Buyout clause in lease ONLY to move to new stadium NOT for relocation

[CodeMonkey]

Any lease can be broken. That's a given.

 

The "let them believe a lease can never be broken" can just as easily apply to any new prospective owner as well as the fans you seek to condescend to here.

 

There is no denying that this lease will be an expensive proposition to break.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Of course it would be expensive to break the lease. And rightly so as the different entities are looking to invest significantly in stadium improvements.

But anyone here saying the lease cannot be broken is just as silly as someone saying it would be cheap and easy to break it.

New ownership will know what they are going to do and in what time-frame before they buy the team. But whatever they do, the lease will be one of many factors in their decision, not the only one.

[oman128]

Ok, so if the Bon Jovi group buys the Bills, keeps them in Buffalo until year 7 then moves them to Toronto to the Already built Skydome.

 

Erie County gets the 28 million, fans get the shaft, The NFL taps a new market with a population of 2.5 million.

 

 

[thebandit27]

 

Of course it would be expensive to break the lease. And rightly so as the different entities are looking to invest significantly in stadium improvements.

But anyone here saying the lease cannot be broken is just as silly as someone saying it would be cheap and easy to break it.

New ownership will know what they are going to do and in what time-frame before they buy the team. But whatever they do, the lease will be one of many factors in their decision, not the only one.

 

It's not just that it woul be expensive, it's that they have to win in court to gain the right to pay the exorbitant costs to break the lease...a victory that the language of the lease makes extremely difficult to attain.

 

Ok, so if the Bon Jovi group buys the Bills, keeps them in Buffalo until year 7 then moves them to Toronto to the Already built Skydome.

 

Erie County gets the 28 million, fans get the shaft, The NFL taps a new market with a population of 2.5 million.

 

You left out the part where they win in court & build a new stadium since Rogers Centre is a relic that the NFL won't approve.

[K-9]

Of course it would be expensive to break the lease. And rightly so as the different entities are looking to invest significantly in stadium improvements.

But anyone here saying the lease cannot be broken is just as silly as someone saying it would be cheap and easy to break it.

New ownership will know what they are going to do and in what time-frame before they buy the team. But whatever they do, the lease will be one of many factors in their decision, not the only one.

 

It may not be the only consideration, but it's the BIGGEST one and by a wide margin. If I'm a prospective owner with thoughts of relocating them, I have to look long and hard at the idea of paying almost as much in penalties, legal fees, and relocation fees as I did to purchase the team in the first place.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[BuffaloBrad]

While we might informally refer to this whole agreement as a lease, the non-relocation agreement is actually separate from the lease. So even if the lease were voided for some reason, the non relocation agreement would probably remain in effect.

 

The Buffalo News article suggests that any attempt to arrange a move prior to year seven would constitute a breach of the agreements, so I'd guess it's possible that even executing a buyout in year seven in order to move would result in a court battle over whether it was a breach of the non-relocation agreement.

[NoSaint]

 

 

It may not be the only consideration, but it's the BIGGEST one and by a wide margin. If I'm a prospective owner with thoughts of relocating them, I have to look long and hard at the idea of paying almost as much in penalties, legal fees, and relocation fees as I did to purchase the team in the first place.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

And that assumes the nfl would approve and back your plan to screw the "iron clad lease." Not the image I think they want in future negotiations.

[metzelaars_lives]

Ok guys lets get to reality. The lease can say whatever it wants, it doesn't make it LEGAL. Bottom line no court can or will force an entity to be a tenant against their will. The state can file an injunction and any owner with a law firm worth its salt will get it busted in appeals court in 15 days tops. The County has to prove 400 mill in damages and they cant. Look its all bluster to appease fans and keep them calm as long as possible. The real bottom line is this, a new owner could move them in 2016 if he saw fit. You aren't going to detract billionaires with a 400 million fine. BTW saying any fine, etc of that magnitude has to be paid in 30 days is pure bull **** as well.

 

There is no way in hell you can say that and be 100% correct. Now I get it makes many of you feel good while whistling through the grave yard, but reality of business is if they want to move them this lease won't stop it.

Why are you so hell bent on this crusade of yours? I don't profess to know much about this topic but you are literally the only one around here who feels this way so it's kind of difficult to take you seriously. EDIT: And I'm not certain that the average law firm could nullify a lease with state of New York in a New York State courtroom in two weeks. And I'm also not certain that a $400 million fine wouldn't detract a billionaire from moving the team. From an investment standpoint, it would take a prospective owner a lifetime to profit more in a new city vs. what they would profit by just staying in Buffalo to add up to $400 million. It simply would not be lucrative to eat a $400 million fine under any circumstances. You are really grasping at straws to support your argument on this one.

Edited April 13, 2014 by metzelaars_lives

[boyst]

"A New Stadium Working Group has been assembled to confront that reality, knowing all the while that the lease does allow the Bills to leave town relatively painlessly in 2020."

I dont think you can describe a court injuction barring you from leaving as "relatively painlessly"

I am not worried about any "group" because I realize that these groups are just methods for these people to pad their pockets with free money. You know, they'll get like $25,000 to be on the committee, $16k for travel expenses, $10k in misc expenditures, and so on...

[HopefulFuture]

While we might informally refer to this whole agreement as a lease, the non-relocation agreement is actually separate from the lease. So even if the lease were voided for some reason, the non relocation agreement would probably remain in effect.

 

The Buffalo News article suggests that any attempt to arrange a move prior to year seven would constitute a breach of the agreements, so I'd guess it's possible that even executing a buyout in year seven in order to move would result in a court battle over whether it was a breach of the non-relocation agreement.

 

After years and years of hearing whispers of the Bills leaving Buffalo combined with the passion of fans across multiple socail media sites one thing is abunduntly clear, Bills fans let their emotions blind them to the realities of the situation both the organization and the region find themselves in.

 

The truth is, Buffalo is a continuing shrinking region population wise. Even if it flatlines and levels off to non population losses, the damage already done is far to serious to believe relocation isn't a very real possibility.

 

The facts are clear here.

Fact, Buffalo is not an NFL market that makes or breaks the bank. It's a low end market in point of fact. Once you get past the ticket sales, you have to consider a multitude of other revenue streams, not the least of which is television veiwership and NFL merchandise sales. Don't think for one moment there aren't better markets out there for this, there is.

Fact, the regional leadership of WNY (i.e. political, business, community) is devoid of any real power. The only individual with the financial means to purchase the team and put a new stadium up is Terry Pegula in all earnest. There isn't another local wealth family/individual with the financial capabilities to do both at this time.

Fact, given the projections of stagnation economically for the greater region, there is not one single projection of any substantial growth in the area for the forseeable future.

 

There are many more facets of factors that come in to play. But be not fooled, the Bills, in my most humble opinion, are gone, either in year 7 or at the end of the lease. The writing is on the wall here people, don't get angry about my opinion. It's just that, but it's also formulated by a great deal of facts.

[thebandit27]

 

 

After years and years of hearing whispers of the Bills leaving Buffalo combined with the passion of fans across multiple socail media sites one thing is abunduntly clear, Bills fans let their emotions blind them to the realities of the situation both the organization and the region find themselves in.

 

The truth is, Buffalo is a continuing shrinking region population wise. Even if it flatlines and levels off to non population losses, the damage already done is far to serious to believe relocation isn't a very real possibility.

 

The facts are clear here.

Fact, Buffalo is not an NFL market that makes or breaks the bank. It's a low end market in point of fact. Once you get past the ticket sales, you have to consider a multitude of other revenue streams, not the least of which is television veiwership and NFL merchandise sales. Don't think for one moment there aren't better markets out there for this, there is.

Fact, the regional leadership of WNY (i.e. political, business, community) is devoid of any real power. The only individual with the financial means to purchase the team and put a new stadium up is Terry Pegula in all earnest. There isn't another local wealth family/individual with the financial capabilities to do both at this time.

Fact, given the projections of stagnation economically for the greater region, there is not one single projection of any substantial growth in the area for the forseeable future.

 

There are many more facets of factors that come in to play. But be not fooled, the Bills, in my most humble opinion, are gone, either in year 7 or at the end of the lease. The writing is on the wall here people, don't get angry about my opinion. It's just that, but it's also formulated by a great deal of facts.

 

Actually, a few of the statement you label as "facts" are either opinions (the local legislators have no power) or erroneous (the population in WNY is shrinking--the census data don't support that).

 

You may feel that the Bills will leave, and that's fine--it just isn't supported by fact at the moment.

[HopefulFuture]

Actually, a few of the statement you label as "facts" are either opinions (the local legislators have no power) or erroneous (the population in WNY is shrinking--the census data don't support that).

 

You may feel that the Bills will leave, and that's fine--it just isn't supported by fact at the moment.

 

Actually, both are facts. 19.2% of the census results from 2010 show dual state residency (also known as snowbirds). That number shows a continued exodus from the region.

I never stated they have no power, I stated they have no leadership which leads to no power. There is a difference there.

Edited April 13, 2014 by HopefulFuture

[metzelaars_lives]

After years and years of hearing whispers of the Bills leaving Buffalo combined with the passion of fans across multiple socail media sites one thing is abunduntly clear, Bills fans let their emotions blind them to the realities of the situation both the organization and the region find themselves in.

 

The truth is, Buffalo is a continuing shrinking region population wise. Even if it flatlines and levels off to non population losses, the damage already done is far to serious to believe relocation isn't a very real possibility.

 

The facts are clear here.

Fact, Buffalo is not an NFL market that makes or breaks the bank. It's a low end market in point of fact. Once you get past the ticket sales, you have to consider a multitude of other revenue streams, not the least of which is television veiwership and NFL merchandise sales. Don't think for one moment there aren't better markets out there for this, there is.

Fact, the regional leadership of WNY (i.e. political, business, community) is devoid of any real power. The only individual with the financial means to purchase the team and put a new stadium up is Terry Pegula in all earnest. There isn't another local wealth family/individual with the financial capabilities to do both at this time.

Fact, given the projections of stagnation economically for the greater region, there is not one single projection of any substantial growth in the area for the forseeable future.

 

There are many more facets of factors that come in to play. But be not fooled, the Bills, in my most humble opinion, are gone, either in year 7 or at the end of the lease. The writing is on the wall here people, don't get angry about my opinion. It's just that, but it's also formulated by a great deal of facts.

Your post is right in line with your name, that's for sure.

[thebandit27]

 

 

Actually, both are facts. 19.2% of the census results from 2010 show dual state residency (also known as snowbirds). That number shows a continued exodus from the region.

I never stated they have no power, I stated they have no leadership which leads to no power. There is a difference there.

 

Dual residency is not a declining population.

 

And your statement on leadership is an opinion--your posts read smart enough that I'm sure you know the difference.

[HopefulFuture]

Your post is right in line with your name, that's for sure.

 

I never said it was a pretty opinion of the situation. I wouldn't like to see them leave if your wondering. But in the end, what other analysis can I deduce? I have to go on what is in front of me. Hell, I'd love the region to turn it around, but the truth is, and we all know this, the area hasn't recovered from multiple situations. Massive chemical dumps, abandoned business of larger employment scale either being razed to the ground or sitting as eyesore's of an era long since gone, and the list goes on.

 

Dual residency is not a declining population.

 

And your statement on leadership is an opinion--your posts read smart enough that I'm sure you know the difference.

 

Look back at the last 40 years of local executive/legislative initiatives. Do you see any that show real progress to a post chemical/manufacturing based economy? I sure don't. That would be considered fact, would it not?

 

And as for dual residency, it is a direct impact to the region when that number of individuals openly admit to not spending money in the WNY region for various factors, taxes being one of them, but not the only one. As I said, it's not a pretty opinion of mine, but it's what I have to go on.

Edited April 13, 2014 by HopefulFuture

[K-9]

After years and years of hearing whispers of the Bills leaving Buffalo combined with the passion of fans across multiple socail media sites one thing is abunduntly clear, Bills fans let their emotions blind them to the realities of the situation both the organization and the region find themselves in.

 

The truth is, Buffalo is a continuing shrinking region population wise. Even if it flatlines and levels off to non population losses, the damage already done is far to serious to believe relocation isn't a very real possibility.

 

The facts are clear here.

Fact, Buffalo is not an NFL market that makes or breaks the bank. It's a low end market in point of fact. Once you get past the ticket sales, you have to consider a multitude of other revenue streams, not the least of which is television veiwership and NFL merchandise sales. Don't think for one moment there aren't better markets out there for this, there is.

Fact, the regional leadership of WNY (i.e. political, business, community) is devoid of any real power. The only individual with the financial means to purchase the team and put a new stadium up is Terry Pegula in all earnest. There isn't another local wealth family/individual with the financial capabilities to do both at this time.

Fact, given the projections of stagnation economically for the greater region, there is not one single projection of any substantial growth in the area for the forseeable future.

 

There are many more facets of factors that come in to play. But be not fooled, the Bills, in my most humble opinion, are gone, either in year 7 or at the end of the lease. The writing is on the wall here people, don't get angry about my opinion. It's just that, but it's also formulated by a great deal of facts.

 

"Television viewership" is a canard. Moving a team to a market with more "viewership", won't move the needle much in terms of national TV ratings. And L.A., thought to be the golden goose of TV audience numbers, is a two-edged sword as the Rams and Raiders often placed 3rd in their timeslots on Sunday afternoons. That is NOT good news for local affiliates.

 

Still, Buffalo's viewing "market" could be considered the 4th largest in North America when taking Ontario into consideration. Buffalo also ranks higher than most NFL cities in TV ratings and has done so consistently.

 

What makes LA and similar markets most appealing to NFL owners, is that the value of a franchise there would increase the value of every franchise in the league. That value lies mostly in the sheer amount of unshared revenues driven by corporate dollars and far higher disposable income in the area. TV has little to do with it.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Edited April 13, 2014 by K-9

[dave mcbride]

The most ridiculous scenario to me is the one in which the league smiles upon a sale that occurs this year to a Toronto-based group that is clearly intending to move to Toronto in 2020. Yep, the NFL will be thrilled with a disastrous situation in Buffalo in which local fans mutiny publicly on an annual basis from late 2014 through 2019. And in which NY State politicians - especially Schumer, who is actually quite powerful - target the league every year over the Bills relocation issue.

 

Like that'll happen.

[HopefulFuture]

I agree with your assessment of LA as a market to a point. But other variables come in to play. The ability to absorb more local money into a new stadium for example. Its not set in stone that the Bills will leave, it's just my opinion, but I have to admit to myself that its not the best of positions we find ourselves in.

The most ridiculous scenario to me is the one in which the league smiles upon a sale that occurs this year to a Toronto-based group that is clearly intending to move to Toronto in 2020. Yep, the NFL will be thrilled with a disastrous situation in Buffalo in which local fans mutiny publicly on an annual basis from late 2014 through 2019. And in which NY State politicians - especially Schumer, who is actually quite powerful - target the league every year over the Bills relocation issue.

 

Like that'll happen.

Toronto is a viable market without the WNY regions support. It's viable.

There are other cities with the ability to handle an NFL franchise quite successfully. I can see South Carolina successfully handling a team either in Charleston or Columbia. Texas has a couple of locations with the ability to successfully handle a team. There's also the ability to locate to one of the BIG 5 (Top 5 cities in the US population wise) to handle a 2nd team. Many options available to a new owner and the NFL.

[dave mcbride]

I agree with your assessment of LA as a market to a point. But other variables come in to play. The ability to absorb more local money into a new stadium for example. Its not set in stone that the Bills will leave, it's just my opinion, but I have to admit to myself that its not the best of positions we find ourselves in.

 

Toronto is a viable market without the WNY regions support. It's viable.

There are other cities with the ability to handle an NFL franchise quite successfully. I can see South Carolina successfully handling a team either in Charleston or Columbia. Texas has a couple of locations with the ability to successfully handle a team. There's also the ability to locate to one of the BIG 5 (Top 5 cities in the US population wise) to handle a 2nd team. Many options available to a new owner and the NFL.

I think you're missing my point about this scenario would play out in reality and not in the abstract. PR-wise, it would be disastrous for the league for at least half a decade, and the payoff -- such as it is, given the weakness of Toronto fan support for the NFL -- is a long way away.

Edited April 13, 2014 by dave mcbride

[bowery4]

There is another way to look at this. Really the TV money is king. What they make at the stadium is candy in comparison. Look at how the famous soccer clubs in England are in the biggest markets. Oh wait, they aren't. Winning will make merchandise sell and money come to the city. NFL is clearly looking at filling stadiums (for TV ratings sake, which is one of our main problems since the Ralph is just to big). I am surprised Jacksonville's owner got a seat in the clubhouse but maybe they think the market there is still develop-able.

 

Ours is established but our "poor" stadium is an issue. But that can be fixed by retro fitting it like KC or GB or building a new one. I think that the NFL knows moving the Bills would be problematic as far as branding, in an historical light. I don't think they want that but I could be wrong, since I have no privy to what these guys really think and neither do any of us. Moving them would be expensive and risky to the league IMHO, though. There are a lot of issues, even re-alining divisions would be called into play.

That is all beside the lease, the agreement about relocation (which is separate from the lease). This is a complicated issue, but I really think the NFL doesn't want a Cleveland headache again.

Edited April 13, 2014 by bowery4

[CodeMonkey]

It may not be the only consideration, but it's the BIGGEST one and by a wide margin. If I'm a prospective owner with thoughts of relocating them, I have to look long and hard at the idea of paying almost as much in penalties, legal fees, and relocation fees as I did to purchase the team in the first place.

 

GO BILLS!!!

I believe your opinion is too short sighted. In my opinion, anyone with the resources to buy an NFL franchise is thinking of long term, not short term, profitability. Any fees, fines, costs etc. to relocate the team if they so desired would be factored in as part of the one time cost of ownership. A cost which could be made up in some number of years in a larger, more profitable, market.

 

Unfortunately I don't deal in billion dollar purchases any more than I assume you do. So you may well be right. Or at the very least the new owners could conclude that it is in their better interests to leave the team in Buffalo for 5 or 6 years for the opt-out while they make arrangements (build a new stadium for example) somewhere else. I guess we will see when the time comes.