Who believes in Manuel?

[bigK14094]

Just read an article on NBC Sports (don't know how to get a link) on how Charlie Cassely thinks that EJ Manuel would rank #8 in this years QB draft class......list those he thinks are better. (the usual suspects on that list) pretty discouraging as a Bills fan. Now, CC is not all seeing, but, after watching EJ all season, I have to say he hasn't shown much yet......in either escapability or arm strength/accuracy. He needs to show or move over this year. The Bills are woefully thin at QB, and not a prospect of a move to strengthen. I guess they have no choice but to let EJ have another season to develope. Gm and Head coach jobs on the line with this, I think. although, perhaps the trust in charge/Brandon will not rock the boat during a sale activity.

[Big Blitz]

I think this league has gotten absolutely ridiculous when it comes to developing quarterbacks. I know the college game is far more advanced offensively than it was twenty years ago but NFL offenses and defenses are more complex than ever. Yet we expect rookies to come in immediately and perform like ten year vets. I dont know how Manuel will wind up but its way to early to call it a day on him. Sub par o-line. Average to Below average tight ends. Below average receiving core(because of their youth). Your best RB was hurt all year plus a rookie coordinator and for some inexplicable reason many feel anything less than 40 tds 10 ints 4500 yards and a 70% completion percentage was unacceptable. This year is key. If he can get his completion percentage above 60, throw for 25 tds and keep the ints below fifteen and throw for at least 3500 yards that will be progress. Those are comparable to Russell Wilsons numbers last year. Buffalo runs an offense that is much closer to seattle and san fran than denver. If he throws for more than 4000 yards with the others numbers being around the same as above it will be a phenomenal seaon for him. Would also like the yards per attempt get above 7. If there isnt significant improvement this year thats a problem and your probably going to want to draft someone again next year. Lets see. Lazy disinterested drug addicted bust vs. EJ. Real solid comparison. Typical EJ hater comment. Ill bet you'd love him if he was getting in bar fights and had a dozen domestic battery convictions. Dan Marino is the only one I can think of and as we all know that candy a$$ never won a superbowl.

 

 

Dude....read the last 3 pages....that was a joke. I wasn't making that comparison.

[John from Riverside]

He does not and has never had a "feel" for the game. That's all there is to it. He's not going to ever go out there and anticipate and confidently zip the ball around manipulating and destroying defenses. He's a cautious "take what is there" QB. Not going to be anything better than average (at best).

 

Must have been tough winning all those bowl games in college with EJ Manuel at QB huh?

[Kemp2Warlick]

Must have been tough winning all those bowl games in college with EJ Manuel at QB huh?

...College football...a lot of good college players do not make it in the NFL...Remember Tebow?

[Garranimal]

Clemson, NC State, Boston College, Miami, VA Tech, Maryland, Florida, GA Tech and maybe Duke. All of these are big time programs. All college teams play some door mats. Go look at who Central Florida played last year or Louisville and you'll see the same thing. What's your point?

Ok....so you basically are an ACC guy....because not one of those teams is a decent team other than Florida that year (who drubbed them pretty soundly). The rest are ACC little sisters of the poor....

[John from Riverside]

...College football...a lot of good college players do not make it in the NFL...Remember Tebow?

 

And Tebow was given his chance to see if he could improve and grow from his rookie year.....

 

so why are we so quick to not give EJ that chance?

[Beerball]

And Tebow was given his chance to see if he could improve and grow from his rookie year.....

 

so why are we so quick to not give EJ that chance?

I'm happy to give him the chance, but, as I've said all along...if a QB is there who the FO likes, regardless of round they better grab him. Competition is not a bad thing.

[Rocky Landing]

I hate this misconception. Just about everything posted on here is ISO. It's not necessary to put after every little thing, ESPECIALLY when the point clearly is not a fact.

 

Not to mention the fact that IMO hurts an argument. Why would you ever admit you might be wrong? Stick to your convictions.

Admitting that you might be wrong is a symptom of an active, and open mind. Plus, it helps engage those that you are debating by giving them a sense that there may, indeed, be a reason to debate you. I was being a bit snarky in referencing the "IMO" tag. But, my point is that to state a prediction as something that is incontrovertible fact (as was the poster I was replying to, and many others on these boards), hurts one's argument far more than "IMO" by making them seem close-minded, and immune to counterpoint. "I don't believe that EJ will ever be above average," sounds a lot more intelligent than, "EJ will never be above average."

 

IMO.

 

(Personally, I fear, and suspect that EJ will not develop into an above average QB. But, I would be an idiot to simply say "he never will" and, to quote the poster I was criticizing, "that's all there is to it.")

Edited April 12, 2014 by Rocky Landing

[Beerball]

I hate this misconception. Just about everything posted on here is ISO. It's not necessary to put after every little thing, ESPECIALLY when the point clearly is not a fact.

 

Not to mention the fact that IMO hurts an argument. Why would you ever admit you might be wrong? Stick to your convictions.

boy, you've got a lot to learn

 

or you've already learned sarcasm

[FireChan]

Admitting that you might be wrong is a symptom of an active, and open mind. Plus, it helps engage those that you are debating by giving them a sense that there may, indeed, be a reason to debate you. I was being a bit snarky in referencing the "IMO" tag. But, my point is that to state a prediction as something that is incontrovertible fact (as was the poster I was replying to, and many others on these boards), hurts one's argument far more than "IMO" by making them seem close-minded, and immune to counterpoint. "I don't believe that EJ will ever be above average," sounds a lot more intelligent than, "EJ will never be above average."

 

IMO.

 

(Personally, I fear, and suspect that EJ will not develop into an above average QB. But, I would be an idiot to simply say "he never will" and, to quote the poster I was criticizing, "that's all there is to it.")

 

I only said that because I know the lack of IMO's used to annoy Beerball.

 

boy, you've got a lot to learn

 

or you've already learned sarcasm

 

See?

 

I'm just hoping to ignite the first annual TBD Fight Club, set one day before every draft.

[John from Riverside]

I'm happy to give him the chance, but, as I've said all along...if a QB is there who the FO likes, regardless of round they better grab him. Competition is not a bad thing.

 

I guess its just two different trains of thought.....

 

My thought is.....give the kid a chance to show he can do it by giving him proper weapons and protection. I dont feel that you do that by using high picks on another quarterback.......

 

then

 

If he doesnt take a steps forward this year.....well then we are all in on another 1st round QB next year.

 

I feel like the Luck draft really messed up conceptions of what a 1st round QB is supposed to come out and do in that first year....I am not even sure if the plan was to even START him and they really wanted Kolb to be the placeholder......but this is where we are at.

[Heitz]

FWIW, EJ is putting in work with Stevie and a couple other guys today - he put a pic up on Insta. Says something that they're out together working...

[John from Riverside]

Heitz.....besides from the natural talents that EJ has going in his favor this is the single biggest thing that makes me believe he will succeed.....

 

He is willing to work...he has spent all offseason working on his weaknesses with a trainer.....and the bills invested in a QB coach this year (for the life of me I never understood the lack of one last year)

 

Throwing recievers open comes with being comfortable with the receivers and confidence that they will make a play on the ball.....and timing with the receivers. That only comes with reps.....not mental reps being hurt on the side line but actually physical throws.

 

Im extremely hopeful

[Beerball]

I guess its just two different trains of thought.....

 

My thought is.....give the kid a chance to show he can do it by giving him proper weapons and protection. I dont feel that you do that by using high picks on another quarterback.......

 

then

 

If he doesnt take a steps forward this year.....well then we are all in on another 1st round QB next year.

 

I feel like the Luck draft really messed up conceptions of what a 1st round QB is supposed to come out and do in that first year....I am not even sure if the plan was to even START him and they really wanted Kolb to be the placeholder......but this is where we are at.

I get the need for Manuel to get experience (& weapons/protection). The part I don't 'like' about your post is "well then we are all in on another 1st round QB next year." To me that's a day late & a dollar short. I understand the thought, I just don't agree with it. I don't know who will be available in rounds 1-3, nobody does. What's better though, taking a QB because you think he's worth the pick this year or taking a first round (or recycling a vet) QB next year because you have to? (and everyone knows it)

[hondo in seattle]

Just read an article on NBC Sports (don't know how to get a link) on how Charlie Cassely thinks that EJ Manuel would rank #8 in this years QB draft class......list those he thinks are better. (the usual suspects on that list) pretty discouraging as a Bills fan. Now, CC is not all seeing, but, after watching EJ all season, I have to say he hasn't shown much yet......in either escapability or arm strength/accuracy. He needs to show or move over this year. The Bills are woefully thin at QB, and not a prospect of a move to strengthen. I guess they have no choice but to let EJ have another season to develope. Gm and Head coach jobs on the line with this, I think. although, perhaps the trust in charge/Brandon will not rock the boat during a sale activity.

 

If Casserly wasn't a smart guy, he wouldn't have lasted 3 decades in the NFL. I think he was the Assistant GM for 1 or 2 of the Redskins Super Bowls.

 

Then again, as GM he once picked Heath Shuler with the 3rd overall pick. Even smart personnel guys are often wrong about QBs. We all remember who Bill Walsh liked.

 

EJ only played 10 games last year. They weren't great games. Then again, most QBs have poor-to-mediocre rookie seasons. No one can yet say with any certainty what kind of QB EJ will be in his sophomore year. All we can do is wait and learn.

 

In my mind, QB is neither a strength nor a weakness for the Bills. It's a question mark.

[DOGNESS]

I get the need for Manuel to get experience (& weapons/protection). The part I don't 'like' about your post is "well then we are all in on another 1st round QB next year." To me that's a day late & a dollar short. I understand the thought, I just don't agree with it. I don't know who will be available in rounds 1-3, nobody does. What's better though, taking a QB because you think he's worth the pick this year or taking a first round (or recycling a vet) QB next year because you have to? (and everyone knows it)

I dont like the thought of burning a high pick on another QB when we still have plenty of holes. The Bills scouted this guy and decided he was worth a 1st round pick. Be committed and build around him. The book on Manuel was that he was one of the most talented QB's last year, but was raw. As Ive said before. New rookie coordinator. Young receiving corps. Sub par o-line. Average to below average TE. As they get better, EJ will get better. Jim Kelly was average at best his first four years here. Add lofton and get reed and thomas some experience and the 1990 bills offense evolves into one of the best. Not to mention the improvements they made on the o-line in his first four years.

[BillsBytheBay]

EJ will start next year. If he doesn't show any progress, we'll have a repeat of the last decade, get a new coach, and blow it up again. It feels like we all argue about the same chit every off-season about EJ/ Fitz/ Edwards(who I think compares to EJ well)/ Losman or whoever.

 

If a QB has a higher grade to the team than EJ did at the draft, they need to take him.

 

Pittsburgh knew they had their guy, Indy knew they had their guy, twice. Washington knew, Seattle knew, green bay knew. It doesn't take long to see. I don't see it in EJ. He's just Trent Edwards with an arm.

[Beerball]

EJ will start next year. If he doesn't show any progress, we'll have a repeat of the last decade, get a new coach, and blow it up again. It feels like we all argue about the same chit every off-season about EJ/ Fitz/ Edwards(who I think compares to EJ well)/ Losman or whoever.

 

If a QB has a higher grade to the team than EJ did at the draft, they need to take him.

 

Pittsburgh knew they had their guy, Indy knew they had their guy, twice. Washington knew, Seattle knew, green bay knew. It doesn't take long to see. I don't see it in EJ. He's just Trent Edwards with an arm.

Go back a ways further. It's been a sad procession since Kelly retired. Some of the best (worst) times here were Flutie/Johnson.

[BillsCelticsAngelsBama]

As soon as EJ can throw receivers open then I'm all in. For now Casserly is spot on. EJ is more of a project than Manziel, Bortles, Carr, McCarron or Garappolo.

[The Frankish Reich]

To me its simple: we drafted EJ to run a fast-paced, mobile quarterback, high read option component quarterback. A Cam Newton Jr., or a Colin Kaepernick II. Whether or not he can make it as an NFL starter remains doubtful. What is no longer doubtful is this: he had 3 knee surgeries in his first season. Hackett installed a no huddle/quick snap/mobile quarterback offense that had to be largely abandoned almost immediately when EJ had problems, and had to be completely abandoned after EJ messed up his knee running in the Browns game. In short, Manuel cannot run the type of offense they had in mind when they drafted him. Had they known that his knees would not withstand the NFL, they wouldn't have drafted him. They would have drafted someone else to run a standard pro style offense. I don't blame Nix or Brandon or Marrone for drafting him -- they didn't know his body wasn't suited for the style. But now we know that. Manuel isn't a lost cause yet; he still could show that he's able to run a more standard NFL offense. But they've already switched offenses on the fly, and it's pretty obvious to me that it would make sense to either (1) find a guy who could run the offense Hackett was hired to run, or (2) find a guy who is more adept than Manuel at running a standard NFL offense. Both options mean looking beyond EJ. Right now nobody's at fault, nobody's an idiot, nobody should be fired. Things changed -- things that no one could have anticipated -- and it would make sense to start thinking of a future that doesn't have EJ at quarterback. And if they can't do that, then I start to wonder whether someone should be fired.