Can Bills Fans Own and Operate a New Stadium?

[NoSaint]

If third party construction/ownership was such a good idea someone would have done it by now somewhere in the NFL..

 

 

i will take on ALL of the risks, ALL of the financial responsibilities, and have NO assurances, and almost no plan B should the team leave, generally is a model that isnt enticing. even the team owners dont like doing it.

[Kellyto83TD]

Dear God find a new owner soon so we can end this stupidity

[bills1960]

Why only open this up to local Tax Payers, open this up to BILLS Nation, I’m sure there are many other devoted Bills fans that have moved out of WNY that are willing to be part of doing what it take to keep the BILLS where they belong, plus a small ROI which they can turn around and invest in season tickets or the NFL package for those of us who purchase it just so we can see our BILLS. (800,000 local, but maybe 8mil world wide?)

 

Exactly. Even as a college student I'd pitch in some funds for sure. They could do a program where you donate "X" amount and you get a seat with a name plate on it.

[Buftex]

Has anybody heard of the Bills Fan Alliance? :wallbash:

[CodeMonkey]

Has anybody heard of the Bills Fan Alliance? :wallbash:

Not even close to the same thing. BFA wants to buy the team (which the NFL doesn't even allow any more, so seems kinda pointless) while this discussion (misguided or not) is just about funding a new stadium with no team ownership.

 

EDIT: Oops I take back part of that. BFA doesn't want to own the team, they want to lend another group the money to buy the team. A subtle distinction but at least should be allowable under the NFL rules. Getting it past the other owners is another discussion.

 

http://www.buffalofanalliance.org/buffalofan/The_BFA_Plan.html

Edited April 2, 2014 by CodeMonkey

[BillnutinHouston]

 

Not even close to the same thing. BFA wants to buy the team (which the NFL doesn't even allow any more, so seems kinda pointless) while this discussion (misguided or not) is just about funding a new stadium with no team ownership.

 

EDIT: Oops I take back part of that. BFA doesn't want to own the team, they want to lend another group the money to buy the team. A subtle distinction but at least should be allowable under the NFL rules. Getting it past the other owners is another discussion.

 

http://www.buffalofanalliance.org/buffalofan/The_BFA_Plan.html

Here's my gripe with the BFA. I went to their website, took their survey, and then sent them an email with a question I had about sending a contribution. Two weeks later, still no reply. If they want to be open for business, be open for business.

[BringBackFergy]

Dear God find a new owner soon so we can end this stupidity

Tu-Toned had a valid question (Can a group of fans or a corporation own a chunk of real estate, build a $800 million dollar stadium and rent it to the Buffalo Bills over the course of 20, 30 or 40 years) and all you can contribute is the word "stupidity"?? Why not look and see how the Niners are paying $25 million/year to utilize their newly built home and you'll see how there is a market for leasing the stadium to the Bills without State and county beaurocratic bull **** getting in the way. At least he's thinking rather than pulling his pud and bellyaching.

[papazoid]

this is a complete waste of time.

 

the bills would never accept the rent you would need to charge and terms of who gets certain revenue etc... the taxpayers fund so much of this they don't even realize.

 

buy carry on and have fun fantacizing.

 

 

funny how no one from the private group Greater Buffalo Sports and Entertainment Complex, already with a stadium plan in hand wasn't invited to be one of 27 members of the bills new stadium working Advisory Committee.

 

that tells ya what the bills think of that.

[Buftex]

Not even close to the same thing. BFA wants to buy the team (which the NFL doesn't even allow any more, so seems kinda pointless) while this discussion (misguided or not) is just about funding a new stadium with no team ownership.

 

EDIT: Oops I take back part of that. BFA doesn't want to own the team, they want to lend another group the money to buy the team. A subtle distinction but at least should be allowable under the NFL rules. Getting it past the other owners is another discussion.

 

http://www.buffalofa...e_BFA_Plan.html

 

As I said somewhere today (all these threads are becoming a blur), there is a good chance that the Bills long-term future in Buffalo is going to be dependent on how committed the NFL is to keeping a team in Buffalo. I honestly think the BFA model is one that could work, if the NFL will allow it to.

[Best Player Available]

Plans like this, need people that are smart and good ambassadors. I'll find out Dennis Rodmans schedule and his interest in moving this forward.

Pulling 800 mil together should be a cakewalk.......

 

Plus, it will take pressure off the Donald and his need to finance the team purchase. Since the stadium will be in place.

[Tu-Toned]

Tu-Toned had a valid question (Can a group of fans or a corporation own a chunk of real estate, build a $800 million dollar stadium and rent it to the Buffalo Bills over the course of 20, 30 or 40 years) and all you can contribute is the word "stupidity"?? Why not look and see how the Niners are paying $25 million/year to utilize their newly built home and you'll see how there is a market for leasing the stadium to the Bills without State and county beaurocratic bull **** getting in the way. At least he's thinking rather than pulling his pud and bellyaching.

Wow, thanks for the support! I have certainly heard of and applaud organizations like the BFA,

and any organization that works to keep the Bills in Buffalo. If something like this, or even better,

another plan possibly designed to keep them in Buffalo longer than just a new stadium would be proposed,

I would be thrilled with that as well. Supportive too! Like you implied, I was genuinely curious because I knew that

fans could not buy the team but was not sure if this might be possible.

 

From the responses I see, I guess the general consensus is possible, yes, easy, no! I really

was not thinking about all of the potential involving the surrounding infrastructure, culture,

dining, etc..that comes with the destination type stadiums of today. When you consider that,

and the potential revenue associated with an operation of a facility like a modern NFL stadium,

I think that it would be foolish to not consider it.

 

Btw: I do occasionally pull on my pud & bellyach!

Edited April 3, 2014 by Tu-Toned

[Dean Cain]

$800,000,000 / 200,000 people = $4000/person. I'm in....but I call I get seats at the 50, 20 rows up. As part owner, I want a good deal and DON'T put me next to Beerball. (actually, this is a cool concept. Be interested to see what others with a background in financing and NFL rules have to say about it).

 

$800,000,000 / 542,624 Facebook fans = $1,474 per person. Crowdsource the funding of the new stadium. I dig it.

 

The money could be held in escrow, and used to mint a bond equivalent digital currency aka Bills Coin, that the team could issue that would be redeemable fractionally over a 25 year period. Assume the Bills would pay back the currency at 2.5% interest over 25 years. Bills Coin would be redeemable at BuffaloBills.com, or at the stadium box office, to buy everything from tickets, to jerseys, or concessions.

Edited April 3, 2014 by Dean Cain

[BringBackFergy]

 

 

$800,000,000 / 542,624 Facebook fans = $1,474 per person. Crowdsource the funding of the new stadium. I dig it.

 

The money could be held in escrow, and used to mint a bond equivalent digital currency aka Bills Coin, that the team could issue that would be redeemable fractionally over a 25 year period. Assume the Bills would pay back the currency at 2.5% interest over 25 years. Bills Coin would be redeemable at BuffaloBills.com, or at the stadium box office, to buy everything from tickets, to jerseys, or concessions.

Very cool.

[dollars 2 donuts]

 

 

I don't know if I could get you 200,000 people, but I could find 55,000 who would put up $10,000 for a transferable PSL--especially if you offered the option to pay over four years. I'd buy one right now. There's $550,000,000--over half the cost. Throw in 100 suite owners at $500,000 each--there's another $50,000,000. You're going to derive revenue annually from the team/teams, and if it is designed right, you can have conference space and retail space (think Patriots* Place) that generates revenue. Some state and federal economic development money, and a few deep-pocketed investors and you're there. NO taxpayer funding at all. I'd put it in Niagara Falls to keep our Rochester and Toronto fans happy. Suite owners and major investors share revenues from concessions, events. PSL owners have the appreciating value of the PSL and the fun of attending Bills games.

 

Man, that's good. Revitalizes the Falls, too. That settles it...I am moving back to NYS and running for governor.

 

Oh yeah, and we cut a deal that requires the county and the taxpayers to contribute for maintenance and upkeep on a sliding scale based on revenue generated and economic development created by the facility.

 

 

 

I like the direction TT was going in as he started this thread and I like even more RM's idea above. If either were a reality I would end up doing it.

[BuffaloBrad]

If Bills fans want to fund construction of a new stadium for the team, there's already a mechanism for that. It's called a PSL.

[BuffaloBill]

Sorry but my opinion on this concept is that it is sadly ridiculous.

 

Even if you get past the idea of it being acceptable to the NFL. - highly unlikely - how do you get past the fact that the stadium economics and team economics in Buffalo don't add up compared to another large market?

 

The Bills best shot at remaining in Buffalo is a sentimental owners (group) and continuation of the regional concept. If the Bills were to succeed in being the Toronto / Southern Ontario "home team" without leaving Buffalo they might survive as the Buffalo Bills. The facts of the matter are that the dollar rules in the NFL and a large base of loyal average fans can't compete with TV and corporate money.

 

I think the Bills strengthen their position by continuing to build on the regional concept. If a new stadium is put in place and there is new ownership willing to keep the Bills in Buffalo the Stadium should be built in Niagara Falls. It has world wide appeal as a name and sitting at the border it helps to cement the Ontario / Toronto ties.

 

Finally, the Falls might be enough of a destination that they draw more corporate entertainment to the stadium.

 

The problem with all of this is that the city of Niagara Falls NY looks worse than many in third world countries. NF Ontario immediately around the Falls is nice but the rest of it is not exactly nice. However, if the NFL thinks a stadium located in the City of Industry in LA is palatable they can likely overcome the ugliness of the Niagara Falls metropolitan area.

[machine gun kelly]

Except he is asking about fans owning the stadium which I don't believe they're are any rules against.. But it's a pretty unrealistic concept. How are fans going to raise a billion dollars? Who will be in charge? What happens if the Bills leave anyway?

 

Why would any billionaire buy a team if he doesn't reap the rewards from stadium sales. I'm not sure if it is a joint public / private venture, if the city, county or state would receive soem regular renumeration. I think what is more likely is the state provides an interest free loan to the new owner or trust which they can use as a write off as you read in the Trump Forbes article. That is attractive to billionaires who are always looking for ways to evade unreasonable taxation.

[BringBackFergy]

Why would any billionaire buy a team if he doesn't reap the rewards from stadium sales. I'm not sure if it is a joint public / private venture, if the city, county or state would receive soem regular renumeration. I think what is more likely is the state provides an interest free loan to the new owner or trust which they can use as a write off as you read in the Trump Forbes article. That is attractive to billionaires who are always looking for ways to evade unreasonable taxation.

In the San Fransisco model the Niners pay almost $25 Million a year to the stadium owner, but in return, the Niners keep the concession sales and ticket revenue (split with visitor under NFL rules). I read this in The Atlantic "

In California, the City of Santa Clara broke ground on a $1.3 billion stadium for the 49ers. Officially, the deal includes $116 million in public funding, with private capital making up the rest. At least, that’s the way the deal was announced. A new government entity, the Santa Clara Stadium Authority, is borrowing $950 million, largely from a consortium led by Goldman Sachs, to provide the majority of the “private” financing. Who are the board members of the Santa Clara Stadium Authority? The members of the Santa Clara City Council. In effect, the city of Santa Clara is providing most of the “private” funding. Should something go wrong, taxpayers will likely take the hit.

The 49ers will pay Santa Clara $24.5 million annually in rent for four decades, which makes the deal, from the team’s standpoint, a 40-year loan amortized at less than 1 percent interest. At the time of the agreement, 30-year Treasury bonds were selling for 3 percent, meaning the Santa Clara contract values the NFL as a better risk than the United States government" http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2013/10/how-the-nfl-fleeces-taxpayers/309448/

 

"Although most of the capital for the new stadium is being underwritten by the public, most football revenue generated within the facility will be pocketed by Denise DeBartolo York, whose net worth is estimated at $1.1 billion"

 

The idea here is not to use PUBLIC funds as they did in Santa Clara, but private funding (whether it is $4000 per person x 200,000 people or larger investors). After 30 or 40 years the investors are paid off and the team stays put with a new state of the art facility. The NFL team (Buffalo Bills) keeps the concessions and ticket revenue to offset their lease/rent overhead.

[BuffaloBill]

In the San Fransisco model the Niners pay almost $25 Million a year to the stadium owner, but in return, the Niners keep the concession sales and ticket revenue (split with visitor under NFL rules). I read this in The Atlantic "

In California, the City of Santa Clara broke ground on a $1.3 billion stadium for the 49ers. Officially, the deal includes $116 million in public funding, with private capital making up the rest. At least, that’s the way the deal was announced. A new government entity, the Santa Clara Stadium Authority, is borrowing $950 million, largely from a consortium led by Goldman Sachs, to provide the majority of the “private” financing. Who are the board members of the Santa Clara Stadium Authority? The members of the Santa Clara City Council. In effect, the city of Santa Clara is providing most of the “private” funding. Should something go wrong, taxpayers will likely take the hit.

The 49ers will pay Santa Clara $24.5 million annually in rent for four decades, which makes the deal, from the team’s standpoint, a 40-year loan amortized at less than 1 percent interest. At the time of the agreement, 30-year Treasury bonds were selling for 3 percent, meaning the Santa Clara contract values the NFL as a better risk than the United States government" http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2013/10/how-the-nfl-fleeces-taxpayers/309448/

 

"Although most of the capital for the new stadium is being underwritten by the public, most football revenue generated within the facility will be pocketed by Denise DeBartolo York, whose net worth is estimated at $1.1 billion"

 

This points to the sad reality of the situation which is that very wealthy owners are subsidized by municipalities in the stadium game.

 

 

[BringBackFergy]

This points to the sad reality of the situation which is that very wealthy owners are subsidized by municipalities in the stadium game.

...but it does give the fans (private folks) an opportunity to keep the team local and still break even (rather than rely on governments to subsidize these monstrous stadiums paid for (in part) by little old ladies who would rather watch Lawrence Welk re-runs than Sunday football...not that there's anything wrong with that)

Edited April 3, 2014 by BringBackFergy