Referendum to help the Bills stay in Buffalo?

[DC Grid]

Not being from NY, is there a mechanism for voting on single funding options, like in California and other states? I ask this because it would seem like this could be the surest way of guaranteeing the Bills would stay in Buffalo. Put a referendum on the ballot next election to fund the cost of a new stadium. It could be as simple as a pledge that Buffalo (Erie County) tax payers would fund the site location and construction of a new downtown stadium conditioned upon the new owner agreeing not to move the Bills for 80 years. I'm not saying this is a fair or great option; hardworking tax payers donating hundreds of millions of dollars to a billionaire is disgusting...but it might be necessary. Would the people of Buffalo go for this? An owner of the Bills faces the headwinds of a populous that can't afford high priced tickets, a local economy that is generally without big businesses to fill obscenely priced luxury boxes, and smaller local advertising options than they'd have in cities like LA, but the city could provide the land and build a stadium. It comes at a huge price, and I realize Buffalo isn't swimming in cash...but how much are people willing to give up to keep the Bills? For the locals in Buffalo, if it took a 1% city tax added to your paychecks or a 1% increase in the local sales tax would you vote for it?

[dwight in philly]

Not being from NY, is there a mechanism for voting on single funding options, like in California and other states? I ask this because it would seem like this could be the surest way of guaranteeing the Bills would stay in Buffalo. Put a referendum on the ballot next election to fund the cost of a new stadium. It could be as simple as a pledge that Buffalo (Erie County) tax payers would fund the site location and construction of a new downtown stadium conditioned upon the new owner agreeing not to move the Bills for 80 years. I'm not saying this is a fair or great option; hardworking tax payers donating hundreds of millions of dollars to a billionaire is disgusting...but it might be necessary. Would the people of Buffalo go for this? An owner of the Bills faces the headwinds of a populous that can't afford high priced tickets, a local economy that is generally without big businesses to fill obscenely priced luxury boxes, and smaller local advertising options than they'd have in cities like LA, but the city could provide the land and build a stadium. It comes at a huge price, and I realize Buffalo isn't swimming in cash...but how much are people willing to give up to keep the Bills? For the locals in Buffalo, if it took a 1% city tax added to your paychecks or a 1% increase in the local sales tax would you vote for it?

i would vote for it, but most would not, most are consumed by the govt and taxation.. i am in that camp , but i make an exception when it comes to the bills future.. if it comes to them staying or leaving, im a yes vote on using tax dollars to fund a stadium.. if not a stadium, what would those dollars be spent(wasted) on?

[Not at the table Karlos]

I would gladly pay a few dollars out of my check a week if it ment the bills would stay in buffalo

[Chandler#81]

JMO, but I think 80 years is way too long. IIRC, Rich Stadium was built with a 25 year deal. That seems more doable, but it's all in Mary's hands. In Mary We 'Trust'?

[Chef Jim]

I would gladly pay a few dollars out of my check a week if it ment the bills would stay in buffalo

 

What kind of checks would you write to keep me out?

[Max997]

The only way the Bills stay in Buffalo is if the next owner wants to keep them in Buffalo but if the new owner wants to move the team they will find a way to do so at some point

[mrags]

JMO, but I think 80 years is way too long. IIRC, Rich Stadium was built with a 25 year deal. That seems more doable, but it's all in Mary's hands. In Mary We 'Trust'?

i was gonna add that 80 years is very long as well. Was going to say 30 is about right.

[DC Grid]

i was gonna add that 80 years is very long as well. Was going to say 30 is about right.

 

I would pitch it as duration - tied to money. I figured $100 mil per decade....though the tax payers would have to pay it all up front. Assuming the cost of a new stadium (including land) is $800 mil. 8 decades seemed fair. But if they were building a cheaper stadium a 3 decade duration has merit. $800 mil for 30 years seems like a tough pill to swallow.

[mrags]

 

 

I would pitch it as duration - tied to money. I figured $100 mil per decade....though the tax payers would have to pay it all up front. Assuming the cost of a new stadium (including land) is $800 mil. 8 decades seemed fair. But if they were building a cheaper stadium a 3 decade duration has merit. $800 mil for 30 years seems like a tough pill to swallow.

i understand. But there's no way any team stays in their stadium for 80 years. It's virtually impossible. And while I agree with the idea, it needs changing. Personally, I don't think 800million gets it done. For the stadium portion, maybe. But of were talking kaput building downtown on the waterfront, were talking about a $2billion deal. It's not just the stadium itself. There's gonna have to be hotels, parking, traffic patterns, new highway infrastructure Implimented, subway system would need to be completely overhauled.

 

For all this, is the reason why Buffalo should build downtown to begin with IMO. It's a chance to put some real money into the city for improvement. Get it approved because of the team. Helps the city overhaul itself as well.

[CodeMonkey]

There is no way a statewide referendum passes for a stadium in Buffalo. Not even the slightest chance.

Even a local one within WNY where WNY people fund a stadium would fail in my opinion.

The number of real Bills fans that would be willing to fund a stadium is dwarfed by the others, again in my opinion.

Edited April 17, 2014 by CodeMonkey

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

What kind of checks would you write to keep me out?

ones written on Buffalo Chips of course Edited April 17, 2014 by BillsFan-4-Ever

[RyanC883]

Not being from NY, is there a mechanism for voting on single funding options, like in California and other states? I ask this because it would seem like this could be the surest way of guaranteeing the Bills would stay in Buffalo. Put a referendum on the ballot next election to fund the cost of a new stadium. It could be as simple as a pledge that Buffalo (Erie County) tax payers would fund the site location and construction of a new downtown stadium conditioned upon the new owner agreeing not to move the Bills for 80 years. I'm not saying this is a fair or great option; hardworking tax payers donating hundreds of millions of dollars to a billionaire is disgusting...but it might be necessary. Would the people of Buffalo go for this? An owner of the Bills faces the headwinds of a populous that can't afford high priced tickets, a local economy that is generally without big businesses to fill obscenely priced luxury boxes, and smaller local advertising options than they'd have in cities like LA, but the city could provide the land and build a stadium. It comes at a huge price, and I realize Buffalo isn't swimming in cash...but how much are people willing to give up to keep the Bills? For the locals in Buffalo, if it took a 1% city tax added to your paychecks or a 1% increase in the local sales tax would you vote for it?

 

I like the idea. Esp. the part about the city (be it Niagara Falls or Downtown) donating the land. There is a ton of vacant land. Businesses are leaving due to NYS taxes, etc. So, donating land should not be difficult in a depressed economy. In fact, the City may be able to knock down some old factories, etc. and get federal money as a brownfield site .

[Mr. WEO]

i understand. But there's no way any team stays in their stadium for 80 years. It's virtually impossible. And while I agree with the idea, it needs changing. Personally, I don't think 800million gets it done. For the stadium portion, maybe. But of were talking kaput building downtown on the waterfront, were talking about a $2billion deal. It's not just the stadium itself. There's gonna have to be hotels, parking, traffic patterns, new highway infrastructure Implimented, subway system would need to be completely overhauled.

 

For all this, is the reason why Buffalo should build downtown to begin with IMO. It's a chance to put some real money into the city for improvement. Get it approved because of the team. Helps the city overhaul itself as well.

 

Yeah, 80 years doesn't make sense. Look at the Rams. They were lured back to St Louis with a new stadium only 19 years ago (with renovations/upgrades in 2009,2010, 2011) and they still want out. That tax payer bought stadium set back the locals $280 million ($433 today's $$s). So the public coffers offered another $48 million for more renovations. The Rams countered with a $700 million plan demand! Now they may leave for LA.

 

This is why you don't put that much public money for stadiums---that and the fact that there is little evidence it stimulates poor local economy.

[jahnyc]

I think an online peitiion to keep the Bills in Buffalo would be easier and potentially more effective from a PR perspective, particularly since the petition would be open to all NFL fans and others interested in keeping the Bills in Buffalo.

[mrags]

 

 

Yeah, 80 years doesn't make sense. Look at the Rams. They were lured back to St Louis with a new stadium only 19 years ago (with renovations/upgrades in 2009,2010, 2011) and they still want out. That tax payer bought stadium set back the locals $280 million ($433 today's $$s). So the public coffers offered another $48 million for more renovations. The Rams countered with a $700 million plan demand! Now they may leave for LA.

 

This is why you don't put that much public money for stadiums---that and the fact that there is little evidence it stimulates poor local economy.

the biggest thing it does for the local economy is that it's automatically a national advertisement every Sunday during football season. Hell, almost every day throughout the year. The NFL is the biggest thing ever in entertainment minus movies and music. The coverage your city gets just from being part of the NFL makes it worth it IMO. Now, the better you are, the better the coverage, but even if your in last place, the coverage still makes it worth it. Edited April 17, 2014 by mrags

[billykaykay]

There is no way a statewide referendum passes for a stadium in Buffalo. Not even the slightest chance.

Even a local one within WNY where WNY people fund a stadium would fail in my opinion.

The number of real Bills fans that would be willing to fund a stadium is dwarfed by the others, again in my opinion.

For the past 50 years, I have paid over $100k in school property taxes - and have never used a public school. I have paid for libraries & public parks and have used them only rarely. Never have I griped, complained or whined about my taxes for these items.

If my taxes must go up a little to pay for a stadium, I will cheer. At last, my taxes will go to something that I will use & enjoy.

Yes, there will be some jobs created by building a new stadium. More importantly, the whole Buffalo psych would take a hit if we don't. We give businesses money all the time in the form of tax loopholes & tax break /forgiveness schemes. It is time & the Governor seems to be on board.

When we built the present stadium 40+ years ago, does anyone remember their taxes - either state or local - going up noticeably ?

Just do it, pay for it, & get it done, so my kids can enjoy it for the next 40 years just like I did for the past 40+ years. Thanks for listening.

[mrags]

 

For the past 50 years, I have paid over $100k in school property taxes - and have never used a public school. I have paid for libraries & public parks and have used them only rarely. Never have I griped, complained or whined about my taxes for these items.

If my taxes must go up a little to pay for a stadium, I will cheer. At last, my taxes will go to something that I will use & enjoy.

Yes, there will be some jobs created by building a new stadium. More importantly, the whole Buffalo psych would take a hit if we don't. We give businesses money all the time in the form of tax loopholes & tax break /forgiveness schemes. It is time & the Governor seems to be on board.

When we built the present stadium 40+ years ago, does anyone remember their taxes - either state or local - going up noticeably ?

Just do it, pay for it, & get it done, so my kids can enjoy it for the next 40 years just like I did for the past 40+ years. Thanks for listening.

well said

[CodeMonkey]

For the past 50 years, I have paid over $100k in school property taxes - and have never used a public school. I have paid for libraries & public parks and have used them only rarely. Never have I griped, complained or whined about my taxes for these items.

If my taxes must go up a little to pay for a stadium, I will cheer. At last, my taxes will go to something that I will use & enjoy.

Yes, there will be some jobs created by building a new stadium. More importantly, the whole Buffalo psych would take a hit if we don't. We give businesses money all the time in the form of tax loopholes & tax break /forgiveness schemes. It is time & the Governor seems to be on board.

When we built the present stadium 40+ years ago, does anyone remember their taxes - either state or local - going up noticeably ?

Just do it, pay for it, & get it done, so my kids can enjoy it for the next 40 years just like I did for the past 40+ years. Thanks for listening.

Hard to argue with your sentiment and passion. However in my opinion there are far fewer that feel as you do compared to the rest.

[Mango]

I like the idea. Esp. the part about the city (be it Niagara Falls or Downtown) donating the land. There is a ton of vacant land. Businesses are leaving due to NYS taxes, etc. So, donating land should not be difficult in a depressed economy. In fact, the City may be able to knock down some old factories, etc. and get federal money as a brownfield site .

 

The largest site I can think of, the brownfield space you are talking about from Bethlehem Steel, will become a superfund site. It is almost entirely unusable, and a health risk disaster. It is almost a certainty that that site will go unused for most of my lifetime. The cost of cleaning that up for public use as a whole is in the 100's of millions of dollars. While small portions are being sold off, it is in very small portions. No way that site will work without very serious investment, nearly the cost of the stadium itself. Check out the mess that is Hickory Woods, just a few blocks away in South Buffalo. No way the city helps fund a stadium near there, they were/are in a ton of hot water from their last publicly funded build. We where left a disaster in that area. Most don't realize.