K-9 Posted June 13, 2016 Posted June 13, 2016 True, the time line is fuzzy with the show. I just assume she will hook up with Sam and/or Danny before making it west but it's just a guess. But she already knows about the wild fire, she was the one who ordered them to make more of the stuff before Blackwater, right? Or am I mixing that up? I could have sworn Tyrion was the second to learn of its existence, after his sister had already begun mass production. Tyrion planned and ordered the wildfire production for the Blackwater defense and wanted it kept secret from Cersei and everyone else.
Deranged Rhino Posted June 13, 2016 Posted June 13, 2016 It's her idea in he book to mass produce it for the Battle of Blackwater. Tyrion just thought of how to use it. I don't think they show it as her idea in the show. I remember Bromn and Tyrion visit the pyromancers. But I would imagine Aerys had more hidden within the city when he wants to "burn it all". It also explains why Bran saw that part in his vision as And Cersei knows how to use it. She can't have the pyromancers make it at this point like she did before, so maybe she's searching for it as a weapon? It makes sense, no argument. I just remember her being pretty well versed in the fact that there were large stashes of the stuff placed throughout King's Landing so I'm not sure why she'd need her master of whispers to confirm that. If I remember the show right (and I may not) when Tyrion and Bromn visit the stores, the pyromancer said something to the effect, "we've been making it night and day for your sister". Her using the wildfire to kill the Sparrow, but instead killing her last son, would fulfill the prophecy nicely. I could get behind that. Tyrion planned and ordered the wildfire production for the Blackwater defense and wanted it kept secret from Cersei and everyone else. Hmm. Maybe I'm way off. I thought Cersei started it, with the plan of burning down King's Landing, and Tyrion decided to use it all to destroy the fleet.
Matt in KC Posted June 13, 2016 Posted June 13, 2016 I think the recent confirmation Cersei received is that they found a long-lost cache of wildfire, likely below the Red Keep / throne room.
Deranged Rhino Posted June 13, 2016 Posted June 13, 2016 I think the recent confirmation Cersei received is that they found a long-lost cache of wildfire, likely below the Red Keep / throne room. So if Cersei burns down King's Landing, killing Tommen in the process, does she take her own life as well? What will that do to the King Slayer? Could losing Cersei bring him into the Stark/Northern fold fully (with Brienne and Stoneheart's help)? Also, if the iron throne is destroyed before Danny and her dragons make landfall, will there be anything left for the conqueror to conquer? All the possibilities are fun.
K-9 Posted June 13, 2016 Posted June 13, 2016 Hmm. Maybe I'm way off. I thought Cersei started it, with the plan of burning down King's Landing, and Tyrion decided to use it all to destroy the fleet. It may be me who's way off.
Deranged Rhino Posted June 13, 2016 Posted June 13, 2016 It may be me who's way off. It's all good either way. I'll have to go back to the books when I get home. Matt is good with pulling up relevant parts of the text so he might beat me to it. I'm just curious because I hadn't considered the wildfire. I was thinking that the rumor they were talking about involved Tyrion and the Dragons -- but it didn't make sense to me why that'd be an issue at that moment. The wildfire makes way more sense.
DC Tom Posted June 13, 2016 Posted June 13, 2016 I didn't mind the story arc either. She changed her face in the brothel scene (though not in the book equivalent). That would be a great skill to have as the larger story wraps up. It is likely to have a big emotional payoff later. ~~~~~~~~~Contrivance~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Littlefinger has somehow managed to convince the world that Sansa is dead, but instead holds her hostage somewhere very secluded. He reveals his "real" self as he hits the old woman on his staff. Finally coming clean, we see he is a total sociopath, who plans to Sansa for years. We see Sansa is again in hell. The old woman stabs him in his little finger and finishes him off, then peels off her face to reveal Arya, who jumps into Sansa's embrace.... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ It was fun just writing that. More likely though the recipient is Cersei or someone else on Arya's list (Ilyn Paine?). Arya is a survivor. We have watched her voyage from being a weak little girl in a cruel world, to having the strength and skill to navigate and go get what she wants. I agree the lack of clear motives for the waif and Jaqen and details of Arya's escape were annoying and seemed like lazy writing for the show. It was certainly lazy writing. Arya sets up an ambush...which involves her traipsing around in public and being very visible to the point where she's not even on her guard and gets stabbed...so that she can be magically healed, in order to lead the Waif to the ambush she set up earlier. Basically, "Arya sets up ambush, has minor stroke, becomes idiot." I almost wonder if the writers are rushing trying to dig themselves out of GRRM's aimless windering and plot cul-de-sacs...and GRRM is silently thankful to them for it. Makes me wonder if they'll simply tie up the Dornish Hens subplot by having Drogon burn the whole city down.
Deranged Rhino Posted June 13, 2016 Posted June 13, 2016 It was certainly lazy writing. Arya sets up an ambush...which involves her traipsing around in public and being very visible to the point where she's not even on her guard and gets stabbed...so that she can be magically healed, in order to lead the Waif to the ambush she set up earlier. Basically, "Arya sets up ambush, has minor stroke, becomes idiot." I almost wonder if the writers are rushing trying to dig themselves out of GRRM's aimless windering and plot cul-de-sacs...and GRRM is silently thankful to them for it. Makes me wonder if they'll simply tie up the Dornish Hens subplot by having Drogon burn the whole city down. There's probably something to that last bit. It's got to be freeing for the writers at this stage to be going off outlines rather than dense, rambling prose. TV writers are used to adapting outlines and making them cooler than the sum of their parts -- but there's a higher degree in difficulty in doing the same with an adaptation. Especially one so popular (now). They'll deliver the big twists and turns and let Martin deliver the details and character nuances when he releases the books.
MDH Posted June 13, 2016 Posted June 13, 2016 Party in Winterfell Sunday night, any unexpected guests? I'm thinking Pod and Brienne make it in time. Who else do you expect to show up? Sansa wrote to Littlefinger asking for his help so there's a good chance he makes it. Now, who knows whose side he'll be on. He might pull a Lannister tactic and show up late and join the winning side. I also think there's a good chance the Umbers turn on the Boltons and swing the battle. There's a reason, beyond just comedic effect, that they wouldn't swear fealty to the Boltons. They were supposed to be the Starks most loyal banner men, it doesn't make sense that they'd just give Rickon to Ramsey after raising the child for the past few years because there are some Wildling invasions bothering them. It all has the feel of a set up.
Matt in KC Posted June 13, 2016 Posted June 13, 2016 So if Cersei burns down King's Landing, killing Tommen in the process, does she take her own life as well? What will that do to the King Slayer? Could losing Cersei bring him into the Stark/Northern fold fully (with Brienne and Stoneheart's help)? Also, if the iron throne is destroyed before Danny and her dragons make landfall, will there be anything left for the conqueror to conquer? All the possibilities are fun. Yes, I think that's a real possibility. I had to re-read to see if I typed that earlier. I did temporarily then erased it before posting because I am all over the place thinking about the possibilities. After Cersei's suicide I could see Jaimie redeeming himself by sacrificing himself for honor/Brienne. I think Denaerys. the Dothraki etc. don't belong in Westeros. I could see her setting up final reign in Valyria or Volantis if she survives. Other characters' final destinations Missandei seems right to rule/govern Mureen long-term. Tyrion = King's Landing or Casterly Rock Sansa = Winterfell I don't think Rickon has a chance given his complete lack of character development) John = dead or off in a cave with Denaerys somewhere? Yara / Asha = Iron Islands Bran = under a small tree somewhere, with room to grow I wonder who ends up reigning over the twins. Maybe a more benevolent Frey since there are so many?
/dev/null Posted June 13, 2016 Posted June 13, 2016 if the iron throne is destroyed before Danny and her dragons make landfall, As long as I have a face, Dany Targarian has somewhere to sit I was thinking that the rumor they were talking about involved Tyrion and the Dragons -- but it didn't make sense to me why that'd be an issue at that moment. My theory on Tyrion & the Dragons is way back in the day when Tywin was Hand to the Mad King, his wife had an affair with Aerys. Making Tyrion a Targarian. Brother to to Dany, uncle to John Snow, and rider of the 3rd dragon So if Cersei burns down King's Landing, killing Tommen in the process, does she take her own life as well? What will that do to the King Slayer? Could losing Cersei bring him into the Stark/Northern fold fully (with Brienne and Stoneheart's help)? I don't think Cersei burns down Kings Landing nor do I think she takes her own life. Jamie's story comes full circle. He killed the Mad King to stop him from burning Kings Landing and will do the same to stop Cersei
DC Tom Posted June 13, 2016 Posted June 13, 2016 There's probably something to that last bit. It's got to be freeing for the writers at this stage to be going off outlines rather than dense, rambling prose. TV writers are used to adapting outlines and making them cooler than the sum of their parts -- but there's a higher degree in difficulty in doing the same with an adaptation. Especially one so popular (now). They'll deliver the big twists and turns and let Martin deliver the details and character nuances when he releases the books. You know, I thought you, at least, would give me some props for calling the Sand Snakes "Dornish Hens." I thought that was a pretty good one...
K-9 Posted June 14, 2016 Posted June 14, 2016 There's probably something to that last bit. It's got to be freeing for the writers at this stage to be going off outlines rather than dense, rambling prose. TV writers are used to adapting outlines and making them cooler than the sum of their parts -- but there's a higher degree in difficulty in doing the same with an adaptation. Especially one so popular (now). They'll deliver the big twists and turns and let Martin deliver the details and character nuances when he releases the books. I appreciate the insight. Would it really matter if Martin's details and nuances were a radical departure from those of the TV script writers at this point? IMO, the TV series really started to diverge from the books in season two, anyway, regardless of all the previous character points Martin created previously. And I really don't mind at all. I can view both story mediums for the works they are separately. GO BILLS!!!
ricojes Posted June 14, 2016 Posted June 14, 2016 Sansa wrote to Littlefinger asking for his help so there's a good chance he makes it. Now, who knows whose side he'll be on. He might pull a Lannister tactic and show up late and join the winning side. I read an interesting theory regarding the letter to Littlefinger and it does make sense. Basically, Sansa insisted that Brienne go to ask her uncle for help in fear that if she sent a raven message, it would be intercepted by Ramsay. Now she sends a raven message most likely asking Littlefinger for help in the battle for Winterfell. It's kind of a win win for Sansa, if the message gets through, she gets Littlefingers help. If it's intercepted, Ramsay may use some of his forces to attack Littlefinger, leaving Winterfell vulnerable. Heck, maybe Ramsay event leads the troops to battle Littlefinger and the Snow/Ramsay battle won't event happen in the next episode. Should be interesting...
SDS Posted June 16, 2016 Posted June 16, 2016 Is it possible Jon Snow dies......again? Hard to believe they would go through all that just to kill him 9 episodes later.
K-9 Posted June 16, 2016 Posted June 16, 2016 Is it possible Jon Snow dies......again? You know, for all the trouble they went through with his first death, one would think he'd have come back a little less conflicted, a little less unsure. But blah! He is actually been downright feckless if you ask me. One would think rising from the dead would change man.
TPS Posted June 16, 2016 Posted June 16, 2016 Hard to believe they would go through all that just to kill him 9 episodes later. Yes, I've got to believe that they are moving toward a happy ending, or at least as happy as it gets in Westeros, but those previews have given me a bad vibe... Assuming the best, they still need to reveal his lineage from Bran's vision of the Tower of Joy, which I would think has to happen in the last episode this season? You know, for all the trouble they went through with his first death, one would think he'd have come back a little less conflicted, a little less unsure. But blah! He is actually been downright feckless if you ask me. One would think rising from the dead would change man. He's been very reluctant to lead. Fortunately Davos is there to slap him upside the head.
Deranged Rhino Posted June 16, 2016 Posted June 16, 2016 You know, for all the trouble they went through with his first death, one would think he'd have come back a little less conflicted, a little less unsure. But blah! He is actually been downright feckless if you ask me. One would think rising from the dead would change man. I hear you. I'd argue death did change Snow. It hollowed him out, took away a lot of his zeal and idealism. Doesn't mean he can't get it back, but I do think it's an interesting change.
John from Riverside Posted June 16, 2016 Posted June 16, 2016 I hear you. I'd argue death did change Snow. It hollowed him out, took away a lot of his zeal and idealism. Doesn't mean he can't get it back, but I do think it's an interesting change. I think it will make him ruthless when the time comes for that He did hang the boy
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