K-9 Posted April 11, 2014 Posted April 11, 2014 With was one of his worst performances, yet against one of the best defensive coaches in the NFL, he had us in position to win. If we don't have Justin Rogers, we might have stole that game. I think that's safe to say. Justin Rogers lost that game a helluva lot more than EJ didn't win it. GO BILLS!!!
Jim in Anchorage Posted April 11, 2014 Posted April 11, 2014 Bills fans buzz words-"he's young" "all rookies make mistakes" And of course the ever popular "give him 3-4 years" I'll be dust, boxed and in the ground and this will still be going on. And the Bills still 6-10.
FLFan Posted April 11, 2014 Posted April 11, 2014 That's not fair. You're just bashing him because he put down a Bill. His track record of drafting 2 giant busts high in the draft have no bearing on this conversation at all. They have a bearing if you are putting any credence in Casserly's opinion on draftable QBs. Personally, I think there are probably a fair number of posters here who have more credibility.
juno999 Posted April 11, 2014 Posted April 11, 2014 I'm not sure that CC's point was all 7 or nothing. I sort of took at his comment to mean that there is better talent in terms of scouting and a deep enough pool that there should be guys from this class that will have better NFL careers than Manuel. Is that really even a bold prediction? Even if you ignored the players abilities completely and were going to simply play the odds, 7 chances to be right is better than 1. Either way though, it's pretty safe to assume CC is off the EJ bandwagon. I agree. From an odds standpoint, one of these 7 QBs will have a better career than EJ. However, If you listen to Casserly's statement, he rated ALL 7 ahead of EJ based on their college careers. Casserly, if he was still a GM, would take all 7 of these guys over EJ. Time will tell if EJ is the real deal. Here's hoping that he is!
Beerball Posted April 11, 2014 Posted April 11, 2014 While there is no substitute for game action and missing six games was the single largest factor in stunting his development, we can't diminish the developmental aspects of being on an NFL team in and of itself. He's deriving benefits from all those meetings, breaking down film, learning off the field, etc. He's not gonna be a wide-eyed rookie like those coming in this year. He's got a year of forming the essential relationships with teammates and coaches under his belt. I think that's a huge step in the process of making the team his own. And make no mistake, a team HAS to belong to the QB. It just doesn't work otherwise. GO BILLS!!! Damn, I'm still getting used to these ground rules. When a "hater" talks about Manuel not showing enough in his first season the first line of defense is "it was only 10 games, you can't make a determination based on 10 games." When an anti-hater (I've got several titles that are much more descriptive, but, alas I cannot use them) needs to demonstrate that EJ's experience gives him a leg up on the 7 QBs who would definitively be chosen before him this draft then he has a year's experience. Learning all the time. Bills fans buzz words-"he's young" "all rookies make mistakes" And of course the ever popular "give him 3-4 years" I'll be dust, boxed and in the ground and this will still be going on. And the Bills still 6-10. That's what I'm talking about!
Dorkington Posted April 11, 2014 Posted April 11, 2014 Bills fans buzz words-"he's young" "all rookies make mistakes" And of course the ever popular "give him 3-4 years" I'll be dust, boxed and in the ground and this will still be going on. And the Bills still 6-10. Because unless a rookie QB takes an imperfect team to the playoffs, he's crap. Our defense lost us a few games last year, our o-line is crap, our TE and WRs are mediocre at best. Yet EJ, is expected to shoulder all that, and take the team to Superbowl glory.
Beerball Posted April 11, 2014 Posted April 11, 2014 Because unless a rookie QB takes an imperfect team to the playoffs, he's crap. Our defense lost us a few games last year, our o-line is crap, our TE and WRs are mediocre at best. Yet EJ, is expected to shoulder all that, and take the team to Superbowl glory. Yes, that is exactly, 110% an accurate recap of JiA's post. Fine job. (work for the AP?)
Jim in Anchorage Posted April 11, 2014 Posted April 11, 2014 (edited) Damn, I'm still getting used to these ground rules. When a "hater" talks about Manuel not showing enough in his first season the first line of defense is "it was only 10 games, you can't make a determination based on 10 games." When an anti-hater (I've got several titles that are much more descriptive, but, alas I cannot use them) needs to demonstrate that EJ's experience gives him a leg up on the 7 QBs who would definitively be chosen before him this draft then he has a year's experience. Learning all the time. That's what I'm talking about! Having a good seat on the bench counts as game experience. You know that. Edited April 11, 2014 by Jim in Anchorage
Jerryg1983 Posted April 11, 2014 Posted April 11, 2014 There are 32 better gm's better than Casserly. He knows quarterbacks right? Drafted Heath Shuler and David Carr
YoloinOhio Posted April 11, 2014 Posted April 11, 2014 Great, great stat. Agreed and based on his track record, CC being off the EJ bandwagon is a good thing. Sorry boss. I was being super sarcastic. I totally agree with you. I was projecting what BillsVet response would be. With was one of his worst performances, yet against one of the best defensive coaches in the NFL, he had us in position to win. If we don't have Justin Rogers, we might have stole that game. Right - he had a rookie game on the road against Rex Ryan's D but was able to pull it together and rally to tie at the end before Geno beat our D. Yes, it was a our backups, but if that was the offense then some would blame Hackett for calling the wrong play instead of placing any accountability on Pettine for getting lit up by Geno. Gilmore, McK and Byrd were all out. I don't care, it was Geno Smith and gimpy Santonio Holmes.
SlamnSam Posted April 11, 2014 Posted April 11, 2014 I know for a fact that manuel is done. Hes been hurt how many times in his first year? Hell he got hurt in preseason. His best games were in the preseason and he went downhill every game after that. There is no more to prove. Move on Buffalo you made a bad pick. This guy got outplayed by a practice squad QB. All I hear is its his first year. No one notes that the practice squad guy outplays him. Its Buffalo fans wanting to hold on to the hope that a genie will appear and manuel will somehow explode into a great QB. He is a mediocre qb at best. He will never be anything better than average He always has been average and he always will be. Come on management admit the mistake and draft a real QB this year and flush manuel.
YoloinOhio Posted April 11, 2014 Posted April 11, 2014 I know for a fact that manuel is done. Hes been hurt how many times in his first year? Hell he got hurt in preseason. His best games were in the preseason and he went downhill every game after that. There is no more to prove. Move on Buffalo you made a bad pick. This guy got outplayed by a practice squad QB. All I hear is its his first year. No one notes that the practice squad guy outplays him. Its Buffalo fans wanting to hold on to the hope that a genie will appear and manuel will somehow explode into a great QB. He is a mediocre qb at best. He will never be anything better than average He always has been average and he always will be. Come on management admit the mistake and draft a real QB this year and flush manuel. ?
K-9 Posted April 11, 2014 Posted April 11, 2014 Damn, I'm still getting used to these ground rules. When a "hater" talks about Manuel not showing enough in his first season the first line of defense is "it was only 10 games, you can't make a determination based on 10 games." When an anti-hater (I've got several titles that are much more descriptive, but, alas I cannot use them) needs to demonstrate that EJ's experience gives him a leg up on the 7 QBs who would definitively be chosen before him this draft then he has a year's experience. Learning all the time. That's what I'm talking about! Why do you insist on picking fights where none exists? I don't get bogged down in the "hater" vs. lover crap. If you want to only include game experience in the equation, fine. I happen to think his ENTIRE exposure to the NFL matters greatly and it gives him a decided edge in the developmental process over rookies coming in. But based STRICTLY on their college careers, I think Casserly is right. Still doesn't mean I can easily dismiss a year's worth of experience though. Every QB in this draft STILL has as much to prove at the next level as Manuel. That's all that matters anyway. How about we wait to see how their careers pan out before declaring anything as fact. GO BILLS!!!
thebandit27 Posted April 11, 2014 Posted April 11, 2014 Having a good seat on the bench counts as game experience. You know that. So it's your position that spending time with an NFL team in practice, meetings, conditioning programs, training camp, etc provides no experience? I know for a fact that manuel is done. Hes been hurt how many times in his first year? Hell he got hurt in preseason. His best games were in the preseason and he went downhill every game after that. There is no more to prove. Move on Buffalo you made a bad pick. This guy got outplayed by a practice squad QB. All I hear is its his first year. No one notes that the practice squad guy outplays him. Its Buffalo fans wanting to hold on to the hope that a genie will appear and manuel will somehow explode into a great QB. He is a mediocre qb at best. He will never be anything better than average He always has been average and he always will be. Come on management admit the mistake and draft a real QB this year and flush manuel. No, you don't know it for a fact, and even if your OPINION is proven right in the end, you still won't have known it. You may think it, believe it, suspect it, etc, but because it hasn't happened yet, you don't know it. That's a lesson in life that it took me a LONG time to learn--I don't actually know everything, and I'm not always right. Please don't be like me.
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 11, 2014 Posted April 11, 2014 They have a bearing if you are putting any credence in Casserly's opinion on draftable QBs. Personally, I think there are probably a fair number of posters here who have more credibility. Agreed. I don't think any position in sports is as hard to evaluate as QB. So many factors that are hard to measure. So anyone pretending like they are an expert is just full of it.
YoloinOhio Posted April 11, 2014 Posted April 11, 2014 I saw this tweet and I agree with it: Chris Trapasso @ChrisTrapasso 5m Injuries were easily most worrisome aspect of EJ Manuel's 2013. Had 3 bad games/4 "eh" games/3 great games. Par for the course for a rookie.
LB3 Posted April 11, 2014 Posted April 11, 2014 It amazes me how thin skinned some on here are. Some take every chance available to take offense to a perceived slight. Here's a quote for those of you who feel vilified for your positive/negative opinions on Manuel: "You know what I'm going to get for you for Christmas, (insert either "Hater" or "Hugger")? A big wooden cross, so that every time you feel unappreciated for your sacrifices, you can climb on up and nail yourself to it."
Beerball Posted April 11, 2014 Posted April 11, 2014 Why do you insist on picking fights where none exists? I don't get bogged down in the "hater" vs. lover crap. If you want to only include game experience in the equation, fine. I happen to think his ENTIRE exposure to the NFL matters greatly and it gives him a decided edge in the developmental process over rookies coming in. But based STRICTLY on their college careers, I think Casserly is right. Still doesn't mean I can easily dismiss a year's worth of experience though. Every QB in this draft STILL has as much to prove at the next level as Manuel. That's all that matters anyway. How about we wait to see how their careers pan out before declaring anything as fact. GO BILLS!!! Pointing out inconsistencies is picking fights? Perhaps if you didn't view me as a hater you wouldn't take my words so harshly. Yes, I think that is it. Your task Mr. 9., should you decide to accept it, is to come up with an acceptable term for those on the other side of the Manuel equation. This post will unfortunately not self-destruct in 5 seconds. I'd also like to let you know that you shouldn't take me as seriously as you take yourself. This is a fun place. I don't pick fights, that would be silly.
zow2 Posted April 11, 2014 Posted April 11, 2014 I'm on the fence about EJ but leaning towards the "he's not the guy" side. I can't get past the Pittsburgh and Tampa games which were just dreadful. People point to the Carolina game but i can't shake the 4th Qtr INT and strip sack that luckily the D bailed him out on. Yes he dinked and dunked downfield and Stevie drew a big PI penalty to help win it. I'm OK with giving him year 2 because we'll never know unless he gets this year. Right now i see basically a poor man's Jason Campbell not the next great franchise QB.
juno999 Posted April 11, 2014 Posted April 11, 2014 Great, great stat. Agreed and based on his track record, CC being off the EJ bandwagon is a good thing. Sorry boss. I was being super sarcastic. I totally agree with you. I was projecting what BillsVet response would be. With was one of his worst performances, yet against one of the best defensive coaches in the NFL, he had us in position to win. If we don't have Justin Rogers, we might have stole that game. Sarcasm! Love it. I missed your prior post 194. Go Bills!
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