section122 Posted April 16, 2014 Posted April 16, 2014 I laughed. So, I believe there is a short list of non "situational" backs. Peterson, Lynch, Forte... Not many. I disagree. Let's go through the list. Steven Jackson, Frank Gore, Rashard Mendenhall, MJD, Arian Foster, Doug Martin, Jamaal Charles, Forte, Lynch, Peterson, Lacy, McCoy, Matthews, Stacy, McFadden, Morris, Reggie Bush, Trent Richardson. Only a few of those guys are even close to as fast as Spiller. But on third and one, I'd take almost all of them OVER Spiller. That list is terrible! Steven Jackson - way over the hill Mendenhall - retired Mjd - maybe when he's not injured Matthews - 1 good year out of how many after how many years in the league? McFadden - so injury prone you can't count on him Morris - check his reception numbers runner only Reggie bush - check his rushing numbers more of a spiller type back and def not someone you would count on for 3rd and 1 Trent Richardson - bro do you even football? He is terrible! Which leaves: Gore - age and injury concerns also more of a pound the rock type guy than a receiver Foster - I think his better days are behind him his usage was crazy the 3 years previous to this bit I'll give him to you Doug Martin - looked terrible last year before getting hurt Stacy and lacy each were rookies last year but certainly look to be feature backs but could just as easily go the Doug Martin route There are some but you really only listed 4 guys who are proven and coming off of years where they did so again. It just isn't the way the game goes anymore. For 3rd and 1 the bills have Fred Jackson (who didn't have much success himself last year with those). I think you will find many more teams subscribe to te rbbc approach and have 2 guys. Run down that list of teams and I think you'll find it is a much longer list than the teams who have a do it all guy. Spiller to me is falling victim to the donte whitner issue. Forget that he went #9 are the Bills better with him or without him? I honestly don't see how they would be better without him. No player in Buffalo gets any slack for getting hurt...
FireChan Posted April 16, 2014 Posted April 16, 2014 That list is terrible! Steven Jackson - way over the hill Mendenhall - retired Mjd - maybe when he's not injured Matthews - 1 good year out of how many after how many years in the league? McFadden - so injury prone you can't count on him Morris - check his reception numbers runner only Reggie bush - check his rushing numbers more of a spiller type back and def not someone you would count on for 3rd and 1 Trent Richardson - bro do you even football? He is terrible! Which leaves: Gore - age and injury concerns also more of a pound the rock type guy than a receiver Foster - I think his better days are behind him his usage was crazy the 3 years previous to this bit I'll give him to you Doug Martin - looked terrible last year before getting hurt Stacy and lacy each were rookies last year but certainly look to be feature backs but could just as easily go the Doug Martin route There are some but you really only listed 4 guys who are proven and coming off of years where they did so again. It just isn't the way the game goes anymore. For 3rd and 1 the bills have Fred Jackson (who didn't have much success himself last year with those). I think you will find many more teams subscribe to te rbbc approach and have 2 guys. Run down that list of teams and I think you'll find it is a much longer list than the teams who have a do it all guy. Spiller to me is falling victim to the donte whitner issue. Forget that he went #9 are the Bills better with him or without him? I honestly don't see how they would be better without him. No player in Buffalo gets any slack for getting hurt... You aren't giving McFadden slack, why should I give Spiller any? You said there aren't many none situational backs. I gave you a list of RB's who are clear starters on their roster. You can't say they don't count because of their "age and injury concerns." Sproles is a situational back. So is Joique Bell. So is Shane Vereen. So is Roy Helu Jr. Those teams DO NOT build around their situational RB's.
Buffalo Barbarian Posted April 16, 2014 Posted April 16, 2014 According to a csn reporter. Saw it from joe buscaglia. This was before they acquired sproles. http://www.csnphilly...bout-cj-spiller It is interesting that the general consensus is that this Bills coaching staff isn't crazy about Spiller, yet that may not be true if they didn't even listen to an offer for a RB heading into a contract year. On an unrelated note, it is a pain in the buttocks that I can't use the enter key when typing a response via laptop on this site. That is all. that would have been nice
NDBUFFCUSEFAN Posted April 16, 2014 Posted April 16, 2014 If I may ... I think it is news, as Bandit says, because it involves CJ Spiller. I also believe that it's likely commonplace for teams to throw their hats in the ring, realizing there's a 99.9% chance the other team will reject any offer made - therefore making it not newsworthy. This happens in all of sports. The first thing I saw on espn.com this morning was that Michael Phelps was un-retiring. That. Is not news. The most decorated Olympian unretiring is news, thanks for furthering my case that you are the most uninformed poster here.
BillsBytheBay Posted April 16, 2014 Posted April 16, 2014 @ beerball. That why I called them non situational backs. What I meant is they are cow bell backs..... But cow bell backs are more rare than talented QB's at this point.
BillsBytheBay Posted April 16, 2014 Posted April 16, 2014 @ firechan The only two from you're list I would add are McCoy and Charles. If you disagree, we have a diffrent definition of bell cow back. Few of the teams you mentioned run their offense through one back. (McFadden? Richardson? MJD?) We were talking about focusing the offense around a situational back. I said I think we can with two talented backs.
NoSaint Posted April 16, 2014 Posted April 16, 2014 (edited) You aren't giving McFadden slack, why should I give Spiller any? You said there aren't many none situational backs. I gave you a list of RB's who are clear starters on their roster. You can't say they don't count because of their "age and injury concerns." Sproles is a situational back. So is Joique Bell. So is Shane Vereen. So is Roy Helu Jr. Those teams DO NOT build around their situational RB's. I don't think he's saying McFadden sucks, just that he's not a proven workhorse. He's also not arguing that spiller is a 300 carry every down workhorse either. Can we all atleast agree that you made a list of unquestioned #1s on their roster with a player that retired and 2 guys on the same team? That atleast cuts it down a little bit without much to argue over before getting into the merits of if a 31 year old Steven Jackson coming off a 150 carry season is still that guy (fair question but not sure that the answer changes that much here).... There aren't many 300 touch guys out there. A few, sure. But most teams are spreading those out a lot, even with productive guys. It's still odd to me that you group bush as an workhorse back when spiller is probably his closest comparable player in the league skillset wise, but at different spots in their career arc and schemes around them. It's hard for me to say bush can do anything spiller can't. Edited April 16, 2014 by NoSaint
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted April 16, 2014 Posted April 16, 2014 I didn't realize so many people are done with Spiller already. I'm glad that that the Bills didn't even entertain the offer. What people need to really see is that Fred will be the first out the door. So, I believe there is a short list of non "situational" backs. Peterson, Lynch, Forte... Not many. I believe you can build an offense around a situational back. But with two talented situational backs it's could be very effective. I would love to see them take a late round power back to develop behind Fred. I dont think the team has many holes. Don't toss a talented player for a draft pick. Keep the talent. People seem to throw the idea of tradeing talented players for picks, like there guaranteed hits. Better QB play will improve the running game and everything else. I didn't say I was done with CJ. I intended to say that he's either on his game or hes not. We need him to produce well in over 80% of his games season after season.
thebandit27 Posted April 16, 2014 Posted April 16, 2014 I don't think he's saying McFadden sucks, just that he's not a proven workhorse. He's also not arguing that spiller is a 300 carry every down workhorse either. Can we all atleast agree that you made a list of unquestioned #1s on their roster with a player that retired and 2 guys on the same team? That atleast cuts it down a little bit without much to argue over before getting into the merits of if a 31 year old Steven Jackson coming off a 150 carry season is still that guy (fair question but not sure that the answer changes that much here).... There aren't many 300 touch guys out there. A few, sure. But most teams are spreading those out a lot, even with productive guys. It's still odd to me that you group bush as an workhorse back when spiller is probably his closest comparable player in the league skillset wise, but at different spots in their career arc and schemes around them. It's hard for me to say bush can do anything spiller can't. Especially given this: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/04/15/lions-intend-to-split-the-running-back-role-between-bush-and-bell/
Gugny Posted April 16, 2014 Posted April 16, 2014 The most decorated Olympian unretiring is news, thanks for furthering my case that you are the most uninformed poster here. No. It's not. And thanks for the compliment.
NoSaint Posted April 16, 2014 Posted April 16, 2014 No. It's not. And thanks for the compliment. avoiding the chad kelly thread this morning?
section122 Posted April 16, 2014 Posted April 16, 2014 You aren't giving McFadden slack, why should I give Spiller any? You said there aren't many none situational backs. I gave you a list of RB's who are clear starters on their roster. You can't say they don't count because of their "age and injury concerns." Sproles is a situational back. So is Joique Bell. So is Shane Vereen. So is Roy Helu Jr. Those teams DO NOT build around their situational RB's. It wasn't me you were responding too but I had to respond to your post. You are proving my point for me. There are many more rbbc teams than teams who rely on one guy to do it all. The bell cow bak that is mentioned later on. Also McFadden and Spiller's injury histories are completely different. Spiller got hurt and played McFadden appears to be made out of glass. Why does spiller have to be something he isn't though? He was drafted as a waterbug back. He wasn't drafted as an ap type back. Expecting hi to be something he isn't will lead to disappointment.
Mr. WEO Posted April 16, 2014 Posted April 16, 2014 Was it that long ago that the Bills were insisting they had "no interest" in trading Lynch?
YoloinOhio Posted April 16, 2014 Posted April 16, 2014 Was it that long ago that the Bills were insisting they had "no interest" in trading Lynch? Apple, meet orange.
YoloinOhio Posted April 16, 2014 Posted April 16, 2014 nah.. Until CJ runs over a woman on Chippewa and is one strike away from a year long suspension, I don't see much similarity.
Mr. WEO Posted April 16, 2014 Posted April 16, 2014 Until CJ runs over a woman on Chippewa and is one strike away from a year long suspension, I don't see much similarity. Regardless of their motivation to trade, they insisted they weren't interested. Then they traded. Point is that no need to believe they won't deal Spiller, whatever they say.
CodeMonkey Posted April 16, 2014 Posted April 16, 2014 (edited) Until CJ runs over a woman on Chippewa and is one strike away from a year long suspension, I don't see much similarity. I agree. And add until CJ becomes an every down back that an OC does not fear giving the ball to on 3rd down. I respect your opinions, but the whole "one strike away" rationalization is getting very old and more tiresome as time goes by. Edited April 16, 2014 by CodeMonkey
RyanC883 Posted April 16, 2014 Posted April 16, 2014 "Spiller, 26, has 3,021 career rushing yards, 1,070 receiving yards, 1,157 kick return yards and 302 punt-return yards to go along with 18 touchdowns. Hall of Fame running back Gale Sayers is the only other player in NFL history with at least 3,000 rushing yards, 1,000 receiving yards, 1,150 kick-return yards and 300 punt-return yards in his first four seasons." You need 2 RB's to be successful in the NFL. We have that. I don't get all the anti-spiller chatter. He's akin to a baseball player that hits .250 with 40 HR's. No, he doesn't knock it out of the park all the time, but every time he touches the ball he has the opportunity to change the game.
YoloinOhio Posted April 16, 2014 Posted April 16, 2014 (edited) I agree. And add until CJ becomes an every down back that an OC does not fear giving the ball to on 3rd down. I respect your opinions, but the whole "one strike away" rationalization is getting very old and more tiresome as time goes by. I didn't rationalize anything about the Lynch trade. My comment was in response to comparing two potential trade scenarios - CJ Spiller and Marshawn Lynch. IMO, they are not the same. I believe there would have been more motivation with Lynch. Perhaps the fact that CJ is not an every-down back is also motivation. But I think the Lynch trade would have more for the reasons I cited. JMO. Edited April 16, 2014 by YoloinOhio
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