Offensive Line Draft picks are more successful

[Kirby Jackson]

 

 

That really sucks for the kid...And he's a guy I had my eye on because although he projects to OG he did play a lot of OT in College so he could provide nice depth for some team...

I liked him too. Hopefully someone takes a chance on him and waits for him to recover.

[thebandit27]

He shouldn't...But he may if all 3 QB's go top 8, and Mike Evans goes #7 to Tampa...Of course that's assuming Clowney, Robinson, Watkins,and Mack also go top 8...

 

If the three QB's and Evans go top 8 then either Mack or Matthews slides to #9...

 

That's a GIGANTIC if...I mean, I hope it happens and Matthews is there at 9...just don't see it.

 

Agreed. I know a couple scouts that feel the exact same way. He plays with an edge and he's still learning the position. Sky's the limit for him.

 

 

 

That really sucks. He was climbing, too. I won't be surprised if someone takes a 7th round flier this year and waits a couple seasons for him to rehab. He's a player.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

I'm going to go out on a limb and say Thomas still gets picked in the top 5 rounds of this draft...I still believe he could've played OT in the NFL. I know certain teams liked him as a 2nd rounder.

[K-9]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say Thomas still gets picked in the top 5 rounds of this draft...I still believe he could've played OT in the NFL. I know certain teams liked him as a 2nd rounder.

 

I can see that happening, too. Like I said, he was rising. I had heard late 2nd, early 3rd. So yeah, some team with the talent and patience to get him into their system and rehab him, could well take him earlier than his injury would suggest. I just feel bad for the kid.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[thebandit27]

I can see that happening, too. Like I said, he was rising. I had heard late 2nd, early 3rd. So yeah, some team with the talent and patience to get him into their system and rehab him, could well take him earlier than his injury would suggest. I just feel bad for the kid.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

Me too...that game he had against South Carolina was incredible.

[BigBuff423]

I just don't see any way Matthews gets to 9

 

And you may be right, but FWIW, here's my thoughts to why I think Matthews could make it to 9:

 

1. Houston: Clowney

2. St. Louis: Watkins

3. Jacksonville: Manziel (need a Face to brand, desperately)

4. Cleveland: Mack

5. Raiders: Carr

6. Atlanta: Robinson

7. Tampa Bay: Evans

8. Minnesota: Bortles

 

I think Bridgewater slips a bit to a team that already has a solid team in place but wants a QB who is ready to play but doesn't "need" him to step in today, ala Arizona...

 

That's why I think Matthews makes it to 9, and why St. Louis would like to jump in front of Detroit who probably takes Gilbert, but could take Matthews due to the grade Matthews gets, but he definitely doesn't make it past Tennessee or the Giants, both in real need of Offensive line help, and since trying to gamble with Detroit's pick is essentially meaningless once Buffalo is on the clock, they take it....JMO

[Bills Fan of St Augustine]

Sorry dude. The 13th left tackle makes more $$ than the 1st right tackle. Money talks, BS walks.

Yeah, and if you read my post I said the gap is closing and in the future won't be as significant. I never said they were equal or even that they will be some day. My point is that we can afford to pay two OTs decent money and solidify our OL for years. It's been too long since we had above average line play. So it's my opinion and take a walk with your BS comment.

[thebandit27]

 

 

And you may be right, but FWIW, here's my thoughts to why I think Matthews could make it to 9:

 

1. Houston: Clowney

2. St. Louis: Watkins

3. Jacksonville: Manziel (need a Face to brand, desperately)

4. Cleveland: Mack

5. Raiders: Carr

6. Atlanta: Robinson

7. Tampa Bay: Evans

8. Minnesota: Bortles

 

I think Bridgewater slips a bit to a team that already has a solid team in place but wants a QB who is ready to play but doesn't "need" him to step in today, ala Arizona...

 

That's why I think Matthews makes it to 9, and why St. Louis would like to jump in front of Detroit who probably takes Gilbert, but could take Matthews due to the grade Matthews gets, but he definitely doesn't make it past Tennessee or the Giants, both in real need of Offensive line help, and since trying to gamble with Detroit's pick is essentially meaningless once Buffalo is on the clock, they take it....JMO

 

If that many teams draft for need instead of value, then sure, I could see it.

 

I don't mean to dismiss the possibility; just saying that the sizable difference between need and value in this draft makes it highly unlikely IMO...but stranger things have happened

[San-O]

Take O-lineman in 1st is fine with me. Makes the whole O better, and would be a major upgrade at RT.

 

Also, I just saw an analysis of WR in this draft, and there appears to be value all over rounds 2 and 3, so getting another WR in this

draft is viable also, IMO.

 

If E.J. can't get the ball out to receivers with an improved O line AND additional receivers, he isn't they guy. Period. IMO.

 

I do suspect he will struggle to get the ball downfield, and this will become more evident with better O line play and deep threats.

 

 

That's why I think Matthews makes it to 9, and why St. Louis would like to jump in front of Detroit who probably takes Gilbert, but could take Matthews due to the grade Matthews gets, but he definitely doesn't make it past Tennessee or the Giants, both in real need of Offensive line help, and since trying to gamble with Detroit's pick is essentially meaningless once Buffalo is on the clock, they take it....JMO

 

WGR says that Mathews is visiting today. Any word on this?

 

 

http://www.wgr550.com/two-bills-drive/18758530

[tennesseeboy]

_{right tackle left tackle is more or less a non-issue. Many "left tackle" (which I always thought was considered a skill position) prospects start as right tackles and move on to left as they get experience. Further people run to the right, and rush over the right tackle. Right tackle is a pretty important position. Any of the three "blue chip" left tackle candidates in this draft could play right tackle and probably slip into left tackle if Cordy Glenn got hurt. OT is the best option for number 9}

[thebandit27]

_{right tackle left tackle is more or less a non-issue. Many "left tackle" (which I always thought was considered a skill position) prospects start as right tackles and move on to left as they get experience. Further people run to the right, and rush over the right tackle. Right tackle is a pretty important position. Any of the three "blue chip" left tackle candidates in this draft could play right tackle and probably slip into left tackle if Cordy Glenn got hurt. OT is the best option for number 9}

 

Not really...very few, in fact, do this...the only time it happens is when a team drafts a guy to be a LT, but has to play him at RT because their current LT is in his final year with the team.

[BigBuff423]

If that many teams draft for need instead of value, then sure, I could see it.

 

I don't mean to dismiss the possibility; just saying that the sizable difference between need and value in this draft makes it highly unlikely IMO...but stranger things have happened

 

yeah, like someone trading up for a pass rush specialist into the top 10, that never happens....wait...what? I did last year?? WTF! I'm just goofing around, but it seems every year stupid and foolish things take place in the early part of the Draft...and except for Evans to the Bucs at 7, all those other guys are worthy of their Draft slot....IMO of course, but if Ebron weren't a "reach" to some with the BILLS at 9, then Evans definitely isn't at 7, again IMO....

[smapdi]

I think the Williams trade was a stroke of genius for Whaley. Improving the o-line was definitely up there for TB, who pick at 7. Acquiring Williams makes Evans a much more enticing play for them now at 7 then going OT IMO. They pretty much have Vjax and nobody @ WR.

 

I really do feel that one of the top 3 linemen will be there for us @ 9. I personally would rate them: Robinson, Matthews, Lewan. I know a lot of people have questions regarding Lewan's off the field stuff but I don't think that is a major concern. I love the fact he is a very nasty OT that finishes his blocks & makes opposing players pay. We need some more of those guys on this team.

 

With near 100% certainty these players will be gone:

 

1.Clowney

2.Manziel

3.Watkins

4.Bridgewater/Bortles

5.Mack

6.Robinson

 

So that is 6 players if only 2 QB's go in the top 8. I have a hard time believing a team like HOU or CLE will pass on a QB with their first pick. I feel like Manziel is a lock in the top 8. Then if OAK gets that itch, that's 3 QB's in the top 8. MIN could also desperately use a QB so you can't rule them out. But let's just say 2 go in the top 8 for the sake of this argument.

 

So that brings us to TB. I think Evans is their target so that brings us to 7

 

That scenario leaves us with either Matthews or Lewan.

 

As another poster proposed, if all 3 OT's are gone, then that most likely means someone very enticing drops.

[Big C]

This type of thinking is what has kept the Bills at or near the bottom of the league for 14+ years IMO. Because its been that long since this franchise had an actual O line that could control the line of scrimmage.

 

But you are right in thinking that one O linemen isn't going to make or break a team, because it is a team sport and that line only succeeds with strong continuity from all five players.

 

Wanna know how many Buffalo Bills O linemen have made the pro bowl the last 20 years? Exactly two, and not at the same time, Ruben Brown an OG who played nine years for the Bills, and LT Jason Peters. That's it!

 

Man, I hope you are right with this train of thought.

 

Although, I'd really be very surprised the bills draft an OT with that #9, even if Matthews is still there.

 

That type of thinking is not the main issue. The main issue is QB play. Aaron Rodgers has been playing behind a dreadful line for years, but he makes it work. Meanwhile the Redskins had great line play last year and RGIII still got clobbered. In terms of the draft, it's also had a lot to do with picking the wrong guys.

 

When you have a high draft pick, you have to go with the guy that's going to make an immediate impact on your team by his play alone. O Line is a unit. Jake Long did not, by himself, lead the Dolphins anywhere. Top 10 draft picks need to be on impact starters. I think Matthews and Robinson can be really good players, but the Bills have our franchise LT and captain/C in Glenn and Wood (who were had in the early second and late first round, respectively) and we don't need to be drafting RT that high. If you don't like who's available at #9, trade down and target a guy like Zach Martin.

[BigBuff423]

So who is the guy they really want? Ebron?

 

Personally, I don't think Ebron, and that's nothing but a hunch although if they do, it would most certainly spell a trade as I don't think Whaley values a TE in top 10....I think unfortunately it's going to be a LB or CB...WR is deep and there are some good tackles to be had in 2nd and 3rd Round and I think if the BILLS trade down, it's to gather more picks for WR and OT in 2nd / 3rd so they can go TE and RB in 3rd and 4th...just a thought...Moseley comes to mind, Justin Gilbert is another...but I think if they trade back, Moseley might be the guy...

[smapdi]

That type of thinking is not the main issue. The main issue is QB play. Aaron Rodgers has been playing behind a dreadful line for years, but he makes it work. Meanwhile the Redskins had great line play last year and RGIII still got clobbered. In terms of the draft, it's also had a lot to do with picking the wrong guys.

 

When you have a high draft pick, you have to go with the guy that's going to make an immediate impact on your team by his play alone. O Line is a unit. Jake Long did not, by himself, lead the Dolphins anywhere. Top 10 draft picks need to be on impact starters. I think Matthews and Robinson can be really good players, but the Bills have our franchise LT and captain/C in Glenn and Wood (who were had in the early second and late first round, respectively) and we don't need to be drafting RT that high. If you don't like who's available at #9, trade down and target a guy like Zach Martin.

 

The problem is, we don't have Aaron Rodgers at them moment. This team is all in on EJ Manuel this season. They also aren't going be a passing offense. I don't know about you, but I'm looking for immediate progress & playoffs this season. I'm sick of missing out. IMO, the defense is good enough to be a playoff unit.

 

Adding that premiere tackle sets us up for success in a variety of ways:

 

- Immediate improvement to the worst unit of our offense

- Gives our young QB (whom they are dead set on; like it or not) more time

- Will improve the running the game which is this team's go-to on offense. CJ Spiller has the talent to be an elite back. We just need a line to help open things up.

- If Manuel busts this season, we have the pieces in place for a new QB to be successful

 

Call me old fashioned but I still feel like games are won and lost in the trenches. Just look at how badly our line was abused last season. If you can dominate at the line, things become much easier for everyone else.

 

Going into the offseason, my idea for this draft was playmaking WR, OT, TE in the first 3 rounds. Stealing Mike Williams takes care of adding a playmaking WR.

 

Now it comes down to what the best value is of OT vs TE in rounds 1 and 2. Give me Matthews or Lewan and then Niklas or ASJ instead of Ebron and ????

 

Niklas is the best in-line blocker in this TE class by far and is just getting started. He is a much better blocker then Ebron and a better redzone threat. Ebron only had 3 TE's and was used more as a split out, over sized WR. Niklas is you more traditional TE and is almost another OT out there at 6'6" / 270.

Edited April 8, 2014 by smapdi

[thebandit27]

yeah, like someone trading up for a pass rush specialist into the top 10, that never happens....wait...what? I did last year?? WTF! I'm just goofing around, but it seems every year stupid and foolish things take place in the early part of the Draft...and except for Evans to the Bucs at 7, all those other guys are worthy of their Draft slot....IMO of course, but if Ebron weren't a "reach" to some with the BILLS at 9, then Evans definitely isn't at 7, again IMO....

 

It's a fair point, and it hasn't escaped my attention. I truly hope teams do silly things and let Matthews slide...he's an excellent player. I'd love to get a top 5 talent at 9.

 

That type of thinking is not the main issue. The main issue is QB play. Aaron Rodgers has been playing behind a dreadful line for years, but he makes it work. Meanwhile the Redskins had great line play last year and RGIII still got clobbered. In terms of the draft, it's also had a lot to do with picking the wrong guys.

 

When you have a high draft pick, you have to go with the guy that's going to make an immediate impact on your team by his play alone. O Line is a unit. Jake Long did not, by himself, lead the Dolphins anywhere. Top 10 draft picks need to be on impact starters. I think Matthews and Robinson can be really good players, but the Bills have our franchise LT and captain/C in Glenn and Wood (who were had in the early second and late first round, respectively) and we don't need to be drafting RT that high. If you don't like who's available at #9, trade down and target a guy like Zach Martin.

 

Bingo...that's the point: top 10 picks need to be top 10 talents.

 

Personally, I don't think Ebron, and that's nothing but a hunch although if they do, it would most certainly spell a trade as I don't think Whaley values a TE in top 10....I think unfortunately it's going to be a LB or CB...WR is deep and there are some good tackles to be had in 2nd and 3rd Round and I think if the BILLS trade down, it's to gather more picks for WR and OT in 2nd / 3rd so they can go TE and RB in 3rd and 4th...just a thought...Moseley comes to mind, Justin Gilbert is another...but I think if they trade back, Moseley might be the guy...

 

I still believe there's a very good chance the Bills move up if they want a guy like Watkins.

 

The problem is, we don't have Aaron Rodgers at them moment. This team is all in on EJ Manuel this season. They also aren't going be a passing offense. I don't know about you, but I'm looking for immediate progress & playoffs this season. I'm sick of missing out. IMO, the defense is good enough to be a playoff unit.

 

Adding that premiere tackle sets us up for success in a variety of ways:

 

- Immediate improvement to the worst unit of our offense

- Gives our young QB (whom they are dead set on; like it or not) more time

- Will improve the running the game which is this team's go-to on offense. CJ Spiller has the talent to be an elite back. We just need a line to help open things up.

- If Manuel busts this season, we have the pieces in place for a new QB to be successful

 

Call me old fashioned but I still feel like games are won and lost in the trenches. Just look at how badly our line was abused last season. If you can dominate at the line, things become much easier for everyone else.

 

Thing is, our line wasn't really abused last season. Most of the protection problems were on the QB's (all 3 of them). Plenty of times the OL did their job in providing protection, but the QBs failed to get themselves into position to be able to take their time for routes to develop. Now, part of the problem stemmed from relative lack of open WRs, which is a big part of why Ike Hilliard was jettisoned.

 

Overall though, the biggest improvement in pass protection will come from the QBs getting comfortable in the pocket; last season, they weren't.

[DOGNESS]

If you want to compete with Sanfran and Seattle you better have an o-line on par with the 92 Cowboys. Thats right. I said it. 92 Cowboys. One of the best o-lines of all time. Getting matthews or lewan would help accomplish that. Im fine with o-line in the first. The Mike Williams signing should get us by for the upcoming year at wr. Draft a receiver in the 3rd or 4th and develop him. Would also like a guard and rb somewhere in rounds 2-4.

[Beerball]

Sorry dude. The 13th left tackle makes more $$ than the 1st right tackle. Money talks, BS walks.

Not really if you're talking about rookie deals. First contracts are slotted by when a player was taken. When it comes time to re-sign a player then the position can come into play but it really doesn't factor in much with the rookie deals.

[smapdi]

Thing is, our line wasn't really abused last season. Most of the protection problems were on the QB's (all 3 of them). Plenty of times the OL did their job in providing protection, but the QBs failed to get themselves into position to be able to take their time for routes to develop. Now, part of the problem stemmed from relative lack of open WRs, which is a big part of why Ike Hilliard was jettisoned.

 

Overall though, the biggest improvement in pass protection will come from the QBs getting comfortable in the pocket; last season, they weren't.

 

You should check out this link: http://www.footballo...rs.com/stats/ol

 

Bills were ranked 29th in pass protection according to their metrics allowing 48 sacks

 

I don't know how allowing 48 sacks is anything other then terrible. Yes, our QB play was awful but the line wasn't much better. Spiller went from 6.0 ypc to 4.6ypc. That wasn't all just due to injuries.

 

Digging even deeper, the Bills were 30th in league running at the LE (RT side) @ only 2.13 adjusted line yards

 

Definitely check out that link if you think the offensive line was anything other then bad last season

 

 

I just think that the drop off from the top 3 of Robinson, Matthews, & Lewan is just too great to find an immediate starter. People have thrown around Martin but he will be gone by our 2nd round pick and there are questions about his ability to play RT at only 6'4

Edited April 8, 2014 by smapdi

[thebandit27]

You should check out this link: http://www.footballo...rs.com/stats/ol

 

Bills were ranked 29th in pass protection according to their metrics allowing 48 sacks

 

I don't know how allowing 48 sacks is anything other then terrible. Yes, our QB play was awful but the line wasn't much better. Spiller went from 6.0 ypc to 4.6ypc. That wasn't all just due to injuries.

 

Digging even deeper, the Bills were 30th in league running at the LE (RT side) @ only 2.13 adjusted line yards

 

Definitely check out that link if you think the offensive line was anything other then bad last season

 

 

I just think that the drop off from the top 3 of Robinson, Matthews, & Lewan is just too great to find an immediate starter. People have thrown around Martin but he will be gone by our 2nd round pick and there are questions about his ability to play RT at only 6'4

 

10 Steps Ahead of ya:

 

http://forums.twobil...e-ol-confusion/

 

EDIT: just realized that comment may have come off sounding sassy...not my intent...sorry

Edited April 8, 2014 by thebandit27