Schefter: Bills tried acquiring Chris Johnson

[smapdi]

So were hanging the performance of a rookie, a UDFA rookie, and Thad on spiller now?

 

That's part of the reason he had an off year. Teams knew they weren't going to get beat in the passing game so they loaded up on the run. The Bills were horrendous passing the ball last season.

 

Another part was his injuries. He depends on his ability to cut and agility & knee/ankle sprains are not good for that type of back.

 

And then finally you have atrocious line play.

 

I'm not giving Spiller a free pass but to solely blame him for his down season is unfair.

[FireChan]

i understand - i just think you are underestimating how good of a season that is. at just 15 touches a game it would be approximately 7th in the league among running backs in production. behind Mccoy (366 touches), charles (329), forte (363), moreno (301), lynch (337) and bush (277).... It would be, not to return to the bush vs spiller debate, but very similar to reggie bush numbers, or demarco murray is right in that same area.

 

if you got him to 18 touches per game, and he was able to stay healthy and at those averages hed be behind only mccoy charles and forte, but with just 288 touches.

 

if they dont intend to keep him - so be it - get some value. i just think a lot of people dont have a solid perspective on just how productive he could be and he doesnt have a lot of mileage so you might see him last through a 3 year extension. while you might find a good back in the 4th round, i dont think you pencil him in for that kind of production as a given.

 

You do realize that extrapolating numbers like that doesn't work right? I could just see it now, "Spiller averaged 6.0 YPC that one year, we should have just ran him 100 times, that's like 600 yards a game!"

 

How is that twisting facts?

 

Go look for yourself: RB's with a minimum of 200 carries who have 6.0 ypc are a very small group. I only went back 5 years. And 200 attempts is 13 carries a game.

 

And 30 attempts a game is 480 carries. Not even close to reality. Thank you, try again

 

Why limit it at 200 for the minimum? Why not do 220? Or 250? Is it cause Spiller never ran that much? Tell you what, look at RB's with a minimum of 205 carries who got 6.0 YPC. I bet the list just got a little shorter.

 

30 may have been an exaggeration, but AP has broken 300 carries a year 3 times. He had 348 carries in 2012. He ran the football 140 times more than Spiller did! That's running the ball almost 10 more times a game! And, get this, he had almost double the amount of first downs and double the amount of TD's. AP would have probably broken 300 again this year but he only played 14 games.

 

Onto Jamaal. Ran the ball 57 more times than Spills this year. But also caught 37 more passes than Spiller. Charles had 19 TD's this year.! NINETEEN!

 

Listen, I get you wanna lump CJ in with those guys, but seriously, he isn't even close.

Edited April 8, 2014 by FireChan

[NoSaint]

 

 

You do realize that extrapolating numbers like that doesn't work right? I could just see it now, "Spiller averaged 6.0 YPC that one year, we should have just ran him 100 times, that's like 600 yards a game!"

 

 

Lucky he had about 250 touches 2 of the 3 years I was working off of.... Using 250 as a baseline projection and then also stretching that to 280 really was insanity, I know.

Edited April 8, 2014 by NoSaint

[FireChan]

Lucky he had about 250 touches 2 of the 3 years I was working off of.... Using 250 as a baseline projection and then also stretching that to 280 really was insanity, I know.

 

When did Spiller ever run the ball 250 times?

[smapdi]

You do realize that extrapolating numbers like that doesn't work right? I could just see it now, "Spiller averaged 6.0 YPC that one year, we should have just ran him 100 times, that's like 600 yards a game!"

 

 

 

Why limit it at 200 for the minimum? Why not do 220? Or 250? Is it cause Spiller never ran that much? Tell you what, look at RB's with a minimum of 205 carries who got 6.0 YPC. I bet the list just got a little shorter.

 

30 may have been an exaggeration, but AP has broken 300 carries a year 3 times. He had 348 carries in 2012. He ran the football 140 times more than Spiller did! That's running the ball almost 10 more times a game! And, get this, he had almost double the amount of first downs and double the amount of TD's. AP would have probably broken 300 again this year but he only played 14 games.

 

Onto Jamaal. Ran the ball 57 more times than Spills this year. But also caught 37 more passes than Spiller. Charles had 19 TD's this year.! NINETEEN!

 

Listen, I get you wanna lump CJ in with those guys, but seriously, he isn't even close.

 

AP is a beast and on his own level & a totally different back then Spiller

 

Charles is a much better comparison to what Spiller could be. He should be catching 60-70 passes a season.

 

I'm cutting it off at 200 because that is a significant amount of carries. Over 10 a game. It just wasnt a couple of long runs on 80 carries.

Edited April 8, 2014 by smapdi

[mrags]

 

 

So were hanging the performance of a rookie, a UDFA rookie, and Thad on spiller now?

no. I was simply stating an argument that K9 brought forward. That CJ is so good that he relieves much of the offense because of the pressure he puts on defenses.

 

It's a rebuttal based on his argument.

[NoSaint]

 

 

When did Spiller ever run the ball 250 times?

 

Touches- not carries. I was also talking yards from scrimmage not rushing yards. You know, since I was talking to someone that thought he should get about a dozen rushes and a handful of catches.

 

The last two years he had a little over 200 rushes per season and 235 and 250 touches respectively

Edited April 8, 2014 by NoSaint

[3rdand12]

I really think we are looking at a heavy lifting RB in this draft.....Carlos Hyde?

 

You know how you fix lack of awareness for a RB? GET BETTER BLOCKERS

This IS part of the Bills equation to success : )

[mrags]

 

 

You do realize that extrapolating numbers like that doesn't work right? I could just see it now, "Spiller averaged 6.0 YPC that one year, we should have just ran him 100 times, that's like 600 yards a game!"

 

 

 

Why limit it at 200 for the minimum? Why not do 220? Or 250? Is it cause Spiller never ran that much? Tell you what, look at RB's with a minimum of 205 carries who got 6.0 YPC. I bet the list just got a little shorter.

 

30 may have been an exaggeration, but AP has broken 300 carries a year 3 times. He had 348 carries in 2012. He ran the football 140 times more than Spiller did! That's running the ball almost 10 more times a game! And, get this, he had almost double the amount of first downs and double the amount of TD's. AP would have probably broken 300 again this year but he only played 14 games.

 

Onto Jamaal. Ran the ball 57 more times than Spills this year. But also caught 37 more passes than Spiller. Charles had 19 TD's this year.! NINETEEN!

 

Listen, I get you wanna lump CJ in with those guys, but seriously, he isn't even close.

great argument.

[3rdand12]

That's part of the reason he had an off year. Teams knew they weren't going to get beat in the passing game so they loaded up on the run. The Bills were horrendous passing the ball last season.

 

Another part was his injuries. He depends on his ability to cut and agility & knee/ankle sprains are not good for that type of back.

 

And then finally you have atrocious line play.

 

I'm not giving Spiller a free pass but to solely blame him for his down season is unfair.

I can agree with all the above. all of it . well said Edited April 8, 2014 by 3rdand12

[NoSaint]

 

Why limit it at 200 for the minimum? Why not do 220? Or 250? Is it cause Spiller never ran that much? Tell you what, look at RB's with a minimum of 205 carries who got 6.0 YPC. I bet the list just got a little shorter.

 

Funny enough, he had 207 that year. Doesn't change your point, but given your ranting it made my chuckle still

[K-9]

unfortunately, the performances of our QBs last year prove you wrong about the pressure CJ puts in defenses.

 

Um, the performance of our QBs was THE reason CJ couldn't exploit defenses even more. Throw in a high ankle sprain that he battled for 3/4 of the year and his 900+ and 4.6 ypc is even more amazing. He got little to NO help from our passing game all year. Easily replaced with any old 4th or 5th round RB? That's laughable to me. Elite backs are found early in round one and Spiller is no exception.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[NoSaint]

For perspective on how good Spillers 2012 was, if stretched an extra 100 carries (307), with no yardage accumulated, he still would've been over 4ypc

[K-9]

no. I was simply stating an argument that K9 brought forward. That CJ is so good that he relieves much of the offense because of the pressure he puts on defenses.

 

It's a rebuttal based on his argument.

 

You miss my point, entirely. Spiller's elite speed puts pressure on the most vulnerable part of a defense; the corners. And his demonstrated success in that area FORCES defenses to adjust for that. He has gotten next to ZILCH in the form a ANY viable passing attack that would force defenses to devote resources to other areas when he's on the field. He gets keyed more than any other player on our roster and by a mile, too.

 

Look, I don't really want to get into a pissing match about Spiller. If you think he is readily replaced by any old 4th or 5th round RB, so be it. I think that's as wrong as can be.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[FireChan]

You miss my point, entirely. Spiller's elite speed puts pressure on the most vulnerable part of a defense; the corners. And his demonstrated success in that area FORCES defenses to adjust for that. He has gotten next to ZILCH in the form a ANY viable passing attack that would force defenses to devote resources to other areas when he's on the field. He gets keyed more than any other player on our roster and by a mile, too.

 

Look, I don't really want to get into a pissing match about Spiller. If you think he is readily replaced by any old 4th or 5th round RB, so be it. I think that's as wrong as can be.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

Two words. Andre Ellington. Spiller 2.0 out of the 6th round.

[Sumin]

Chris Johnson's contract will set a mark for Spiller, I believe. They are similar type of runners, but Johnson has been more durable.

 

If Johnson doesn't receive the contract he wants and has to settle for less, that'll prove to be very indicative for Spiller to what he may receive next year. If Johnson gets a big pay day, then Spiller will perceive his worth as about equal to Johnson.

 

I'm actually surprised at how few teams have reportedly had serious interest in Johnson. We're talking about a top 10 if not top 5 RB year in and out who is durable and still is an electrifying threat. We shall see, but so far, this signs have been showing me that teams aren't investing much in the position in FA and prefer to keep their own up and coming players.

 

Guys like McFadden, Jones Drew, and Tate received contracts that were relatively cheap

 

 

[Bill from NYC]

no. I was simply stating an argument that K9 brought forward. That CJ is so good that he relieves much of the offense because of the pressure he puts on defenses.

 

It's a rebuttal based on his argument.

 

If Spiller was SO good there wouldn't be this debate.

We are the biggest and best fans that the Bills have. All of us are wishing this #9 selection of an NFL draft would win us football games. Some of us want to pretend that he has. Others see a player who can't block, fumbles, makes stupid mistakes, and is stopped at scrimmage more often than not.

 

Spiller can be chalked up to another member of a list of players such as Gilmore, McKelvin, and Whitner. These guys do have some talent, but if you use your best resources on players such as this you will surely lose.

 

The Bills could really use a better all around back than Spiller. I also doubt if CJ is looking at much longevity.

 

It's a shame that his trade value is all but worthless.

[K-9]

Two words. Andre Ellington. Spiller 2.0 out of the 6th round.

Two words. Andre Ellington. Spiller 2.0 out of the 6th round.

 

He doesn't possess the elite kind of explosion that Spiller does. If he demonstrated that kind of world class speed and homerun ability in college like Spiller did, he would have gone higher in the draft. Before we go pronouncing a 6th round pick being as good, how about we wait to see how their careers play out. As it is, Ellington has a bit of catching up to do at the moment.

 

And as I mentioned to mrags, if you need to feel that just any later round draft pick can bring what Spiller brings, so be it. Nobody I know agrees.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[snamsnoops]

WORD!!!

 

Skycap has it pegged.

Who cares whose contract is up, whose old and is a nice f'in guy or who signed with the Bills in free agency. It doesn't matter.

If the opportunity is there to upgrade your team with a pro bowl talent, you do it! Is he better than Fred? Hell yes everyday. Will Freds feelings be hurt? Who the F cares? This management and coaching group want to win and win now. They don't give a rats a$$ who gets shoved off the bus or into a retirement home. Winning is all that matters and every fan of this team should see that right now!!

FJ is far better all around RB. I shouldn't need to explain this.

[OCinBuffalo]

If Spiller was SO good there wouldn't be this debate.

We are the biggest and best fans that the Bills have. All of us are wishing this #9 selection of an NFL draft would win us football games. Some of us want to pretend that he has. Others see a player who can't block, fumbles, makes stupid mistakes, and is stopped at scrimmage more often than not.

 

Spiller can be chalked up to another member of a list of players such as Gilmore, McKelvin, and Whitner. These guys do have some talent, but if you use your best resources on players such as this you will surely lose.

 

The Bills could really use a better all around back than Spiller. I also doubt if CJ is looking at much longevity.

 

It's a shame that his trade value is all but worthless.

Bill, I just gotta say, these are the posts that get people crushed....later...when CJ suddenly, albeit randomly, dominates in week 3, or whatever, by ripping off 200 yards...and makes you wish you never posted this. Of course this may never happen, but, the point is that it just as easily could happen, and a 25% chance upside completely destroys a 75% chance downside. You take the 25% all day, because you will be getting 10/1 if you win.

 

The difference between Spiller, the rest of the players you listed....and the players I know you want to draft?

 

The former can win a game, all by themselves. The can take over a game, all of sudden, and with little warning(I wouldn't put Whitner on this list).

 

An Offensive line doesn't do this, and hasn't done this for quite some time because: today, moving the ball forward means moving the ball away from the line ASAP, not through it, or behind it. The game has moved from the inside to the outside, and from power to speed. The last O line I know of that could actually win games by themselves, take them over, and dominate, was the Raiders O line in the late 70s/early 80s. They were masters of protecting and moving the ball.

 

But, that's not today's game. Today's game is going to be won and lost by a series of split seconds, on the outside or at the LOS, by a WR/RB or by a CB/LB/S. If you don't have the people, on both sides of the ball, who win more than they lose in that split second, it really doesn't matter what else is happening.

 

Meanwhile, on D, Marrone himself said the following here: http://www.buffalobi...86-e0f72cd79877

"Yeah, I think the defensive backs played extremely well. People like to say it starts up front, but really you start in the back end."

Eat it!

 

That is sound defensive coaching in every sport on the planet. Hockey/Lacrosse/Soccer starts with the goalie. Basketball starts with the C. Rugby starts with the Fullback. Every pro team in every sport builds their defense from the back to the front, because over 100s of years, that is what works. It doesn't matter who is in front, or what else you are trying to do, if your back is weak. Ask anybody who plays any sport, they will tell you the same thing: it always starts with the back end of the D.

 

This is reality, and the myth, is what "people like to say".

Edited April 9, 2014 by OCinBuffalo