa. All that "points" to is that Jameis Winston is a far better QB at the same stage of development. Only short-sighted people would take that as a knock on EJ Manuel. GO BILLS!!!
Dorkington Posted April 11, 2014 Posted April 11, 2014 Having learned nothing from his years behind Favre, isn't it amazing how well Rodgers did? HE MUST HAVE HAD "IT" ALL ALONG. http://www.jsonline....s/32579374.html Rodgers simply sucked his first couple years. I actually remember some of it. Then his third year, he had a good game or two, then Favre left, and the rest is history. Frankly if we had a QB that did what Rodgers did the first two years, we would be running him out of town. It's difficult to predict when things will click for a QB. For the Packers, luckily it clicked for Rodgers just in time.
K-9 Posted April 11, 2014 Posted April 11, 2014 Rodgers simply sucked his first couple years. I actually remember some of it. Then his third year, he had a good game or two, then Favre left, and the rest is history. Frankly if we had a QB that did what Rodgers did the first two years, we would be running him out of town. It's difficult to predict when things will click for a QB. For the Packers, luckily it clicked for Rodgers just in time. This is an important consideration. "At the right time" implies that, in addition to your QB getting it together, other facets of the team have to be hitting on all cylinders as well. Let's hope it all comes together for us as well. GO BILLS!!!
BillsBytheBay Posted April 11, 2014 Posted April 11, 2014 I don't believe in him. I also don't think he can't succeed. I believe he'll play better than last year, I just don't expect him to become an accurate, rhythm passer any time soon.
YoloinOhio Posted April 11, 2014 Posted April 11, 2014 Manuel gets a bad rap because a red shirt freshman took over for him and won a National Championship. Whether that's fair or not is up for debate, but it points to Manuel holding that team back, not vice versa. Wonder why they red shirted Winston his freshman year if EJ was holding them back as a senior.
BillsBytheBay Posted April 11, 2014 Posted April 11, 2014 Rodgers simply sucked his first couple years. I actually remember some of it. Then his third year, he had a good game or two, then Favre left, and the rest is history. Frankly if we had a QB that did what Rodgers did the first two years, we would be running him out of town. It's difficult to predict when things will click for a QB. For the Packers, luckily it clicked for Rodgers just in time. are you referring to his two years as a backup? Or his first season as starter with 4000 yards, and 28 TDs?
chris heff Posted April 11, 2014 Posted April 11, 2014 Great, bring in Tebow! A quick question....what quality teams did he play his senior year? Do tell? You are talking about racking up yards against the ACC....which is like saying I scored with a chick i met in a house of ill-repute (chippewa street?). Clemson, NC State, Boston College, Miami, VA Tech, Maryland, Florida, GA Tech and maybe Duke. All of these are big time programs. All college teams play some door mats. Go look at who Central Florida played last year or Louisville and you'll see the same thing. What's your point?
Chandler#81 Posted April 11, 2014 Posted April 11, 2014 Rodgers simply sucked his first couple years. I actually remember some of it. Then his third year, he had a good game or two, then Favre left, and the rest is history. Frankly if we had a QB that did what Rodgers did the first two years, we would be running him out of town. It's difficult to predict when things will click for a QB. For the Packers, luckily it clicked for Rodgers just in time. He simply DIDN'T suck. The fact is the Packers were so convinced he was their man, that when the Bayou Bumpkin changed his mind and decided to return, the Pack shipped his azz to NY and pronounced Rodgers 'The Man'. Anyone here who's ready to pronounce Manuel 'The Man' needs to be shipped off to NYC too.
K-9 Posted April 11, 2014 Posted April 11, 2014 He simply DIDN'T suck. The fact is the Packers were so convinced he was their man, that when the Bayou Bumpkin changed his mind and decided to return, the Pack shipped his azz to NY and pronounced Rodgers 'The Man'. Anyone here who's ready to pronounce Manuel 'The Man' needs to be shipped off to NYC too. Rodgers came into the league with as many question marks as EJ Manuel. And he looked pretty bad in the spot duty he got his first couple years; flat out sucked balls. Does Manuel get the same three years of development in an NFL program, even though that doesn't count to some people around here, before pronouncing him a bust? GO BILLS!!!
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 11, 2014 Posted April 11, 2014 Great, bring in Tebow! A quick question....what quality teams did he play his senior year? Do tell? You are talking about racking up yards against the ACC....which is like saying I scored with a chick i met in a house of ill-repute (chippewa street?). What are you talking about? You realize Manuel as a rookie had better stats than Tebow as a 2nd year player right? And Manuel didn't have Decker and Thomas to throw too. Good hyperbole though. Manuel gets a bad rap because a red shirt freshman took over for him and won a National Championship. Whether that's fair or not is up for debate, but it points to Manuel holding that team back, not vice versa. 1) Tennessee never beat Florida with Peyton Manning and as a result, they never competed for a national championship. The year after he leaves, Tee Martin beats Florida and wins a national championship. Things aren't always black and white. 2) Winston might be the best QB prospect since Luck. 3) Winston took over a 12-2 team. Hardly some huge rebuilding project. 4) Winston has said himself how much learning under EJ helped him. He simply DIDN'T suck. The fact is the Packers were so convinced he was their man, that when the Bayou Bumpkin changed his mind and decided to return, the Pack shipped his azz to NY and pronounced Rodgers 'The Man'. Anyone here who's ready to pronounce Manuel 'The Man' needs to be shipped off to NYC too. Aaron Rodger threw 1 td and 1 int his first 3 years. The Packers went 6-10 in first year as a starter, his 4th year in the league. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RodgAa00.htm No one knows how Manuel will turn out. But it's a fact there would be a lot of morons here who would have been ready to give up Aaron Rodgers early in his career too. Patience is dead.
Chandler#81 Posted April 11, 2014 Posted April 11, 2014 Rodgers came into the league with as many question marks as EJ Manuel. And he looked pretty bad in the spot duty he got his first couple years; flat out sucked balls. Does Manuel get the same three years of development in an NFL program, even though that doesn't count to some people around here, before pronouncing him a bust? GO BILLS!!! Fairly certain the guy he played behind set a record for most consecutive games played, rendering his back up in spot duty, clean-up or whipping boy in lopsided losses. Perhaps, and it's just a thought- EJ could 'suck balls' as a back-up for us for a few years. Starter? Hell No!
K-9 Posted April 11, 2014 Posted April 11, 2014 Fairly certain the guy he played behind set a record for most consecutive games played, rendering his back up in spot duty, clean-up or whipping boy in lopsided losses. Perhaps, and it's just a thought- EJ could 'suck balls' as a back-up for us for a few years. Starter? Hell No! The point is, Rodgers was very far from being ready and it showed. Like I said, he had as many questions coming in as Manuel does. It would be preferential to all that EJ Manuel have the same opportunity to learn behind a 1st ballot HOFer for his first three years, but that's not in the cards. It's all OTJT and while there are benefits to that, the learning curve is far steeper and the pressure much greater. We are either patient with the developmental process or not. In the meantime, rest easy knowing he's gonna have you pulling your hair out at times and marveling at his ability at others. GO BILLS!!!
BigBuff423 Posted April 11, 2014 Posted April 11, 2014 Great, bring in Tebow! A quick question....what quality teams did he play his senior year? Do tell? You are talking about racking up yards against the ACC....which is like saying I scored with a chick i met in a house of ill-repute (chippewa street?). And this is the same garbage ACC you're talking about that just had a player at EJ's same position, from his alma mater win the Heisman Trophy?? Is it possible, just possible, that you're not exactly being well-balanced in your perspective? ACC is a BCS Conference and Winston just won the Heisman from Florida State...I don't think I should really have to say anything more to validate the existence and competition of the ACC and how that would be retroactively applicable to EJ considering it was just one year prior...so I won't....if you honestly take issue with the ACC, then there's not much myself or anyone else can say to have a good-hearted, well-informed debate...you don't like EJ as the BILLS QB, all fine and good, but to question what football conference he came from, makes very little sense to me...check that, it makes NO sense to me...
chris heff Posted April 11, 2014 Posted April 11, 2014 Fairly certain the guy he played behind set a record for most consecutive games played, rendering his back up in spot duty, clean-up or whipping boy in lopsided losses. Perhaps, and it's just a thought- EJ could 'suck balls' as a back-up for us for a few years. Starter? Hell No! And that guy was traded away by Atlanta, how'd that work out for Atlanta? Drew Brees was let walk. Alex Smith, bust? I could go back to Pittsburg releasing Unitas. Someone, not just a fan decided that those guys weren't going to make it. Unitas, maybe the best ever in the HOF, Brees and Favre both go in HOF. As for Smith would you take him?
BigBuff423 Posted April 11, 2014 Posted April 11, 2014 (edited) By the standard, yes....but he is also good and has one of those shiny rings. did he have another college career i am unaware of? See my statements above...and to be clear, I said "competitive major football conference"...I didn't say "the best", which of course would be the SEC Edited April 11, 2014 by BigBuff423
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