Wayne Cubed Posted June 7, 2016 Posted June 7, 2016 The Faceless Twit stabbed Jaqen H'ghar masquerading as Arya. It's in the musical cues. Why Jaqen was masquerading as Arya, I have no idea. But then why did he throw himself over the bridge into the water? Why not take the mask off and show Waif?
Deranged Rhino Posted June 7, 2016 Posted June 7, 2016 But then why did he throw himself over the bridge into the water? Why not take the mask off and show Waif? Because he wants the Waif to believe she's truly dead.
Wayne Cubed Posted June 7, 2016 Posted June 7, 2016 Because he wants the Waif to believe she's truly dead. That would make sense.
Matt in KC Posted June 7, 2016 Posted June 7, 2016 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SWoW6-4RaYo Thanks. It is interesting in the clip Jaqen talks about the Red God. <Great scene starting at about 2:40!> JH: A man pay his debts. A man owes 3. A: 3 what? JH: The Red God takes what is his, lovely girl, and only death may pay for life. You saved me and the 2 I was with. You stole 3 deaths from the Red God. We have to give them back.
Doc Posted June 7, 2016 Posted June 7, 2016 But then why did he throw himself over the bridge into the water? Why not take the mask off and show Waif? Because he wants the Waif to believe she's truly dead. Yup. But once he's out of eyeshot of the Waif, you'd think he'd smirk at having fooled her and slink away to tend to his wounds. Instead he continues to pretend he's her and ambles into a crowded area. Now I can see the show doing that to throw us off, so I can only assume there's more that's he's trying to keep up the charade for someone else.
Matt in KC Posted June 7, 2016 Posted June 7, 2016 (edited) All of Jaqen's Season 2 scenes: ... JH: 3 lives I will give you. No more, no less ... 7:20 A: You promised you'd help me JH: That wasn't the promise, lovely girl, only death. There must be others. Give a name, any name. A: And you'll kill them. . . anybody? JH: By the seven new gods, and the old gods beyond counting, I swear it. A: Alright. . . <leaning in> Jaqen H'gar ... His final words in Season 2: JH: Jaqen H'gar is dead. <changes face> Farewell Arya Stark. I noticed watching again that she never un-names Jaqen. She just said earlier, when threatening, that she would unname him. This paired with him saying the act is certain, but the timing of the death is not makes me think he may well have finally given his life up for Arya in season 6. That's one reason to tell the waif to make sure she (Arya) doesn't suffer! Edited June 8, 2016 by Matt in KC
SDS Posted June 8, 2016 Posted June 8, 2016 No sir. Yeah, the whole face thing hasn't really been clear to me. There are faces on those walls that can be borrowed, but if they don't come from dead people then where do they come from? I'm not really sure what the rules are here - which is important since the MFG seems to like their rules. Also, it was pointed out in a wiki that Arya is left-handed in the series and those scenes she did everything right-handed.
LB3 Posted June 8, 2016 Posted June 8, 2016 Yeah, the whole face thing hasn't really been clear to me. There are faces on those walls that can be borrowed, but if they don't come from dead people then where do they come from? I'm not really sure what the rules are here - which is important since the MFG seems to like their rules. Also, it was pointed out in a wiki that Arya is left-handed in the series and those scenes she did everything right-handed. Interesting, I didn't know that about Arya. I'm not really sure how the living faces work either, so I just chalk it up to some type of magic.
DC Tom Posted June 8, 2016 Posted June 8, 2016 Yeah, the whole face thing hasn't really been clear to me. There are faces on those walls that can be borrowed, but if they don't come from dead people then where do they come from? I'm not really sure what the rules are here - which is important since the MFG seems to like their rules. Also, it was pointed out in a wiki that Arya is left-handed in the series and those scenes she did everything right-handed. Apparently there's "levels" of skill. At one level, you have to wear someone's face (the Faceless Twit's level). At a higher level, you can actually mimic other people's faces (which Jaquen does - in one earlier episode at Harinhall).
Matt in KC Posted June 8, 2016 Posted June 8, 2016 Quick follow up: Arya DID explicitly un-name Jaqen in A Clash of Kings. They agreed he had repaid the debt. *Darn!* (Not that GOT will definitely follow the books....)
K-9 Posted June 8, 2016 Posted June 8, 2016 Quick follow up: Arya DID explicitly un-name Jaqen in A Clash of Kings. They agreed he had repaid the debt. *Darn!* (Not that GOT will definitely follow the books....) So, does the MFG still owe Arya one life? I can only recall Jaqen killing two people she named (season two seems like centuries ago).
Matt in KC Posted June 8, 2016 Posted June 8, 2016 So, does the MFG still owe Arya one life? I can only recall Jaqen killing two people she named (season two seems like centuries ago). In the show she says she will unname him if he helps her escape, but then does not revisit the point when they meet up for one last time in Season 2, when he says Jaqen H'ghar is dead. In the book she asks Jaqen to help her help the ~100 Northmen that were just imprisoned at Harrenhall to escape. They accomplish this by dowsing the guards with boiling-hot soup and attacking them before they can recover. At the end of that, is this passage: "I take back the name." Arya chewed her lip. "Do I still have a third death?" "A girl is greedy" Jaqen touched one of the dead guards and showed her his bloody fingers. "Here is three and there is four and eight more lie dead below. The debt is paid." "The debt is paid," Arya agreed reluctantly. She felt a little sad. Now she was just a mouse again."
K-9 Posted June 9, 2016 Posted June 9, 2016 In the show she says she will unname him if he helps her escape, but then does not revisit the point when they meet up for one last time in Season 2, when he says Jaqen H'ghar is dead. In the book she asks Jaqen to help her help the ~100 Northmen that were just imprisoned at Harrenhall to escape. They accomplish this by dowsing the guards with boiling-hot soup and attacking them before they can recover. At the end of that, is this passage: Yeah, I remember how it transpired in the book, but couldn't remember if she actually unnamed Jaqen after Harenhall in the TV series. I don't know what to make of his declaration that Jaqen H'ghar is dead as subsequent episodes have shown him to be very much alive at the House of Black in Bravos. The whole Many Faced God facet of the story is weird and hard to make sense of, imo.
Bad Things Posted June 9, 2016 Posted June 9, 2016 I don't know what to make of his declaration that Jaqen H'ghar is dead as subsequent episodes have shown him to be very much alive at the House of Black in Bravos. The whole Many Faced God facet of the story is weird and hard to make sense of, imo. I agree. I thought I had a good handle on what was going on with the whole Arya/faceless man thing, but now am totally confused. All I know, is that the storyline damn-well better pay off, because it's been dragging down this show for a long time now.
ricojes Posted June 9, 2016 Posted June 9, 2016 (edited) I'm hearing that the season finale is going to be the longest episode yet, I know a few years back they had one episode that was an hour an a half. So that would be a bonus. I won't throw spoilers out but if anyone has looked at the title of episode 9 it certainly opens up a ton of possibilities for the elongated season finale which I assume will be episode 10. Episode 9 will be 60 minutes Episode 10 will be 69 minutes - which makes it the longest Thrones episode ever FYI...Titles included in this link: https://www.yahoo.com/tv/game-of-thrones-hbo-confirms-super-sized-season-201756665.html Edited June 9, 2016 by ricojes
Matt in KC Posted June 9, 2016 Posted June 9, 2016 Yeah, I remember how it transpired in the book, but couldn't remember if she actually unnamed Jaqen after Harenhall in the TV series. I don't know what to make of his declaration that Jaqen H'ghar is dead as subsequent episodes have shown him to be very much alive at the House of Black in Bravos. The whole Many Faced God facet of the story is weird and hard to make sense of, imo. I take it to mean Jaqen H'ghar is not the original name of the person Arya met, just a persona, perhaps the name that was originally associated with that face. In both the book and show he says Jaqen is dead and then immediately changes his face. I think he more means "retired." If Arya hadn't gone to the house of black and white, I doubt that faceless man (himself now "nobody") would have been wearing that face. I think that has been done for Arya's sake, the same as the choice for the waif. The only question I have is if the waif is also actually in training like Arya, or just playing the role as a part of the training. Given the waif/Jaqen substitutions we have seen (e.g. when she went blind), I assume the later. Then again, all that smirking by the waif makes me think she is in training and might not ever finish.
eball Posted June 10, 2016 Posted June 10, 2016 What if the Faceless Twit has really just been an alternate persona of Arya all along?
Deranged Rhino Posted June 10, 2016 Posted June 10, 2016 What if the Faceless Twit has really just been an alternate persona of Arya all along? Then it will mean I would have smoked WAAAAAAAAAAAAY too much "medicine" before viewing the episode.
MDH Posted June 10, 2016 Posted June 10, 2016 Because he wants the Waif to believe she's truly dead. Yeah, I don't buy this theory. I think it's much simpler than that particularly if you piece together the clues they've given you in previews. The preview to season 6 had a shot of Arya in a room (much like the one she was in at the end of episode 5 with Needle) where she blows out a candle. There's an image from the preview of next weeks episode where a bloody hand leaves a print on a stone wall. Arya knows she can't beat the Waif in straight up combat so this is all just an ruse by Arya to lead the Waif into a room where she can turn out the lights and have the advantage. The blood is fake and Arya will later reveal she had some sort of protection on that prevented her from being stabbed. People will say, "but how did she know she wouldn't get her throat slit, or killed some other way??!!" and I have those complaints about TV/Movies all the time. The answer is - it's a TV show and they're more interested in creating these bread crumb cliffhanger endings to episodes that make us tune in next week they are with any sort of realism.
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