Robert Paulson Posted April 16, 2014 Posted April 16, 2014 If any of the top 3 OT's are there at 9 , he's the one. Trading up is too expensive, we will also need a OG mid rd. THIS
dollars 2 donuts Posted April 16, 2014 Posted April 16, 2014 If the Bills trade up to 3 to draft Jake Mathews I will never watch another Bills game as long as I live. Fro crying out loud, if we were to trade up to that spot I would try and get Mack or Watkins and take my chances in the third round on an OT, or keep my fingers crossed that Hairston comes back without the questions marks.
thewildrabbit Posted April 17, 2014 Posted April 17, 2014 I love me some OT's, aka big uglies...and even I wouldn't trade up from #9 to #3 to draft an OT. http://walterfootball.com/draftchart.php Do the math guys, as the ONLY player I'd give up extra picks for in this draft loaded with talent is for a QB. The Bills believe they have their man in EJ. I wouldn't do it for Watkins, or even Mack as there is simply far to many team needs, and so much talent in this draft. Besides, Taylor Lewan might still be there, and if not the bills could trade back a few spots and pick up a fav player of mine in Zack Martin.
simpleman Posted April 17, 2014 Posted April 17, 2014 (edited) So you don’t choose OTs in round 1 of the draft? Just the facts, not just opinions. OL selections in the last 5 drafts, top 20 picks. 2013 Draft OL picks 1,2,4,7,10,11,19,20 2012 Draft OL picks 4 2011 Draft OL picks 9, 17 2010 4,6,11,17,18 2009 2,6,8, 19% of top 20 picks 24% of top 10 picks 7 of 10 top rated OT in NFL recent history are first round picks. Ryan Clady round 1,12 3x pro bowl Joe Thomas 1,3 7x pro bowl Jake Long 1,1 4x pro bowl Tyron Smith 1,9 2013 pro bowl Branden Albert 1,15 2013 pro bowl Bryan Bulaga 1, 23 Eugene Monroe 1,8 Edited April 17, 2014 by simpleman
thewildrabbit Posted April 17, 2014 Posted April 17, 2014 So you don’t choose OTs in round 1 of the draft? Just the facts, not just opinions. OL selections in the last 5 drafts, top 20 picks. 2013 Draft OL picks 1,2,4,7,10,11,19,20 2012 Draft OL picks 4 2011 Draft OL picks 9, 17 2010 4,6,11,17,18 2009 2,6,8, 19% of top 20 picks 24% of top 10 picks 7 of 10 top rated OT in NFL recent history are first round picks. Ryan Clady round 1,12 3x pro bowl Joe Thomas 1,3 7x pro bowl Jake Long 1,1 4x pro bowl Tyron Smith 1,9 2013 pro bowl Branden Albert 1,15 2013 pro bowl Bryan Bulaga 1, 23 Eugene Monroe 1,8 I think you could define the last 14 years of losing to the ignorance of the various coaching staffs on what a top O line could do to help win games. Even some fans here vehemently defend the thinking that O line scubs can win games, even championships. So many current fans think teams can develop a SB winning QB behind a bad line, and if he doesn't succeed ...well then, the QB is the one to fault. I can't really blame the fans too much because there is a consensus even on NFL coaching staffs that the O line isn't that important...the Buffalo Bills for example. I look at the Houston Texans expansion and poor rookie QB David Carr was 76 times sacked in his first year. To put that in perspective the Bills only allowed 48 sacks last year, and they were the fifth worst in allowing sacks. I firmly believe in building a top line before drafting the franchise QB. Apparently this FO doesn't think that way considering how they replaced their best OG after he left for Tennessee, and what they went into last years season with on that line.
dollars 2 donuts Posted April 17, 2014 Posted April 17, 2014 I love me some OT's, aka big uglies...and even I wouldn't trade up from #9 to #3 to draft an OT. http://walterfootbal...ftchart.php Do the math guys, as the ONLY player I'd give up extra picks for in this draft loaded with talent is for a QB. The Bills believe they have their man in EJ. I wouldn't do it for Watkins, or even Mack as there is simply far to many team needs, and so much talent in this draft. Besides, Taylor Lewan might still be there, and if not the bills could trade back a few spots and pick up a fav player of mine in Zack Martin. BTW, FT, i am in agreement with you. Although I referenced Watkins and Mack I really have no desire to trade up in this draft. I am confident this group can get 3 starters for 2014 with their first three draft picks.
thebandit27 Posted April 17, 2014 Posted April 17, 2014 I think you could define the last 14 years of losing to the ignorance of the various coaching staffs on what a top O line could do to help win games. Even some fans here vehemently defend the thinking that O line scubs can win games, even championships. So many current fans think teams can develop a SB winning QB behind a bad line, and if he doesn't succeed ...well then, the QB is the one to fault. I can't really blame the fans too much because there is a consensus even on NFL coaching staffs that the O line isn't that important...the Buffalo Bills for example. I look at the Houston Texans expansion and poor rookie QB David Carr was 76 times sacked in his first year. To put that in perspective the Bills only allowed 48 sacks last year, and they were the fifth worst in allowing sacks. I firmly believe in building a top line before drafting the franchise QB. Apparently this FO doesn't think that way considering how they replaced their best OG after he left for Tennessee, and what they went into last years season with on that line. By contrast, how did Tennessee, who boasted a Pro Bowl LT, signed the OG to whom you're referring, and spent a top 10 pick on a guard, fair last year? So you don’t choose OTs in round 1 of the draft? Just the facts, not just opinions. OL selections in the last 5 drafts, top 20 picks. 2013 Draft OL picks 1,2,4,7,10,11,19,20 2012 Draft OL picks 4 2011 Draft OL picks 9, 17 2010 4,6,11,17,18 2009 2,6,8, 19% of top 20 picks 24% of top 10 picks 7 of 10 top rated OT in NFL recent history are first round picks. Ryan Clady round 1,12 3x pro bowl Joe Thomas 1,3 7x pro bowl Jake Long 1,1 4x pro bowl Tyron Smith 1,9 2013 pro bowl Branden Albert 1,15 2013 pro bowl Bryan Bulaga 1, 23 Eugene Monroe 1,8 Nobody is saying you don't pick an OT in round 1; people are saying that you don't need to reach for a RT in round 1. All of the players you listed as pro bowlers are left tackles, and I'm not sure what you mean by "top rated OT in NFL recent history", would you mind clarifying? RTs all around the league are found beyond round 1...it's also worth noting that the 3 RTs drafted in the top 4 last year had fairly inauspicious rookie seasons, with Fisher nearly being benched, Joeckel playing a total of 5 games, and Johnson starting on a line that allowed 46 sacks. Also, the RTs drafted last year were mostly intended to move to LT, with the exception of Johnson, who Chip Kelly placed a premium on because he's athletic enough to run his offensive blitzkrieg system. Lastly, I think it's worth noting that, of the 22 players labeled as "starters", OLmen make up 5 of them, or 22.7%. That probably explains why right around 20% of first round picks are OLmen.
PO'14 Posted April 17, 2014 Posted April 17, 2014 DRAFT MATTHEWS and in the 2nd DRAFT his COUSIN the TE NIKLAS! Family connections would be awesome for the team.Especially a family with HUGE football history!
Canadian Bills Fan Posted April 17, 2014 Posted April 17, 2014 DRAFT MATTHEWS and in the 2nd DRAFT his COUSIN the TE NIKLAS! Family connections would be awesome for the team.Especially a family with HUGE football history! This is the only way I would be happy with an OL in round 1 CBF
Bob Malooga Posted April 17, 2014 Posted April 17, 2014 (edited) If the Bills trade up to 3 to draft Jake Mathews I will never watch another Bills game as long as I live. I am with you. WTF are people thinking? We have a left tackle already. Do they think a kid that can be a pro bowl LEFT tackle and make LEFT Tackle money is going to say 'golly gee...Ill take it in the butt for 5 years then get franchised to play right tackle at right tackle pay'? Sure they do because they are stuck in 'Madden' land. This kid will fail to report and then sit out a year and be a top 3 pick next year to a team not stupid enough to try and draft a LEFT tackle to play RIGHT tackle. Yup, yup...and I feel the same about Manziel...a RT in the top-10 or Manziel, and I am about at my breaking point with this team. At this point, I would be hoping for a new owner who will completely clean house and get credible candidates in football positions. They have until the end of May to prove me wrong and keep their jobs (in my opinion), when the team is sold. (Not saying the team will be sold by the end of May, but I'm saying they better do something exciting with this draft...they are fighting for their jobs.) Edited April 17, 2014 by Bob Malooga
tennesseeboy Posted April 17, 2014 Posted April 17, 2014 no need to trade up for one of the three blue chip tackles. One of them will be there at 9. I don't understand why the hair pulling exists over RT vs. LT. The difference between the tackles is less and less and further the rt to lt transition is long respected. Not to mention that offensive linemen do get hurt. I see us getting Lewan at 9 but if Matthews falls to nine that would be fine. There are three OT's who would be a catch at 9 and fill a hole that we have right now. Let's not out-think ourselves as to what would happen three years down the pike.
simpleman Posted April 17, 2014 Posted April 17, 2014 (edited) They have until the end of May to prove me wrong and keep their jobs (in my opinion), when the team is sold. (Not saying the team will be sold by the end of May, but I'm saying they better do something exciting with this draft...they are fighting for their jobs.) Good point. I never thought about this. There is good news! If the team is sold to new owners who decide to keep the Bills in the area, the new owners will have no history with or loyalty to anyone in the coaching staff or current management. They will be purging the chaff in the organization, and bringing in their own people. Everyone in management is in jeopardy. A management team with a 20 year history of incompetence and futility will finally be disbanded, and a new day will dawn! Edited April 17, 2014 by simpleman
NoSaint Posted April 17, 2014 Posted April 17, 2014 Good point. I never thought about this. There is good news! If the team is sold to new owners who decide to keep the Bills in the area, the new owners will have no history with or loyalty to anyone in the coaching staff or current management. They will be purging the chaff in the organization, and bringing in their own people. Everyone in management is in jeopardy. A management team with a 20 year history of incompetence and futility will finally be disbanded, and a new day will dawn! how fitting would it be if we ended up with littman and overdorf being the last men standing again (feel free to tar and feather me for even mentioning that - i deserve it)
simpleman Posted April 17, 2014 Posted April 17, 2014 (edited) From http://walterfootbal...sivetackles.php “Since 1993, there have only been five busts at the offensive tackle position in the top 16 picks of the NFL Draft. …. Pretty insane, huh? Offensive tackles chosen in the top 16 hit 69.2 percent of the time and bust on just a 19.2-percent clip. …. There will always be busts at every position in the NFL Draft. There is no such thing as a guarantee when you're giving 21- and 22-year-olds millions of dollars. But offensive tackles are as close to a guarantee as you're going to get.” how fitting would it be if we ended up with littman and overdorf being the last men standing again (feel free to tar and feather me for even mentioning that - i deserve it) I wouldn't tar and feather you, just hope you are wrong. I am trying to be optimistic here! Please don't ruin the party. Edited April 17, 2014 by simpleman
FireChan Posted April 17, 2014 Posted April 17, 2014 From http://walterfootball.com/nfldraftoffensivetackles.php “Since 1993, there have only been five busts at the offensive tackle position in the top 16 picks of the NFL Draft. …. Pretty insane, huh? Offensive tackles chosen in the top 16 hit 69.2 percent of the time and bust on just a 19.2-percent clip. …. There will always be busts at every position in the NFL Draft. There is no such thing as a guarantee when you're giving 21- and 22-year-olds millions of dollars. But offensive tackles are as close to a guarantee as you're going to get.” What qualifies as a bust? If we get a "solid starter" at #9 in the most talented draft in recent history, I'll be pissed. Watkins vs. OT, who do you take? The OT might be solid but Watkins might be a superstar.
simpleman Posted April 17, 2014 Posted April 17, 2014 (edited) Nobody is saying you don't pick an OT in round 1; people are saying that you don't need to reach for a RT in round 1. All of the players you listed as pro bowlers are left tackles, and I'm not sure what you mean by "top rated OT in NFL recent history", would you mind clarifying? I googled "top rated NFL Offensive tackles", removed the historical players from the various lists and took the consensus top 10. Build your own list, I don't necessarily personally agree with some, like Monroe and Bulaga, but just was trying to get a consensus listing. Edited April 17, 2014 by simpleman
BmarvB Posted April 17, 2014 Posted April 17, 2014 No need to trade up. Somebody worthy is going to be available at #9, and there's going to be a good 'need' player available in the later rounds too. BPA at #1, fill the needs in rounds 2 & 3. OAN, this might be a stretch, but don't be surprised if the Patriots trade out of round 1 to get a couple more picks later. It's a deep enough draft for them to consider it.
thewildrabbit Posted April 17, 2014 Posted April 17, 2014 Yup, yup...and I feel the same about Manziel...a RT in the top-10 or Manziel, and I am about at my breaking point with this team. At this point, I would be hoping for a new owner who will completely clean house and get credible candidates in football positions. They have until the end of May to prove me wrong and keep their jobs (in my opinion), when the team is sold. (Not saying the team will be sold by the end of May, but I'm saying they better do something exciting with this draft...they are fighting for their jobs.) What is the biggest difference between the Buffalo Bills and the Seattle Seahawks? In my view its the coaching staff, and having people at the top who actually know who to hire. This has been the problem with the team for almost 20 years, as the Bills don't have a Bill Polian, John Buter GM, nor an Ozzie Newsome type president. The owner was the president, and hired a marketing man to run the football operations. This team is still out of touch in what it takes to build a winning team. Nobody in this FO would ever contemplate giving up the money the Jags would have paid center Alex Mack, or the money Cleveland will pay him to stay with the Browns. This Org just doesn't value the O line players as highly as they do the D linemen. What amazes me to this day is how many fans on this site side with this dysfunctional front office over this. Anyway, I'm also hoping the new owner /s want to clean sweep this entire front office and coaching staff, and rid itself of this losing culture.
K-9 Posted April 17, 2014 Posted April 17, 2014 What qualifies as a bust? If we get a "solid starter" at #9 in the most talented draft in recent history, I'll be pissed. Watkins vs. OT, who do you take? The OT might be solid but Watkins might be a superstar. Watkins is rated higher than the OTs in the draft, so don't worry. That's directly from three scouting reports as of last Friday. But speaking of OTs, you were gonna amass stats to support your declaration that no other position has as high a bust rate as OTs taken high in the draft. Are you still working on that or did you abandon the exercise? GO BILLS!!!
simpleman Posted April 17, 2014 Posted April 17, 2014 But speaking of OTs, you were gonna amass stats to support your declaration that no other position has as high a bust rate as OTs taken high in the draft. Are you still working on that or did you abandon the exercise? GO BILLS!!! Actually the link I just posted in this thread from Walter Football amasses stats to show exactly the opposite. Check out the link.
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