C.Biscuit97 Posted April 5, 2014 Posted April 5, 2014 agreed. bush had never gotten 200 carries until 3 years ago (his final 3 years in NO were 200 carries total)... in the 3 seasons hes had 200 carries he has topped 1000 yards twice and had 984 once.... (an aside - i always find it amusing when people include 1000 yard seasons that are 1001 yards but will leave out a 999 yard season when comparing resumes - not particularly directed at this thread, though the 984 did put it in my mind) I'm not sure I understand this point. In 2 out of his 4 years, Spiller has gotten 200 carries. Bush has went over 200 carries 3 times in 8 years. Yet, Bush averages 4.3 ypc for his career while Spiller averages 5.1. So Spiller has been given a bigger workload earlier in his career & averages almost a full ypc higher. He is a better rusher than Bush. And Spiller plays with the best backup rb in the league. And Spiller didn't get to play with Brees or Payton. Spiller is severely underrated on this board. And this whole idea is BS. What did the Bills really offer? A 7th round pick isn't better than nothing the Titans get for cutting him? BS rumor.
DOGNESS Posted April 5, 2014 Posted April 5, 2014 Fred Jackson is probably in his last year. Maybe one more after this. It makes sense. They will likely draft a back this year if they cant get one in free agency.
DOGNESS Posted April 5, 2014 Posted April 5, 2014 I'm a little taken aback by the amount of Spiller haters. This offense was completely 1 dimensional last season; zero threat from our passing game. When you're starting a rookie or Thad Lewis or Jeff Tuel at QB, defenses know they can stack the box & go after the Bills' most dangerous weapon: CJ Spiller. This completely one dimensional aspect of the offense is what really did this team in. You can't win in today's game when the defense knows that you're going to run the ball because your QB is so inept. Spiller also dealt with injuries (knee, ankle) yet still appeared in 15 games and started 10 of those. The injuries to players around him also had a negative effect. Even with his nagging injuries, defenses' focusing on him completely knowing that Thad Tuel couldn't complete a 10 yard slant, Spiller still managed a respectable season: 202 / 933 / 4.6ypc What really concerned me was that his receptions dropped to only 33- that's barely 2 receptions per game. He needs to be in the 4-5 receptions per game category. Spiller proved he is one of the most deadly players in space & he should have been a main stay in the passing game. Especially with their inexperience at QB- the screen pass and wheel route should have been their young QB's best friends. You don't get rid of Spiller because he doesn't fit into Hackett's scheme; you get rid of Hackett and his terrible scheme if that's how he views a player like Spiller. For Christ's sake, Spiller averaged 6 yards per carry on OVER 200 carries. That is almost unheard of & truly elite production. Yes, he will never be that 300+ carry, ram straight down your throat type RB but that is why you have FJax & Anthony Dixon Once they add a OT in the 1st coupled with the additions of Mike Williams & Chris Williams, and EJ Manuel not being a rookie a healthy Spiller should pick up right where he left off in 2012 FIRE EVERYBODY!!!!!!!
Kirby Jackson Posted April 5, 2014 Posted April 5, 2014 (edited) I'm not sure I understand this point. In 2 out of his 4 years, Spiller has gotten 200 carries. Bush has went over 200 carries 3 times in 8 years. Yet, Bush averages 4.3 ypc for his career while Spiller averages 5.1. So Spiller has been given a bigger workload earlier in his career & averages almost a full ypc higher. He is a better rusher than Bush. And Spiller plays with the best backup rb in the league. And Spiller didn't get to play with Brees or Payton. Spiller is severely underrated on this board. I am still struggling with this. Reggie had 1,512 yards rushing and receiving last year and 7 TDs. He averaged 5.5 yards per touch. If Spiller had that same year wouldn't we be thrilled? 1,006 on the ground with 223 carries and 506 in the air on 54 catches? Spiller averaged 4.8 yards per touch and had 1,118 yards (933 rushing on 202 carries and 185 receiving on 33 catches) and 2 TDs. Over the last 3 years (rushing & receiving): Player A: 631 touches for 3,651 yards (5.8 yards per touch) & 16 TDs Player B: 798 touches for 4,172 yards (5.2 yards per touch) & 22 TDs One of those players is Spiller and one is Reggie Bush. It's debatable as to which I would pick but they just aren't that different to me. Edited April 5, 2014 by Kirby Jackson
DOGNESS Posted April 5, 2014 Posted April 5, 2014 (edited) People can moan and groan about the Bills scheme all they want. Fact is its a power scheme just like the one they use in San Fran and Seattle. The two best teams in the league. Who won the Superbowl last year? The team that punches you in the face with two or three running plays and a half dozen pass plays that they execute to perfection or the team with the 100,000 page playbook with 1500 variations on the five wide set. The Bills are building the type of team needed to compete against Seattle and San Fran. Unfortunately Spiller's running style doesnt fit this team. Best thing to do is trade him and draft a power back. Carlos Hyde would be my choice. Old school smash mouth football still lives. Edited April 5, 2014 by DOGNESS
thebandit27 Posted April 5, 2014 Posted April 5, 2014 People can moan and groan about the Bills scheme all they want. Fact is its a power scheme just like the one they use in San Fran and Seattle. The two best teams in the league. Who won the Superbowl last year? The team that punches you in the face with two or three running plays and a half dozen pass plays that they execute to perfection or the team with the 100,000 page playbook with 1500 variations on the five wide set. The Bills are building the type of team needed to compete against Seattle and San Fran. Unfortunately Spiller's running style doesnt fit this team. Best thing to do is trade him and draft a power back. Carlos Hyde would be my choice. Indeed...the 2 biggest differences between SF/Sea and Buffalo are QB play and run stopping
gobillsinytown Posted April 5, 2014 Posted April 5, 2014 Don't believe everything your read. Schefter is fairly accurate, but not 100 percent. Johnson's agent could be the "source"
Dorkington Posted April 5, 2014 Posted April 5, 2014 A lot of talk on this. The Bills likely just checked in to see what they were looking for, and that's about it.
Mr. WEO Posted April 5, 2014 Posted April 5, 2014 Looks like CJ2k can now be had for 3 warm meals a day.
YoloinOhio Posted April 5, 2014 Posted April 5, 2014 People can moan and groan about the Bills scheme all they want. Fact is its a power scheme just like the one they use in San Fran and Seattle. The two best teams in the league. Who won the Superbowl last year? The team that punches you in the face with two or three running plays and a half dozen pass plays that they execute to perfection or the team with the 100,000 page playbook with 1500 variations on the five wide set. The Bills are building the type of team needed to compete against Seattle and San Fran. Unfortunately Spiller's running style doesnt fit this team. Best thing to do is trade him and draft a power back. Carlos Hyde would be my choice. Old school smash mouth football still lives. I am biased as an OSU fan, but after watching him run for 200+ in the snow and wind last season, I can't stop wishing and hoping he is here. But I highly doubt he goes past the 2nd round and also doubt the Bills take an RB that high. He can do it all though - run, block, catch. He's a load.
Sumin Posted April 5, 2014 Posted April 5, 2014 There's too much being made of this...the Bills knew he was available and made a phone call to see what Tennessee was thinking. Thank you. It also helps that CJ2K is a type of runner who is similar to Spiller. I think that the Bills are looking to gauge what a potential contract might be for Spiller. We don't know their level of interest. I like that they are doing their due diligence, though. It especially surprises me in a good way that they would show interest in a top RB considering we have two solid ones on the roster, but I love the proactive moves. I can accept the argument that the Bills may be looking to shop Spiller. I can see why. Spillers been gimpy and Johnson, for the most part, has remained upright. I do wish to add, however, that RBs are getting paid less and less each year. I don't think Spiller would see as much of an increase as we as fans think he would.
YoloinOhio Posted April 5, 2014 Posted April 5, 2014 Thank you. It also helps that CJ2K is a type of runner who is similar to Spiller. I think that the Bills are looking to gauge what a potential contract might be for Spiller. We don't know their level of interest. I like that they are doing their due diligence, though. It especially surprises me in a good way that they would show interest in a top RB considering we have two solid ones on the roster, but I love the proactive moves. I can accept the argument that the Bills may be looking to shop Spiller. I can see why. Spillers been gimpy and Johnson, for the most part, has remained upright. I do wish to add, however, that RBs are getting paid less and less each year. I don't think Spiller would see as much of an increase as we as fans think he would. I agree on the RB FA market but it only takes on team to think he is worth backing up the money truck if they think he is a missing piece to winning a SB, like Denver for example, for him to leave. Another poster mentioned what a guy like Spiller could do in an offense where he would have tons of room to run based on how defenses need to respect the passing game. Other team that could pay him are GB. NO and NE as well, but less cap space, Again, he could be worth more to another team than he is to the Bills based on the window they are in to win a SB and what they feel they need to win.
K-9 Posted April 5, 2014 Posted April 5, 2014 It's amusing that people think an RB with a career 5.1 YPC average is worth so little. Yeah, yeah it's a "passing" league and RBs are a devalued dime a dozen. Like it or not, Spiller is a rare kind of player from a physical standpoint. And while I know the coaching staff is not enamored with his decision making much of the time (read: AWARENESS), they highly value his homerun capability as a play maker and they love his heart. Trent Richardson garnered a 1st round pick and I firmly believe our 1st and Spiller is enough to move up to a team that values Spiller's game-breaking ability. GO BILLS!!!
NoSaint Posted April 5, 2014 Posted April 5, 2014 (edited) I am still struggling with this. Reggie had 1,512 yards rushing and receiving last year and 7 TDs. He averaged 5.5 yards per touch. If Spiller had that same year wouldn't we be thrilled? 1,006 on the ground with 223 carries and 506 in the air on 54 catches? Spiller averaged 4.8 yards per touch and had 1,118 yards (933 rushing on 202 carries and 185 receiving on 33 catches) and 2 TDs. Over the last 3 years (rushing & receiving): Player A: 631 touches for 3,651 yards (5.8 yards per touch) & 16 TDs Player B: 798 touches for 4,172 yards (5.2 yards per touch) & 22 TDs One of those players is Spiller and one is Reggie Bush. It's debatable as to which I would pick but they just aren't that different to me. Yup. Honestly I think you slightly overstate how well SP used bush and think he's a big part of the reason guys don't think of him as a good rusher. Certainly he came up with cool play designs but sometimes I think he shoehorns guys so strongly into roles that it creates predictability and incomplete players that struggle to get into the flow of games. Obviously not all the time as he is a very good offensive mind but I think his playcalling is streaky. In the case of bush I think he was so worried about creating space and misdirection that despite coming up with cool packages he neglected that Reggie could carry 200 times and "bring the wood" like he did against Arizona. I think we both think highly of bush though and some others in the discussion think we aren't using the comparison as praise of spiller. I know I am and I'm pretty sure you mean it as a good thing too. Edited April 5, 2014 by NoSaint
Kirby Jackson Posted April 5, 2014 Posted April 5, 2014 (edited) Yup. Honestly I think you slightly overstate how well SP used bush and think he's a big part of the reason guys don't think of him as a good rusher. Certainly he came up with cool play designs but sometimes I think he shoehorns guys so strongly into roles that it creates predictability and incomplete players that struggle to get into the flow of games. Obviously not all the time as he is a very good offensive mind but I think his playcalling is streaky. In the case of bush I think he was so worried about creating space and misdirection that despite coming up with cool packages he neglected that Reggie could carry 200 times and "bring the wood" like he did against Arizona. I think we both think highly of bush though and some others in the discussion think we aren't using the comparison as praise of spiller. I know I am and I'm pretty sure you mean it as a good thing too. I certainly mean it as praise. I think that they both fall between Jamal Charles and Chris Johnson (closer to Charles). They have unique skill sets that very few have -the ability to score from anywhere on the field. I am a big fan of Spiller and think that he is our most dynamic weapon. With that being said I try to look at the big picture and if he isn't going to be back here than I would prefer to get value. If my option is sign Chris Johnson and trade up for Clowney vs. keep Spiller and draft Ebron, I pick the former. Edited April 5, 2014 by Kirby Jackson
TheFunPolice Posted April 5, 2014 Posted April 5, 2014 if they can sign him do a fairly low-key contract as a FA then why not? You can never have too many weapons at RB. History says that Spiller and/or Freddy WILL get hurt, so he will play plenty.
mrags Posted April 5, 2014 Posted April 5, 2014 People can moan and groan about the Bills scheme all they want. Fact is its a power scheme just like the one they use in San Fran and Seattle. The two best teams in the league. Who won the Superbowl last year? The team that punches you in the face with two or three running plays and a half dozen pass plays that they execute to perfection or the team with the 100,000 page playbook with 1500 variations on the five wide set. The Bills are building the type of team needed to compete against Seattle and San Fran. Unfortunately Spiller's running style doesnt fit this team. Best thing to do is trade him and draft a power back. Carlos Hyde would be my choice. Old school smash mouth football still lives. WOW!!! I knew nothing about this kid but after watching highlights in a HUGE FAN!!! This kid can do it all. He's a monster of a runner but has soft hands, really good vision for finding openings, and the power to make a hole when it's not there. The 2 plays at the end of one of the highlight videos I watched were runs of over 50 yards against Illinois and they were a thing of beauty. What round is this kid projected in?
Kirby Jackson Posted April 5, 2014 Posted April 5, 2014 WOW!!! I knew nothing about this kid but after watching highlights in a HUGE FAN!!! This kid can do it all. He's a monster of a runner but has soft hands, really good vision for finding openings, and the power to make a hole when it's not there. The 2 plays at the end of one of the highlight videos I watched were runs of over 50 yards against Illinois and they were a thing of beauty. What round is this kid projected in? I am not objective as an OSU fan but I think that he is a rich man's Eddie Lacy. He will most likely be the first RB drafted in the late 1st or early 2nd. He is a complete back though and will be good at the next level.
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 5, 2014 Posted April 5, 2014 I am still struggling with this. Reggie had 1,512 yards rushing and receiving last year and 7 TDs. He averaged 5.5 yards per touch. If Spiller had that same year wouldn't we be thrilled? 1,006 on the ground with 223 carries and 506 in the air on 54 catches? Spiller averaged 4.8 yards per touch and had 1,118 yards (933 rushing on 202 carries and 185 receiving on 33 catches) and 2 TDs. Over the last 3 years (rushing & receiving): Player A: 631 touches for 3,651 yards (5.8 yards per touch) & 16 TDs Player B: 798 touches for 4,172 yards (5.2 yards per touch) & 22 TDs One of those players is Spiller and one is Reggie Bush. It's debatable as to which I would pick but they just aren't that different to me. Reggie Bush has played with Drew Brees & Calvin Johnson. Spiller has played with Ryan Fitzpatrick. Bush was never the #1 option for defenses to stop. You're good poster & I enjoy the debate. But you're severely underestimating the defenses Spiller & Bush face. The #1 thing teams playing the Bills want to take away is the running game. You dare them to beat you with the pass. That's 8 & 9 man fronts. You will get destroy if you do that with Brees & Johnson. Major, major advantage for a running back. And Spiller still has a 5.1 career average. Spiller is a better pure rb than Bush & I don't think it's really close.
Kirby Jackson Posted April 5, 2014 Posted April 5, 2014 Reggie Bush has played with Drew Brees & Calvin Johnson. Spiller has played with Ryan Fitzpatrick. Bush was never the #1 option for defenses to stop. You're good poster & I enjoy the debate. But you're severely underestimating the defenses Spiller & Bush face. The #1 thing teams playing the Bills want to take away is the running game. You dare them to beat you with the pass. That's 8 & 9 man fronts. You will get destroy if you do that with Brees & Johnson. Major, major advantage for a running back. And Spiller still has a 5.1 career average. Spiller is a better pure rb than Bush & I don't think it's really close. Its fine we aren't going to agree on everything. Of the 2 players listed (without looking) which do you prefer? I am a little indifferent. I think that either one would help your team in the same manner. I think Spiller is the better runner but not necessarily the better back.
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