SACTOBILLSFAN Posted April 4, 2014 Posted April 4, 2014 Do we have a lawyer here? I'm not so sure about this. If he's a lawyer he ends quite a few sentences in prepositions. Better call Saul!
Beerball Posted April 4, 2014 Posted April 4, 2014 Connect the dots. my dots are different from your dots
sodbuster Posted April 4, 2014 Posted April 4, 2014 my dots are different from your dots dots are one of my favorite candies.
mrags Posted April 4, 2014 Posted April 4, 2014 was that too rude to for the incredibly rude pessimistic bunch?
metzelaars_lives Posted April 4, 2014 Posted April 4, 2014 I know that I can easily just ignore the posts, or not read this thread altogether. But the "OMG the team is moving, how stupid are you that you do not see that" posts are really annoying. Nothing but negativity based on absolutely no fact or knowledge of the situation. If you really can't try and be positive at all about this team why do you even bother??? I'm sure there's other threads, teams, sites that will work for the pessimistic attitude that you seem to enjoy so much. Agreed 100%. The "you can void a binding contract with New York State and not have to worry about paying the $400 million and the league will approve the move no problem" posts are even more annoying.
PromoTheRobot Posted April 4, 2014 Posted April 4, 2014 Maybe we will find out the team was "sold" in pieces for years? We find out Mary lords over a few dozen minority owners? People who helped Ralph cash out the value of the Bills while he was alive? That scenario sounds so familiar....
51to3 Posted April 4, 2014 Posted April 4, 2014 I am a long, long time follower of this board; though rare participant. Recent events in the Bills world make this thread, for me, one of the most important in memory. That, and preceding comments, move me to contribute. I believe the announcement of a potentially accelerated Bills sale means one of two things; either the fix was in with Rogers all along regarding a move to Toronto or Jim Kelly wasn't blowing smoke when assuring us that measures were being taken by significant people to keep the Bills in Buffalo. I don't believe any other move option (i.e., L.A.) would materialize this quickly. Let me first provide some context. I was born and raised in Niagara so I know WNY very well. But I also know Toronto. Niagara is the Canadian equivalent of the Niagara Frontier for Buffalonians. Anything south of Hamilton is Niagara and is Bills country. Sure, there are all kinds of NFL fans in Niagara who support other teams. But Niagarans who declare as Bills fans demonstrate the same passion and historical loyalty to the franchise as Buffalonians. We watch every game religiously, attend as many as we can, feel sick after losses, wear the colours and pick up even the slightest mention of the Bills in any crowded room no matter where we are in the world. Regarding the Toronto fears, following is my line of reasoning: - T.O. is a big city that has now proven it can support major league sports e.g., MLB, NBA - Rogers has very deep pockets, can afford a team and a stadium, and has greatly impressed the NFL - Outside of the Leafs, Toronto will only support a winner through attendance; but don't be fooled, it can afford a non-winner - Actions are underway to move the Argonauts out of the Rogers Centre and to an open air stadium - Toronto, Canadians in general, and the Government of Canada have significantly relaxed their opinions about the co-existence of the CFL and the NFL in Toronto - It is my opinion that extensive discussions have taken place between Rogers and the NFL about putting a team in Toronto and I believe that it will come to pass sooner than later. This does not necessarily mean the Bills, but Ted Rogers would certainly have included that as one option when he agreed to the one-game-a-year deal with Ralph. - On a side note, in response to someone's earlier conjecture that Canadians of one region (Quebec) hate those in another (Toronto), you are wrong. There is serious regional rivalries, but don't think for a second that would prevent Montrealers who love the NFL from travelling to Toronto to watch a game. I've lived in Ottawa for many years now and am amazed how many rabid Bills fans there are in Montreal. They frequently fill buses and travel to Orchard Park for games. Regarding the Bills-will-remain-in-Buffalo line of thinking: - There are many declared advocates who hold important positions in the NFL, the city and region, state and business - Ralph not only never mentioned a Bills move in all his years, he constructed a lease agreement that survived him to make it particularly difficult - Jim Kelly, whenever challenged, spoke as directly as he could to the fact that there were multiple, serious businessmen interested in keeping the Bills in Buffalo - The new stadium research committee is comprised of some very impressive business and political leaders. These people have no interest in wasting their and everyone else's time With the speed of this thing, my gut tells me it is a WNY group that is stepping up to keep the Bills in Buffalo. Kelly was the go-between and events are now unfolding as planned.
purple haze Posted April 4, 2014 Posted April 4, 2014 (edited) Don't forget that Senator Schumer is not a man the NFL wants working against them, I can guarantee that...he wields a lot of power in the Senate LA has horrible and I mean horrible fan support. There is a reason why teams keep leaving there, regardless of market size... There are a lot of die-hard NFL fans in L.A. Just that many come from other states and stay loyal to their hometown teams. The fans from L.A. LOVE the Raiders. Others still love the Rams. The Raiders and Rams moved because they didn't have stadiums they found suitable and weren't able to get new ones approved. Which is the age old problem in L.A. and California in general (see Oakland and San Diego w/old stadiums that need replacing) with all the various stadium plans posited over the years. I moved out this way ten years ago. The Coliseum is a dump. Not because of the neighborhood. Because the stadium itself is 80 years old. The Rose Bowl is similar. They look good on TV. Not that great in person. Edited April 4, 2014 by purple haze
mrags Posted April 4, 2014 Posted April 4, 2014 (edited) Nice post 51to3. First post btw. Welcome to the madness that is TBD. At least the argumentative side of it. I don't know how you could wait in the shadows for all these years and not post something at anytime wanting to rip someone's face off. But you have done so and done so well to this point. FYI, I never said Canadian in Montreal weren't Bills fans. I simply stated there was a (I used the term hatred, probably a little harsh) difference between Southern Ontarian's and those from the heavily influenced "French Canadian" Montreal and the more norther cities. I'm not Canadian, but you can't deny some of what I say is true that the French Canadians have general disagreements with those more Southern. I meant it as kind of like how people in the southern US call anyone from up north a Yankee. Or when I loved in Vegas and everyone called me Canadian. There are a lot of die-hard NFL fans in L.A. Just that many come from other states and stay loyal to their hometown teams. The fans from L.A. LOVE the Raiders. Others still love the Rams. The Raiders and Rams moved because they didn't have stadiums they found suitable and weren't able to get new ones approved. Which is the age old problem in L.A. and California in general (see Oakland and San Diego w/old stadiums that need replacing) with all the various stadium plans posited over the years. I moved out this way ten years ago. The Coliseum is a dump. Not because of the neighborhood. Because the stadium itself is 80 years old. The Rose Bowl is similar. They look good on TV. Not that great in person. I've been to the Oakland Coliseum, San Francisco's Monster Park, and San Diego's Qualcomm Stadiums and I can vouch that all 3 were absolute crapholes. I couldn't believe how disgusting Oakland was to be honest. And even though San Diego is a nice weather area, the stadium looks more weathered than The Ralph. I can vouch that these teams all need new stadiums (San Fran is getting there's) much more than The Bills do. IMO, the best thing they could do with SD is build a stadium halfway between SD and LA and if they ever get another LA team, they can share the stadium just like the Jets and Giants. And if not, they can always change the name and call them the LA Chargers if they are feeling the need to move the team. Edited April 4, 2014 by mrags
Buftex Posted April 4, 2014 Posted April 4, 2014 (edited) Some great points made in this thread. I am inclined to believe the notion of a relatively quick sale is a good sign... but I realize there is a possibility (Toronto) we could be very disappointed. I just don't think so... That said, I absolutely love the idea of Pegula as the owner of the Bills. I have pointed out numerous times over the years (not that I would expect anyone to remember) in posts concerning the Bills future, that I was really struck by the boldness, and definitive terms that Jim Kelly has spoken with, in assuring everyone that the Bills aren't going anywhere. Some people here just wrote it off as Kelly being a big mouth, or an arrogant jerk, or whatever was in vogue with Kelly bashers at the time... as 51to3 points out as well. I never had the feeling that Kelly's swagger on the subject was coming out of wishful thinking, but instead, real knowledge that none of us were privy to. Don't know if anyone recalls, but a few years ago now, Thurman Thomas, on the subject of the Bills future, made some twitter noise as if he was a little kid, just dying to tell a secret. It seemed, at that time, that some sort of official announcement might be forthcoming....but it never happened. I also have a source at One Bills Drive who told me that a few years ago (can't remember now, I think it was the year they spent without an actual GM, when Marv stepped down) right before the Super Bowl that year, there was a "all hands" meeting at One Bills Drive, where it was explained that Jim Kelly would be "seen a lot around here" in the future...his role was undefined...some assumed he might be being groomed to be the Bills future GM, and part of eventual ownership. But it wasn't something they should all spend a lot of time speculating about amongst themselves, just to help him with anything he asked for help with. Again, an official announcement was rumored to be coming, during Super Bowl week, but it never happened. Kelly was unofficially hired by the team, in some un-named capacity, and it almost seemed like he was simply a team ambassador. Like the Sabres did for years, with Gilbert Perreault...essentially paying him to be Gilbert Perreault, show up at some events...collect a regular check. This was all before Terry Pegula was a known commodity to us. Sorry, my memory is hazy now (getting worse all the time), but I could swear that Kelly was known to have a very friendly relationship with Tom Golisano at that time. I am thinking, as many have said, something has been brewing for that long. But, while I hope Terry Pegula is our guy, a part of me won't be surprised if it ends up being Tom Golisano. TG has made a few comments over the years, while attempting to be tactful, acknowledging that he could very likely have interest in purchasing the Bills. Edited April 4, 2014 by Buftex
VanCity Posted April 4, 2014 Posted April 4, 2014 I am hearing reports of John Spano being the lead investor.....is that crickets I hear?.....
mrags Posted April 4, 2014 Posted April 4, 2014 (edited) Yeah Buftex, Galisano and Kelly were both questioned about it at one point and they both stated it was in bad taste because it essentially meant that people were calling for Ralph's demise without him actually passing. Both have said they would be interested in purchasing the team and/or doing everything possible to keep the Bills in Buffalo. Galisano even reached out to Ralph and requested to speak about purchasing the team (funny because all the info you remember was right around the time Galisano had put the Sabres up for sale) but said Ralph insisted the team would not be sold while he was alive and would go to his estate to be sold apon his death. Edited April 4, 2014 by mrags
yungmack Posted April 4, 2014 Posted April 4, 2014 LA has horrible and I mean horrible fan support. There is a reason why teams keep leaving there, regardless of market size... Can we stop with this canard already? LA was for many years the attendance leader in the NFL. Thia year, before the baseball season even began, the Dodgers had already sold 3 million tickets. Even when the team was dogs, attendance regularly hit that figure. USC, UCLA, Kings, Lakers and now even the Clippers draw extremely well. The Rams and Raiders left when they couldn't extort new stadiums or ransom from the taxpayers,, not because of a lack of fan interest. Before you go off pontificating, get your facts right.
ICanSleepWhenI'mDead Posted April 4, 2014 Posted April 4, 2014 I'd like to see the Bills stay in Buffalo, but this sequence of events worries me: 1. From 2006, before Ralph struck a deal for the "Bills-in-Toronto Series" (re-publishing a Toronto newspaper article that I could not find a direct link to): http://slumz.boxden.com/f16/toronto-seeks-nfl-team-752684/ Tanenbaum said if the NFL tells him it will award Toronto a team, his group is ready to plan a new stadium or retrofit the Rogers Centre to meet the league's needs. 2. From 11/24/13: http://www.theglobea...rticle15581107/ Bob Hunter, who was MLSE's chief facilities and live entertainment officer, was put in charge of two special projects. * * * * * * . . . the Toronto Argonauts of the CFL . . . would be most affected by Hunter's second project. And that task is to design an NFL-style stadium to accommodate the Bills. So far, we're told, there is a design for a stadium that would cost $600-million but our informants say that won't get much these days and the final number will be closer to $1-billion plus another $1-billion (U.S.) or so to buy the Bills, making this a $2-billion play. 3. Less than 10 days ago: http://www.wgrz.com/...oronto/6929179/ David Shoalts, a sports columnist with the Globe and Mail, said the wealthy and influential team of Larry Tanenbaum, Tim Leiweke, and Edward Rogers, is working behind the scenes to get a franchise. * * * * Leiweke heads up the new stadium efforts. "I believe he's got at least the outline of what they'd like to do with an NFL stadium," Shoalts said. Of course, a sketchy preliminary outline of stadium plans could be drawn up on a shoestring budget without any sort of encouragement from the NFL, and without any Rogers family member's commitment to help finance anything. But the sequence of events does make me wonder if Tanenbaum is trying to put info together and rally support for an eventual bid by Toronto people.
bbb Posted April 4, 2014 Posted April 4, 2014 I am a long, long time follower of this board; though rare participant. Recent events in the Bills world make this thread, for me, one of the most important in memory. IMO, it's the most important thing in Buffalo history.
mrags Posted April 4, 2014 Posted April 4, 2014 I'd like to see the Bills stay in Buffalo, but this sequence of events worries me: 1. From 2006, before Ralph struck a deal for the "Bills-in-Toronto Series" (re-publishing a Toronto newspaper article that I could not find a direct link to): http://slumz.boxden.com/f16/toronto-seeks-nfl-team-752684/ 2. From 11/24/13: http://www.theglobea...rticle15581107/ 3. Less than 10 days ago: http://www.wgrz.com/...oronto/6929179/ Of course, a sketchy preliminary outline of stadium plans could be drawn up on a shoestring budget without any sort of encouragement from the NFL, and without any Rogers family member's commitment to help finance anything. But the sequence of events does make me wonder if Tanenbaum is trying to put info together and rally support for an eventual bid by Toronto people. with all that being said, at this point right now... Wilson's wife owns the team and can choose to sell it to whoever she would like to. So if really doesn't matter what any Canadian buyers might want.
thewildrabbit Posted April 4, 2014 Posted April 4, 2014 Can we stop with this canard already? LA was for many years the attendance leader in the NFL. Thia year, before the baseball season even began, the Dodgers had already sold 3 million tickets. Even when the team was dogs, attendance regularly hit that figure. USC, UCLA, Kings, Lakers and now even the Clippers draw extremely well. The Rams and Raiders left when they couldn't extort new stadiums or ransom from the taxpayers,, not because of a lack of fan interest. Before you go off pontificating, get your facts right. Both teams were playing in older, outdated stadiums in LA, and got sweetheart deals on new stadiums from their new cities as I recall. The Rams had to share the Anaheim stadium with the Angels, and that stadium is really not suited for a football team. The Raiders moved into the 70+ year old LA Coliseum which holds 100k seats, and Al Davis was complaining that he couldn't sell the stadium out. Usually about 20k short every game. Plus, he wanted club seating, and skyboxes which the commission wouldn't supply. There is a reason as to why that city doesn't currently have an NFL team. Both those old stadiums are still there, and both suck. If the city or some entity ever decides to build a new state of the art football stadium, then they might just attract an NFL team. JMO Anyway, here is hoping the Bills stay in Buffalo
Wing Man Posted April 4, 2014 Posted April 4, 2014 The most likely candidates are a local group made up of Kelly, Pagula, Galisano, or a consolidation of these. However, if Mary Wilson has been presented with a premium deal, for example in the $1.2 - 1.5Billion range from Toronto, LA, or another city, she may leap at such an offer regardless of the ultimate destination of the team. Speculation about Donald Trump taking an ownership stake is far fetched. There are no guarantees but hopefully Mrs. Wilson is as dedicated to keeping the team in Buffalo as her late husband.
Recommended Posts