K-9 Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Her whole justification to Jon to get him to fight was, direct quote, "We have to save our brother!" Huh? Didn't she warn Jon about letting Ramsay goad him into screwing up right before the battle? It sounds like she knew that could happen. Sansa knows he's coming though. No one else does. I just don't see how that makes sense at all. I'm honestly not being difficult for the sake of it. They were on the eve of battle. How does Sansa whispering "help may arrive tomorrow," get to Ramsay Bolton? Unless Jon sits right down and writes him a letter, it just doesn't happen. So the protract siege possibility is moot. Sansa didn't say anything because it drives tension. Just like "hiding" her letter. Will the Vale get there? Who did Sansa write to!?? Is there any hope for Jon's army?!?! Pure storytelling device that doesn't hold up to logic. I personally think that's stretching. She fled to him (and those around him) to escape Ramsay. She's clearly not afraid someone around her is going to send her back to him. She doesn't "trust" Davos because he worked for Stannis (a man who died trying to kill Ramsay, logic again) for a bit, but Brienne worked for Renly, Cat, Jaime, and wields a Lannister Valyrian sword and she's her main mate? Littlefinger sold her to Boltons, and she trusted him to come back and help her? Yeah, and then last night it was, "Rickon is dead, anyway." Nothing is static; Sansa has come to many new realities. You see her turning evil, I see her realizing certain practicalities. Besides, the Knights of the Vale were on their way WEEKS AGO, regardless. And that was Littlefinger's autonomous decision. Well, once he planted the seed in young Robert's pea brain, anyway. Anyway, good luck wrapping your brain around this. Start a blog. Find others who can't suspend disbelief. Write Benioff a sternly worded letter about crappy story telling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Fair enough. I can sorta see how that would introduce an unstable element. You'd think it'd be easily rectified with a "don't tell anybody so Ramsay doesn't find out," but hey. How do you alter battle plans without telling anybody? Hey guys, by the way I have this cavalry force that balances out a serious deficiency in the make up of our army. But i'm not going to use it. That's some Maginot Line French level poor military strategy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 (edited) Yeah, and then last night it was, "Rickon is dead, anyway." Nothing is static; Sansa has come to many new realities. You see her turning evil, I see her realizing certain practicalities. Besides, the Knights of the Vale were on their way WEEKS AGO, regardless. And that was Littlefinger's autonomous decision. Well, once he planted the seed in young Robert's pea brain, anyway. Anyway, good luck wrapping your brain around this. Start a blog. Find others who can't suspend disbelief. Write Benioff a sternly worded letter about crappy story telling. Someone's upset I criticized their show a little bit? Sansa came to realize Ramsay is evil.......after walking around with Jon Snow for a while. Not during the whole rape, murder, torture phase. Edited June 21, 2016 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Someone's upset I criticized their show a little bit? No, not at all. I just think it's funny. Actually, I appreciate the critical analysis and different insights. Good food for thought all around. Sorry Chan, you just don't wield enough power to piss me off here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 No, not at all. I just think it's funny. Actually, I appreciate the critical analysis and different insights. Good food for thought all around. Sorry Chan, you just don't wield enough power to piss me off here. Okay, good. I took that a little more biting than it was intended probably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Someone's upset I criticized their show a little bit? Sansa came to realize Ramsay is evil.......after walking around with Jon Snow for a while. Not during the whole rape, murder, torture phase. I'm upset you did it stupidly, mixing narrative decisions with character motivation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 I'm upset you did it stupidly, mixing narrative decisions with character motivation. If you're struggling to follow, just let me know next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 If you're struggling to follow, just let me know next time. Because you can somehow make sense of the complete absence of the fourth wall? No matter how thin you slice it, it's still baloney. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Because you can somehow make sense of the complete absence of the fourth wall? No matter how thin you slice it, it's still baloney. Now you've lost me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 I think this conflict found full resolution upon their reunion and subsequent talks at Castle Black. They kind of chuckled at this notion when they were reminiscing. It did, certainly. But in terms of reasons for Sansa wanting to play things close to the vest, I think it's something that shouldn't be overlooked. I personally think that's stretching. She fled to him (and those around him) to escape Ramsay. She's clearly not afraid someone around her is going to send her back to him. She doesn't "trust" Davos because he worked for Stannis (a man who died trying to kill Ramsay, logic again) for a bit, but Brienne worked for Renly, Cat, Jaime, and wields a Lannister Valyrian sword and she's her main mate? Littlefinger sold her to Boltons, and she trusted him to come back and help her? I don't think she was ever in fear of Snow sending her back to Ramsay. I do think she's learned that there are eyes and ears everywhere. I also don't think she fully trusted Littlefinger to show, which gave her another reason not to let it slip. I just think there are plenty of reasons for Sansa to keep that bit of info to herself without it making her evil or stupid. Even if they didn't have the best relationship, they were still brother and sister. Well they were raised as brother and sister anyways even if Snow's lineage may not exactly be what hey were told. And if a girl can't trust your brother, who can she trust? Unless you're a Lannister. Then you're f*cking your brothers, but each in a different way I'm with you. I'm not arguing she thinks Snow would betray her, but even when we know we can trust someone, a person who's seen what Sansa has seen, experienced what she's experienced, might still have trouble being entirely forthcoming when it comes to matters of life and death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Christ Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 you guys are definitely giving Sansa too much credit and also looking too much into it........ Read up guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Jerky Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Sucks the big Giant died, I guess he was the last of the Giants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 A couple of thoughts after my usual Monday re-watch of GoT on Go. The latter part of the battle reminded me of the scene from Ridley Scott's "kingdom of heaven" where the Muslims attempt to enter Jerusalem through a breached wall and they are met by balian's forces in a space where the mass of bodies collides and has no where to go. Sorry to see wun go, but glad tormund survived. I was surprised to hear benioff state (inside the episode on Go) that jon's survival was more luck than anything else. I got the impression, which I thought they were trying to create, that there was some divine intervention there. Ramsey's constant volleys of arrows to take snow down, and his frustration when he couldn't, gave me the impression there was something more than luck going on? I'm glad they are reducing the number of episodes in the final two seasons. The remaining plot line requires movie-like budgets and I think the past two seasons had a few episodes that suffered from needing to save $$ for the epic ones--"hard home" and this battle. Re the final episode, I will be shocked if they don't reveal Jon's lineage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Jerky Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 I am waiting for FireChan to complain about the dragons and saying "there is no such thing as dragons, why are they in the story" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 I am waiting for FireChan to complain about the dragons and saying "there is no such thing as dragons, why are they in the story" Well that's a horrific point, but not entirely unexpected out of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricojes Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Yeah, and then last night it was, "Rickon is dead, anyway." Nothing is static; Sansa has come to many new realities. You see her turning evil, I see her realizing certain practicalities. I don't think she's "turning evil", I believe you summed it up in the previous sentence, she accepting reality. You have to be ruthless and expect the worst to survive in this world, you can't sugar coat things and wish for the best. Having this mind set makes her much more dangerous, but not evil. I'm glad they are reducing the number of episodes in the final two seasons. The remaining plot line requires movie-like budgets and I think the past two seasons had a few episodes that suffered from needing to save $$ for the epic ones--"hard home" and this battle. I agree. They hired something like 500 extra's and it took 25 days to film the battle scene. I will definitely take 7 high quality episodes for the final season... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt in KC Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Catelyn was a weakspot for Litlefinger and Sansa will be too. But like you said, how will Sansa play it? I think we saw a glimpse of Sansa's mindset when she confronted Littlefinger about whether he knew about Ramsey. And two scenes from last night show that Sansa has learned to rules and the stakes of the game. The ending with Ramsey and the argument with Snow in the tent ending with her ominious line about how nobody can protect her. I agree. I hope to see Sansa string Littlefinger along. I don't think she is as good at the "chess game" as LF, but she has learned to do what needs to be done, and to trust sparingly. I strongly suspect she will be LF's demise. Maybe she should ask for a wedding next to the Moon Door at the Vale on a windy day. . . . I didn't mind Sansa not telling Jon about the forces of the Vale. I don't think she got a response; she likely just sent an urgent message, doubting herself. Regardless, I think theyu adress this directly in the finale, talking it out. I don't think she's "turning evil", I believe you summed it up in the previous sentence, she accepting reality. You have to be ruthless and expect the worst to survive in this world, you can't sugar coat things and wish for the best. Having this mind set makes her much more dangerous, but not evil. I agree. They hired something like 500 extra's and it took 25 days to film the battle scene. I will definitely take 7 high quality episodes for the final season... They have said there are 13 episodes left after this season. I think they will call them seasons 7 and 8, versus the first and second half of the final season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Bolton Chow! Good for dogs, who knew? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricojes Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 I agree. I hope to see Sansa string Littlefinger along. I don't think she is as good at the "chess game" as LF, but she has learned to do what needs to be done, and to trust sparingly. I strongly suspect she will be LF's demise. Maybe she should ask for a wedding next to the Moon Door at the Vale on a windy day. . . . I didn't mind Sansa not telling Jon about the forces of the Vale. I don't think she got a response; she likely just sent an urgent message, doubting herself. Regardless, I think theyu adress this directly in the finale, talking it out. They have said there are 13 episodes left after this season. I think they will call them seasons 7 and 8, versus the first and second half of the final season. My bad, 6 high quality episodes in the final season... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt in KC Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 My bad, 6 high quality episodes in the final season... No problem at all. I wanted to make sure you knew there was more than just the next abbreviated season. I don't care at all about nitpicking the episode numbers. Hell, I think they might well change their minds and add a few, especially if the next book comes out this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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