Kirby Jackson Posted April 9, 2014 Posted April 9, 2014 OC I tend to agree with your philosophy about the games evolution. It is about getting the ball to playmakers (think Percy Harvin) in space and physical mismatches in the redzone (think Alshon Jeffrey).
smapdi Posted April 9, 2014 Posted April 9, 2014 OC I tend to agree with your philosophy about the games evolution. It is about getting the ball to playmakers (think Percy Harvin) in space and physical mismatches in the redzone (think Alshon Jeffrey). Love you bring up Percy Harvin because that is the type of role Spiller is best suited for. Get him the ball in space & let him use his elite athleticism to absolutely destroy defenders in space I think a lot of posters are basing their opinions on Spiller against what they think the "classic" NFL RB is. Spiller is never going to be a 300 carry workhouse & that isn't why they drafted him. They drafted him in the top 10 because of his uncanny ability to score a TD any time he touches the ball. His 52 TDs at Clemson are the reason he went top 10. Spillers sweet spot, IMHO, is right around 200-220 carries (12-15 a game) & 60-70 receptions (4-5 per game). If they can get the line sorted out and Manuel can be consistent, he should be in 1800-2000 (1100-1200 rushing/ 700-800 receiving) yards from scrimmage area. The majority of those catches should be in the screen game- easy, low risk pass for Manuel & gets Spiller the back in space. With him being back to 100% health, improving the passing attack is critical. You can't be one-dimensional & expect to have a good offense. That is why I want a big 3 OT in 1st. Matthews & Lewan excel blocking in the 2nd level- integral to running screens. If a player as dynamic as CJ Spiller doesn't "fit" in your offense, you need to throw your playbook in the garbage. I also think we should look at a RB later on in case of injuries to FJax or Spiller. Fred isn't getting any younger..
mrags Posted April 9, 2014 Posted April 9, 2014 If Spiller was SO good there wouldn't be this debate. We are the biggest and best fans that the Bills have. All of us are wishing this #9 selection of an NFL draft would win us football games. Some of us want to pretend that he has. Others see a player who can't block, fumbles, makes stupid mistakes, and is stopped at scrimmage more often than not. Spiller can be chalked up to another member of a list of players such as Gilmore, McKelvin, and Whitner. These guys do have some talent, but if you use your best resources on players such as this you will surely lose. The Bills could really use a better all around back than Spiller. I also doubt if CJ is looking at much longevity. It's a shame that his trade value is all but worthless. preaching to the choir with me brother. I think he's good, but I don't think he's a "special talent" like many here do. He's nothing special. Maybe if he could stay healthy more. Maybe of he could last more than 200 touches a season. Maybe if he could outright win the starting job at least once. But the fact is, he's never done any of these things. -always injured or nicked up -always struggling to out up 200 touches -never outright won the starting job over an aging bet who has had injury issues himself
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 9, 2014 Posted April 9, 2014 Touches for running backs comes in different ways. Smart offensive coaches get playmakers like Spiller touches in space through catches because you don't take the pounding and get mismatches. He's so underrated here. There's a tiny part of me who would love to see what he could do in NO. He is a bigger and better version of Sproles (Spiller isn't as good of a receiver). Unfortunately, he plays a position where you don't get much love. Momma don't let your kids to grow up to be rbs.
Bill from NYC Posted April 9, 2014 Posted April 9, 2014 Bill, I just gotta say, these are the posts that get people crushed....later...when CJ suddenly, albeit randomly, dominates in week 3, or whatever, by ripping off 200 yards...and makes you wish you never posted this. Of course this may never happen, but, the point is that it just as easily could happen, and a 25% chance upside completely destroys a 75% chance downside. You take the 25% all day, because you will be getting 10/1 if you win. The difference between Spiller, the rest of the players you listed....and the players I know you want to draft? The former can win a game, all by themselves. The can take over a game, all of sudden, and with little warning(I wouldn't put Whitner on this list). An Offensive line doesn't do this, and hasn't done this for quite some time because: today, moving the ball forward means moving the ball away from the line ASAP, not through it, or behind it. The game has moved from the inside to the outside, and from power to speed. The last O line I know of that could actually win games by themselves, take them over, and dominate, was the Raiders O line in the late 70s/early 80s. They were masters of protecting and moving the ball. But, that's not today's game. Today's game is going to be won and lost by a series of split seconds, on the outside or at the LOS, by a WR/RB or by a CB/LB/S. If you don't have the people, on both sides of the ball, who win more than they lose in that split second, it really doesn't matter what else is happening. Meanwhile, on D, Marrone himself said the following here: http://www.buffalobi...86-e0f72cd79877 Eat it! That is sound defensive coaching in every sport on the planet. Hockey/Lacrosse/Soccer starts with the goalie. Basketball starts with the C. Rugby starts with the Fullback. Every pro team in every sport builds their defense from the back to the front, because over 100s of years, that is what works. It doesn't matter who is in front, or what else you are trying to do, if your back is weak. Ask anybody who plays any sport, they will tell you the same thing: it always starts with the back end of the D. This is reality, and the myth, is what "people like to say". If the above is true, why haven't the Bills been winning? They have spent the bulk of their top resources at DB and RB for a long, long time. As far as that quote from Marrone, wow!!! Could this explain what took him so long to be a head coach, let alone his record?
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 9, 2014 Posted April 9, 2014 If the above is true, why haven't the Bills been winning? They have spent the bulk of their top resources at DB and RB for a long, long time. As far as that quote from Marrone, wow!!! Could this explain what took him so long to be a head coach, let alone his record? How come they didn't win when they had the great Jason Peters (and why did the Eagles lose to the Bills with the great Peters)? You don't think Spiller wouldn't be a superstar playing next to Brees, Rodgers, Manning, Brady instead of Ryan Fitzpatrick, where teams load up the box because he struggles to throw 10 yards downfield? I don't know why you are getting on a very good rb. The list of guys who average 6 ypc and gain over 1,200 yards is very small. He played through a high ankle sprain all last year. He's a good guy off the field, yet in your eyes, he's the problem with the Bills. you're misguided here.
Mr. WEO Posted April 9, 2014 Posted April 9, 2014 . Of course this may never happen, but, the point is that it just as easily could happen, and a 25% chance upside completely destroys a 75% chance downside. You take the 25% all day, because you will be getting 10/1 if you win. This is awesome....
BuffaloRebound Posted April 9, 2014 Posted April 9, 2014 Spiller is an excellent RB, but doesn't fit with Marrone's style. He's a better fit in a more pass-happy spread offense. Doubt he re-signs here next year. Best for both sides if you trade him now.
Mr. WEO Posted April 9, 2014 Posted April 9, 2014 Spiller is an excellent RB, but doesn't fit with Marrone's style. He's a better fit in a more pass-happy spread offense. Doubt he re-signs here next year. Best for both sides if you trade him now. Waht is "Marrone's style", anyway?
BuffaloRebound Posted April 9, 2014 Posted April 9, 2014 Waht is "Marrone's style", anyway? Run on 1st down, Run on 2nd down, Pass on 3rd down, Punt
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 9, 2014 Posted April 9, 2014 Spiller is an excellent RB, but doesn't fit with Marrone's style. He's a better fit in a more pass-happy spread offense. Doubt he re-signs here next year. Best for both sides if you trade him now. Will I hope this is not true because it's stupid. You make good players fit. Stubborn coaches don't last long. The offensive coaches should be forced to watch every play Spiller had in 2012 and figure out how ot use him proper. If the Bills ever trade Spiller, it will be one of the worst trades in franchise history. Rbs will get very little return because of the position. And Spiller will explode on the right team, watch. And unlike Lynch, Spiller won't be getting traded because he is a moron. Run on 1st down, Run on 2nd down, Pass on 3rd down, Punt Haha. Unfortunately, that was true a lot of the time. In way, it is how the 49ers do things but they don't have a back like Spiller.
Canadian Bills Fan Posted April 9, 2014 Posted April 9, 2014 Waht is "Marrone's style", anyway? Eddie Lacy type I bet CBF
YoloinOhio Posted April 9, 2014 Posted April 9, 2014 Eddie Lacy type I bet CBF Yes. Carlos Hyde fits that mold.
Canadian Bills Fan Posted April 9, 2014 Posted April 9, 2014 Yes. Carlos Hyde fits that mold. Agreed CBF
Beerball Posted April 9, 2014 Posted April 9, 2014 Well I guess im glad you guys don't run the Bills... we would give talented players up, and never make the playoffs. Ummmmmm............
BUFFALOTONE Posted April 9, 2014 Posted April 9, 2014 Reggie Bush has played with Drew Brees & Calvin Johnson. Spiller has played with Ryan Fitzpatrick. Bush was never the #1 option for defenses to stop. You're good poster & I enjoy the debate. But you're severely underestimating the defenses Spiller & Bush face. The #1 thing teams playing the Bills want to take away is the running game. You dare them to beat you with the pass. That's 8 & 9 man fronts. You will get destroy if you do that with Brees & Johnson. Major, major advantage for a running back. And Spiller still has a 5.1 career average. Spiller is a better pure rb than Bush & I don't think it's really close. Who has AP played with???
Beerball Posted April 9, 2014 Posted April 9, 2014 Chris Johnson's contract will set a mark for Spiller, I believe. They are similar type of runners, but Johnson has been more durable. Chris Johnson's got two years and lots of carries on Spiller. They are nothing like each other IMO. Spiller hasn't come close to Johnson's prior success. Johnson is on the downside of his career due to the heavy workload he had earlier in his career. His current worth is nowhere near what it was 2-3 years ago. Spiller is a nice situational player. Love you bring up Percy Harvin because that is the type of role Spiller is best suited for. Get him the ball in space & let him use his elite athleticism to absolutely destroy defenders in space Percy Harvin can play all over the field and has been very effective when healthy. Spiller can play RB. He has not shown the ability to run good routes or adjust well to balls thrown downfield.
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 9, 2014 Posted April 9, 2014 (edited) Who has AP played with??? Um, Hall of Fame QB Brett Farve. And AP is a once in a generation running back who the Vikes have been wasting. Spiller isn't AP but he's pretty damn good. Eddie Lacy type I bet CBF So instead of having a guy who averages 4.6 ypc with a bum ankle, we can have one who averages 4.1. There are a million Lacys (and I like him). FJax can play that role here. But guys like Spiller are much rarer. Edited April 9, 2014 by C.Biscuit97
FireChan Posted April 9, 2014 Posted April 9, 2014 (edited) Um, Hall of Fame QB Brett Farve. And AP is a once in a generation running back who the Vikes have been wasting. Spiller isn't AP but he's pretty damn good. So instead of having a guy who averages 4.6 ypc with a bum ankle, we can have one who averages 4.1. There are a million Lacys (and I like him). FJax can play that role here. But guys like Spiller are much rarer. Guys like Spiller don't have long productive careers in the NFL. Spiller twists an ankle, and his ability is gone. Eddie Lacy twists an ankle and he can still be effective. Once Spiller hits 29, he'll be CJ2YPC 2.0. He's a stupid signing, more fit for Madden than real life. Edited April 9, 2014 by FireChan
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