thebandit27 Posted April 11, 2014 Posted April 11, 2014 Can't agree with this at all. While he needs to be consistent in that regard, he demonstrated on several occasions last year that he can look at a defense and take what it gives him, especially at crunch time, especially early in the year before his knee injury. Additionally, he and Hackett showed promise in making halftime adjustments and moving the ball well to start second halves. That's shows an understanding of what defenses are doing and exploiting it. Consistency is the key, but that's not surprising for any young player, especially a QB. GO BILLS!!! I was going to point that out as well...in fact, I think the best example of "take what they give you and make it work" was the Cleveland game before he got hurt. Ray Horton threw everything he had at EJ, and he still played pretty well despite losing Stevie and having a few drops.
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted April 11, 2014 Posted April 11, 2014 Well any guy is a QB guru, it's the guy who drafted Heath Shuler and David Carr with top 5 picks!!! Everyone has opinions and it's his. But given his personal track record with QBs and the fact he looks like the white Grinch, excuse me if I ignore his. Good Call Biscuit!!! I saw Casserly say this and I wondered what his motivation was? Production meetings for TV shows are funny thing. You take this side and Charley you take this side. The bottom line is no one knows who will succeed. It is all a guess. You find a guy that fits and do your best to develop him..then hope for some good fortune. As a follow-up to Casserly: Saying the field is better than Manuel is kind of like taking the field at a golf tournament.
K-9 Posted April 11, 2014 Posted April 11, 2014 I was going to point that out as well...in fact, I think the best example of "take what they give you and make it work" was the Cleveland game before he got hurt. Ray Horton threw everything he had at EJ, and he still played pretty well despite losing Stevie and having a few drops. Pats*, Panthers, and Browns games all stand out as examples of what we're talking about. Falcons game later as well. And even though it may be a negative example to some, he did a great job of shaking off a horrendous start vs. the Jags as well. That's HUGE in terms of development. GO BILLS!!!
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 11, 2014 Posted April 11, 2014 Good Call Biscuit!!! I saw Casserly say this and I wondered what his motivation was? Production meetings for TV shows are funny thing. You take this side and Charley you take this side. The bottom line is no one knows who will succeed. It is all a guess. You find a guy that fits and do your best to develop him..then hope for some good fortune. As a follow-up to Casserly: Saying the field is better than Manuel is kind of like taking the field at a golf tournament. Good post. Anyone who says they know how Manuel will be one way or the other is just liar at this point. People act like he had the worst rookie season ever. His rookie QB rating was higher than Luck's rookie year! Obviously, I want EJ to succeed since I'm a Bills fan. But I especially want him to succeed to throw it back in a lot of people's fans. It's embarrassing how people just give up on young players, much less a QB who missed 2 weeks of his first training camp.
thebandit27 Posted April 11, 2014 Posted April 11, 2014 Pats*, Panthers, and Browns games all stand out as examples of what we're talking about. Falcons game later as well. And even though it may be a negative example to some, he did a great job of shaking off a horrendous start vs. the Jags as well. That's HUGE in terms of development. GO BILLS!!! Glad you brought up the Jax game...despite how well EJ played against the Jets, the Jags game was the one that I was most pleased with for that exact reason. He was coming off of his worst game of the season, and needed to play well...he came out flat and erratic. That first quarter was brutal, and honestly had me thinking that he might be heading to crash-and-burn territory. The fact that he went 17-20 with 2 TD passes and a TD run the rest of the way showed me a LOT. Again, it wasn't his best game statistically, but the resilience was magnanimous in terms of showing the mindset a QB needs to succeed in this league.
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 11, 2014 Posted April 11, 2014 (edited) Pats*, Panthers, and Browns games all stand out as examples of what we're talking about. Falcons game later as well. And even though it may be a negative example to some, he did a great job of shaking off a horrendous start vs. the Jags as well. That's HUGE in terms of development. GO BILLS!!! Strongly disagree. There were 0 positives from EJ. Johnny Football would have thrown for 400 yards in the 2nd Jets game in that wind storm. And if the Panthers game was so good, why couldn't EJ get 4 more yards to get 300 yards passing? Also, why couldn't EJ keep the lead against NE & ATL, and he called an awful defensive game against Brandon Weeden. BUST!!!! Edited April 11, 2014 by C.Biscuit97
juno999 Posted April 11, 2014 Posted April 11, 2014 Does this mean Casserly is officially not liked by TSW? And why hasn't anyone found a single bad draft pick during his time as a GM to demonstrate without question that he doesn't know what he's talking about? Then again, picking QB's when you have to isn't usually a recipe for success. And with the 3rd overall pick of the 1994 draft, the Washington Redskins select Heath Shuler, QB, Tennessee. And with the first pick of the 2002 NFL Draft, the Houston Texans select David Carr, QB, Fresno State. Both teams were run by GM Charley Casserly at the time of these selections. Picking QBs is difficult as demonstrated by the number of busts. Casserly was former GM Bobby Beatherd's right hand man for the Skins. Once Casserly was on his own he didn't do as well.
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 11, 2014 Posted April 11, 2014 And with the 3rd overall pick of the 1994 draft, the Washington Redskins select Heath Shuler, QB, Tennessee. And with the first pick of the 2002 NFL Draft, the Houston Texans select David Carr, QB, Fresno State. Both teams were run by GM Charley Casserly at the time of these selections. Picking QBs is difficult as demonstrated by the number of busts. Casserly was former GM Bobby Beatherd's right hand man for the Skins. Once Casserly was on his own he didn't do as well. That's not fair. You're just bashing him because he put down a Bill. His track record of drafting 2 giant busts high in the draft have no bearing on this conversation at all.
Dorkington Posted April 11, 2014 Posted April 11, 2014 Wow, I totally disagree with that. I actually think he has shown that he has the 'it' factor with his ability to be clutch and lead great 2 minute drills to close out halves and games. How much 'it' factor are you really expecting a rookie QB to have, especially on a team still rebuilding as we were last year? Obviously he has to improve, but I think Manuel showed more promise that he can become a special QB than any other one we've had since Kelly. Fitz had flashes of great play but was/is a journeyman type guy. EJ's 2 minute drill stats: CMP ATT YDS CMP% AVG LNG TD INT SACK RAT 27 40 231 67.5 5.78 23 3 0 1 107.4
juno999 Posted April 11, 2014 Posted April 11, 2014 That's not fair. You're just bashing him because he put down a Bill. His track record of drafting 2 giant busts high in the draft have no bearing on this conversation at all. I was pointing out to Bills Vet that Casserly has made some bad picks and backed it up with 2 real examples. As far as EJ goes, to me the jury is still out. Time will tell but I don't think all 7 of those QBs pointed out by Casserly will have better careers than Manuel. If Casserly is so good why is he on TV and no longer a GM?
Beerball Posted April 11, 2014 Posted April 11, 2014 "Based on their college career." There is nothing wrong with that assessment, it's fair. It's also fair to say that no QB in this year's draft has more potential in terms of raw physical ability, either. And there's no discounting the one year head start EJ has in terms of NFL development. GO BILLS!!! To be fair we should remember that he only gets credit for a 10 game head start. The 70%ers. GO BILLS!!! No, haters is very mean spirited. We need something similarly mean spirited to describe the other side of the fence.
Dorkington Posted April 11, 2014 Posted April 11, 2014 (edited) For those interested, his splits: http://espn.go.com/n...15803/ej-manuel To me, he performed well in 2 minute drills, not great in 4th quarters though. Played well at home, not on the road. Did not perform well on 3rd downs, but did ok on first two downs. Played well when tied, ok when behind, poorly when ahead. Played well in close games while behind, very poorly when very behind. This all reads, to me, as someone who's a rookie, personally. A lot of this stuff is mental/dealing with pressure. I have faith in his skills. But I'm not sold on the coaches that are in charge of his development, which is really depressing. --- Also, surprisingly, performed well against the blitz, but when he had to deal with better coverage, he struggled. Edited April 11, 2014 by Dorkington
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted April 11, 2014 Posted April 11, 2014 We judge most rookies as busts here on TBD, well before their first season is over. DOH. How could I forget that.
K-9 Posted April 11, 2014 Posted April 11, 2014 To be fair we should remember that he only gets credit for a 10 game head start. While there is no substitute for game action and missing six games was the single largest factor in stunting his development, we can't diminish the developmental aspects of being on an NFL team in and of itself. He's deriving benefits from all those meetings, breaking down film, learning off the field, etc. He's not gonna be a wide-eyed rookie like those coming in this year. He's got a year of forming the essential relationships with teammates and coaches under his belt. I think that's a huge step in the process of making the team his own. And make no mistake, a team HAS to belong to the QB. It just doesn't work otherwise. GO BILLS!!!
YoloinOhio Posted April 11, 2014 Posted April 11, 2014 Strongly disagree. There were 0 positives from EJ. Johnny Football would have thrown for 400 yards in the 2nd Jets game in that wind storm. And if the Panthers game was so good, why couldn't EJ get 4 more yards to get 300 yards passing? Also, why couldn't EJ keep the lead against NE & ATL, and he called an awful defensive game against Brandon Weeden. BUST!!!! And the 1st Jets game, which he tied up with a couple minutes to go.
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted April 11, 2014 Posted April 11, 2014 some top QB busts most current first Josh Freeman Mark Sanchez JaMarcus Russell Vince Young Matt Leinart David Carr Joey Harrington Tim Couch Akili Smith Cade McNown Ryan Leaf Rick Mirer David Klingler
Sisyphean Bills Posted April 11, 2014 Posted April 11, 2014 I was pointing out to Bills Vet that Casserly has made some bad picks and backed it up with 2 real examples. As far as EJ goes, to me the jury is still out. Time will tell but I don't think all 7 of those QBs pointed out by Casserly will have better careers than Manuel. If Casserly is so good why is he on TV and no longer a GM? I'm not sure that CC's point was all 7 or nothing. I sort of took at his comment to mean that there is better talent in terms of scouting and a deep enough pool that there should be guys from this class that will have better NFL careers than Manuel. Is that really even a bold prediction? Even if you ignored the players abilities completely and were going to simply play the odds, 7 chances to be right is better than 1. Either way though, it's pretty safe to assume CC is off the EJ bandwagon.
smapdi Posted April 11, 2014 Posted April 11, 2014 (edited) While EJ may one day be able to be a starting QB, he obviously is missing the "it" factor. He does not have the ability to manage a game, think through the Defense, and attack it. I believe that is something you can learn but never be totally successful because it is not natural and under fire he will lose that ability. For at reason I will go against he crowd and predict the Bills will draft a QB in round 1 Totally disagree I was at the Carolina game & he totally had whatever "it" is on the final drive of that game. I think if all the pieces come together with the o-line, that is the type of Manuel we can get. I was talking to my seatmates & we all agreed that there was a different feeling in the air at The Ralph when the Bills took possession for the game winning drive. Usually that's a 3 and out punt with Dick Jauron or a INT with past Bills offenses. Manuel had "it" on that drive for sure. CAR was't just some bottom feeder; they were an elite team. The best pass rushing defense in the league and Manuel kept it together & led his team down the field. Especially loved the fact he didn't try and hog the glory by trying to force it in with 3 seconds left on that scramble. He used his head and realized he had no chance so he got out of bounds & let his playmakers finish the job for him... easy TD catch by Stevie. That really impressed me. You don't see too many rookies NOT go for the TD there. No timeouts so game is over if he gets stopped. Really smart play by the kid. Casserly is a clown. There is a reason he's stuck behind a desk on a cable show instead of running an actual NFL team. Someone should have asked him if he thinks Manuel will be better then Heath Shuler or David Carr? Edited April 11, 2014 by smapdi
Sisyphean Bills Posted April 11, 2014 Posted April 11, 2014 While there is no substitute for game action and missing six games was the single largest factor in stunting his development, we can't diminish the developmental aspects of being on an NFL team in and of itself. He's deriving benefits from all those meetings, breaking down film, learning off the field, etc. He's not gonna be a wide-slow eyed rookie like those coming in this year. He's got a year of forming the essential relationships with teammates and coaches under his belt. I think that's a huge step in the process of making the team his own. And make no mistake, a team HAS to belong to the QB. It just doesn't work otherwise. GO BILLS!!! Fixed.
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 11, 2014 Posted April 11, 2014 EJ's 2 minute drill stats: CMP ATT YDS CMP% AVG LNG TD INT SACK RAT 27 40 231 67.5 5.78 23 3 0 1 107.4 Great, great stat. I'm not sure that CC's point was all 7 or nothing. I sort of took it his comment to mean that there is better talent in terms of scouting and a deep enough pool that there should be guys from this class that will have better NFL careers than Manuel. Is that really even a bold prediction? Even if you ignored the players abilities completely and were going to simply play the odds, 7 chances to be right is better than 1. Either way though, it's pretty safe to assume CC is off the EJ bandwagon. Agreed and based on his track record, CC being off the EJ bandwagon is a good thing. I was pointing out to Bills Vet that Casserly has made some bad picks and backed it up with 2 real examples. As far as EJ goes, to me the jury is still out. Time will tell but I don't think all 7 of those QBs pointed out by Casserly will have better careers than Manuel. If Casserly is so good why is he on TV and no longer a GM? Sorry boss. I was being super sarcastic. I totally agree with you. I was projecting what BillsVet response would be. And the 1st Jets game, which he tied up with a couple minutes to go. With was one of his worst performances, yet against one of the best defensive coaches in the NFL, he had us in position to win. If we don't have Justin Rogers, we might have stole that game.
Recommended Posts