Game of Thrones Part Deax: The Readers Thread

[Bad Things]

 

She definitely wanted Lancel to suffer. He ratted her out to the Sparrow.

Nice.

I forgot about that. She sure did a good job purging all of her enemies.

[eball]

If you don't think Dany wants to rule the seven kingdoms than we are watching completely different shows.

 

I think you're missing my point. Her reason for wanting to rule isn't the "glory" of the title, it's so she can make lasting changes...that's a different motivation than we generally see, and I believe Jon Snow -- err, Targaryen -- feels the same way.

[SDS]

 

I think you're missing my point. Her reason for wanting to rule isn't the "glory" of the title, it's so she can make lasting changes...that's a different motivation than we generally see, and I believe Jon Snow -- err, Targaryen -- feels the same way.

Disagree completely. That she wants to leave the world a better place is just by chance. Make no mistake, she wants to be queen because she wants what she thinks is rightfully hers and she wants the power as much or more as anyone else who desired to be on that throne.

[Brandon]

Disagree completely. That she wants to leave the world a better place is just by chance. Make no mistake, she wants to be queen because she wants what she thinks is rightfully hers and she wants the power as much or more as anyone else who desired to be on that throne.

 

For my part, I think you're absolutely right about that. Her primary motivation has always been her sense of entitlement that she deserves the Iron Throne as the daughter of Aerys Targaryen.

[/dev/null]

I think Dany is motivated both by a sense of Entitlement as the only (known) Targarian as well as a desire to right the wrongs of the world.

 

Plus she is starting to believe her own legend.

 

A dangerous mix for a leader. A bloody mix for an absolute ruler.

[eball]

Disagree completely. That she wants to leave the world a better place is just by chance. Make no mistake, she wants to be queen because she wants what she thinks is rightfully hers and she wants the power as much or more as anyone else who desired to be on that throne.

 

 

 

For my part, I think you're absolutely right about that. Her primary motivation has always been her sense of entitlement that she deserves the Iron Throne as the daughter of Aerys Targaryen.

 

Do you guys forget the first season? There was no sense of entitlement...she was being led around by her brother who was the "rightful" heir. She has "learned" to desire the throne.

 

Anyway, we can agree to disagree with respect to her motivations. I think she actually wants to redeem the Targaryen name after her father sullied it.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Pretty lame episode after the glorious battle of the bastards. Just MO, but kind of a letdown.

[Brandon]

 

 

 

Do you guys forget the first season? There was no sense of entitlement...she was being led around by her brother who was the "rightful" heir. She has "learned" to desire the throne.

 

Anyway, we can agree to disagree with respect to her motivations. I think she actually wants to redeem the Targaryen name after her father sullied it.

 

She'd never even considered it at all at the beginning of the story, though, because she'd expected that Viserys would be the one to reclaim the throne. But when he was killed, things changed. In fact, the balance of power in their relationship had shifted even before that, but that's probably another topic. Regardless, from that point forward, it was all about retaking the Iron Throne on the basis of her being the only living heir to the last Targaryen king. She does try to convince herself at times that she's doing it to leave the world a better place for the commoners, which she has been better at in the show than the books, but in the end, I think its very much a secondary motivation for her. That's not really who she is or what she's about, and the fact that Barristan Selmy and now Tyrion have had to reign her in from taking overly harsh actions is strong evidence of it.

[FireChan]

 

 

 

Do you guys forget the first season? There was no sense of entitlement...she was being led around by her brother who was the "rightful" heir. She has "learned" to desire the throne.

 

Anyway, we can agree to disagree with respect to her motivations. I think she actually wants to redeem the Targaryen name after her father sullied it.

Did you forget the second season?

 

She didn't even know her father was crazy until like season 5. Prior to that, it was all "I am the Mother of Dragons and I will take what is mine; with Fire and Blood, I will take it."

 

She convinced an army of rapists, murderers and slavers to raid Westeros. Is that making the world a better place? Or is that the ends justifying the means to get her throne back?

Edited June 29, 2016 by FireChan

[Matt in KC]

I believe Dany has loyalty to her family, and that is her main motivation. She wants to rule because her family did, and lost so much due to the usurpers. She is torn, because her nature is to protect her family. But she feels that kinship with her people, especially her close advisors (Grey Worm, Messande etc.), and has a hard time losing anyone to the tasks she needs to ask of them to retain and grow her rule.

 

I think Dany would be greatly relieved to learn she isn't the last Targaryen, especially since she is barren. This last point is a reason John and Dany will not get together in the end.

 

So who is a good match for John to carry on the Targaryen legacy, regardless of his last name?

 

My guess is the show ends with a baby being born, and a bit of green springing forth from the snow. . . .

[Doc]

I believe Dany has loyalty to her family, and that is her main motivation. She wants to rule because her family did, and lost so much due to the usurpers. She is torn, because her nature is to protect her family. But she feels that kinship with her people, especially her close advisors (Grey Worm, Messande etc.), and has a hard time losing anyone to the tasks she needs to ask of them to retain and grow her rule.

 

I think Dany would be greatly relieved to learn she isn't the last Targaryen, especially since she is barren. This last point is a reason John and Dany will not get together in the end.

 

So who is a good match for John to carry on the Targaryen legacy, regardless of his last name?

 

My guess is the show ends with a baby being born, and a bit of green springing forth from the snow. . . .

Sansa.

[Matt in KC]

Sansa.

I just don't see it. They grew up as (half) siblings and John is now recognized as having Stark blood, albeit as a bastard. Sure the Targaryens married within their family, but that seems to be contemptible across Westeros, and wouldn't strengthen their claim/hold on the throne. Thinking along those lines, if he did go that direction, Arya is a better fit, but as problematic and unattractive a prospect.

 

Marrying a surviving Tyrell, or another woman from a strong house makes the most sense. I just can't think of any characters we have seen (beyond say Brienne) that might be options. Maybe the answer is Dany after all....

 

Sansa and Podrick seem like a great match. She deserves a good husband!

[FireChan]

I just don't see it. They grew up as (half) siblings and John is now recognized as having Stark blood, albeit as a bastard. Sure the Targaryens married within their family, but that seems to be contemptible across Westeros, and wouldn't strengthen their claim/hold on the throne. Thinking along those lines, if he did go that direction, Arya is a better fit, but as problematic and unattractive a prospect.

 

Marrying a surviving Tyrell, or another woman from a strong house makes the most sense. I just can't think of any characters we have seen (beyond say Brienne) that might be options. Maybe the answer is Dany after all....

 

Sansa and Podrick seem like a great match. She deserves a good husband!

This was in the original outline, IIRC.

[Matt in KC]

Have you guys seen this great interactive GOT map?

 

http://quartermaester.info/

 

You can choose characters and how far through the show or books you are, and it will show you their travels on the map. It looks like they added Season 6 in the last few days.

[Deranged Rhino]

I just don't see it. They grew up as (half) siblings and John is now recognized as having Stark blood, albeit as a bastard. Sure the Targaryens married within their family, but that seems to be contemptible across Westeros, and wouldn't strengthen their claim/hold on the throne. Thinking along those lines, if he did go that direction, Arya is a better fit, but as problematic and unattractive a prospect.

 

Marrying a surviving Tyrell, or another woman from a strong house makes the most sense. I just can't think of any characters we have seen (beyond say Brienne) that might be options. Maybe the answer is Dany after all....

 

Sansa and Podrick seem like a great match. She deserves a good husband!

 

There are more than a few ladies in Dorne, Danny's newest ally...

[DC Tom]

 

There are more than a few ladies in Dorne, Danny's newest ally...

 

Let's not forget that Tyrion is Hand of the Queen, and a marriage to the Hand can also cement alliances to some degree.

 

And he and Sansa are already nominally married. Wouldn't that be a kicker? Cersei's going to be deposed, Jamie's in the Kingsguard and can't succeed...Dani takes the throne, marries Jon, and Tyrion's in charge at Casterly Rock unifying the Lannisters with a newly resurgent House Stark. Or Dani takes the throne, Jon as a half-brother (cousin? Nephew?) is next in succession, marries a Dornish Hen to provide the line of succession, Tyrion and Sansa yada yada yada...and the Starks, Lannisters, Targeryans, and Martells are all allied by marriage. Don't know what you do with the Arryns, Freys, or Tullys, though. (Dothraki go back to Essos - as nomadic pastoralists, they wouldn't leave Vaes Dothraki, and there's not enough grazing in Westeros. The Iron Born just want to go play on their rocks.)

 

And then Varys marries Olenna Tyrell, and all is neatly wrapped up.

[Deranged Rhino]

 

Let's not forget that Tyrion is Hand of the Queen, and a marriage to the Hand can also cement alliances to some degree.

 

And he and Sansa are already nominally married. Wouldn't that be a kicker? Cersei's going to be deposed, Jamie's in the Kingsguard and can't succeed...Dani takes the throne, marries Jon, and Tyrion's in charge at Casterly Rock unifying the Lannisters with a newly resurgent House Stark. Or Dani takes the throne, Jon as a half-brother (cousin? Nephew?) is next in succession, marries a Dornish Hen to provide the line of succession, Tyrion and Sansa yada yada yada...and the Starks, Lannisters, Targeryans, and Martells are all allied by marriage. Don't know what you do with the Arryns, Freys, or Tullys, though. (Dothraki go back to Essos - as nomadic pastoralists, they wouldn't leave Vaes Dothraki, and there's not enough grazing in Westeros. The Iron Born just want to go play on their rocks.)

 

And then Varys marries Olenna Tyrell, and all is neatly wrapped up.

[/dev/null]

 

Let's not forget that Tyrion is Hand of the Queen, and a marriage to the Hand can also cement alliances to some degree.

 

And he and Sansa are already nominally married. Wouldn't that be a kicker? Cersei's going to be deposed, Jamie's in the Kingsguard and can't succeed...Dani takes the throne, marries Jon, and Tyrion's in charge at Casterly Rock unifying the Lannisters with a newly resurgent House Stark.

 

And then Varys marries Olenna Tyrell, and all is neatly wrapped up.

Problem with your Tyrion/Sansa theory is that Sansa can call claim the marriage is not valid because there was no consumation

 

And any marriage between Varys and anyone would have the same legal challenge.

[MDH]

 

I think you're missing my point. Her reason for wanting to rule isn't the "glory" of the title, it's so she can make lasting changes...that's a different motivation than we generally see, and I believe Jon Snow -- err, Targaryen -- feels the same way.

 

I don't think that's her motivation for wanting to rule. She feels it's "owed" her, much like her brother did simply because of her blood. She might have a nobler perspective on how to rule, but the reasons for her years long quest to get to the throne are anything but noble.

 

I also found it interesting that when Yara Greyjoy came before her and said her uncle "stole" her rule Danny agreed and called him an "usurper" yet he was anything but. They followed the laws/customs of their land and elected him the ruler via the Kingsmoot. So Dany thinks it's okay for Yara to overthrow the rightful ruler to the Iron Islands because he's not a good guy but when Robert overthrew a king who wanted to kill pretty much everybody that wasn't "just" and now she must get the throne back via any means necessary.

 

I'm hoping Dany's story line has her ignoring Tyrion's advice and she ends up doing more and more evil things in her quest for power the closer she comes to accomplishing her goal. That would be an interesting twist from the "free the slaves" ruler we've seen the past few seasons. And they've alluded to a darker side of Dany on a few occasions. Stringing up the masters alone the path to Mareen and then a few episodes ago her threatening to burn all the cities down that the masters resided in, despite that it would kill lots of innocents too.

 

I don't think the series will end with some ultimate winner of the Iron Throne. I'm guessing the humans will unite to stop the walkers but once that fight is done they continue bickering over who the next King/Queen will be, thus ultimately stating that the "Game of Thrones" is a game with no end.

[eball]

 

I don't think that's her motivation for wanting to rule. She feels it's "owed" her, much like her brother did simply because of her blood. She might have a nobler perspective on how to rule, but the reasons for her years long quest to get to the throne are anything but noble.

 

I also found it interesting that when Yara Greyjoy came before her and said her uncle "stole" her rule Danny agreed and called him an "usurper" yet he was anything but. They followed the laws/customs of their land and elected him the ruler via the Kingsmoot. So Dany thinks it's okay for Yara to overthrow the rightful ruler to the Iron Islands because he's not a good guy but when Robert overthrew a king who wanted to kill pretty much everybody that wasn't "just" and now she must get the throne back via any means necessary.

 

I'm hoping Dany's story line has her ignoring Tyrion's advice and she ends up doing more and more evil things in her quest for power the closer she comes to accomplishing her goal. That would be an interesting twist from the "free the slaves" ruler we've seen the past few seasons. And they've alluded to a darker side of Dany on a few occasions. Stringing up the masters alone the path to Mareen and then a few episodes ago her threatening to burn all the cities down that the masters resided in, despite that it would kill lots of innocents too.

 

I don't think the series will end with some ultimate winner of the Iron Throne. I'm guessing the humans will unite to stop the walkers but once that fight is done they continue bickering over who the next King/Queen will be, thus ultimately stating that the "Game of Thrones" is a game with no end.

 

I see your point. I think Dany's struggles are in learning how to rule; she wants instant accountability, but doesn't have the experience necessary to fully consider the consequences -- that's where Jorah's and Tyrion's counsel have been invaluable. As she gains that experience we might see a "more evil" side of her emerge.

 

I agree, it wouldn't be in keeping with the show's overall tenor to finish with a "happy" ending...