FireChan Posted April 1, 2014 Posted April 1, 2014 Nothing has really changed, the old thinking that permeates this franchise still hasn't changed. I don't hate the man, as I see things he is just doing what Mr Wilson asked of him, his job. Now he is going to be doing the same things for the Wilson family. My thinking is that while Brandon might be a good guy, and the type that others really like...that doesn't win many football games, as Chan Gailey found out. What wins championships is people with true football acumen, along with the knowledge of what it encompasses to build a championship team. All this hodgepodge hiring of "maybe" this guy has it, or perhaps this guy has been around the league long enough, simply isn't getting it done. I could wait until after the draft to start my seasonal pissing into the wind against the perennial optimists. However, with that FA Williams signing I just don't see anything changing much, even with the draft. Lots of people see this team as being "close". I don't, not on offense. You and I both know if the Bills take an O-lineman at 9, you'll be sucked right back.
thebandit27 Posted April 1, 2014 Posted April 1, 2014 Some of this stuff is funny...nothing has changed...except for all the stuff that has
3rdand12 Posted April 1, 2014 Posted April 1, 2014 Absolutely...time will tell as to whether or not the changes will have the desired affect...my only beef is with the idea that nothing involving the running of the franchise has changed recently...it most definitely has; we're just not sure if these changes will get the job done. I think we'll get a pretty good idea this season. I feel "The Change " has already occurred . And its seems tied to the Brandon promotion . Then Whaley put into his designated role and the bringing in Marrone . And then Pettine. Lotsa staffing changes with coaches , scouts , personnel and players . What becomes of it should be better defined when the season starts . But the significant shift has occured . I get a much better vibe now with Whaley than i have before . Better or worse Russ has changed the dynamics . I think anyways
GaryPinC Posted April 1, 2014 Posted April 1, 2014 Nothing has really changed, the old thinking that permeates this franchise still hasn't changed. I don't hate the man, as I see things he is just doing what Mr Wilson asked of him, his job. Now he is going to be doing the same things for the Wilson family. My thinking is that while Brandon might be a good guy, and the type that others really like...that doesn't win many football games, as Chan Gailey found out. What wins championships is people with true football acumen, along with the knowledge of what it encompasses to build a championship team. All this hodgepodge hiring of "maybe" this guy has it, or perhaps this guy has been around the league long enough, simply isn't getting it done. I could wait until after the draft to start my seasonal pissing into the wind against the perennial optimists. However, with that FA Williams signing I just don't see anything changing much, even with the draft. Lots of people see this team as being "close". I don't, not on offense. Nothing's changed? For starters, if Ralph had still been in charge I highly doubt the Toronto series gets put on hold. Looking at how we went after Marrone and Pettine, I don't recall the Bills being that organized and decisive about coaching decisions ever. Just to clarify, Russ Brandon is not directly responsible for winning games. He is responsible for bringing in the proper people under him so that they will win us games. Right now it's Whaley and Marrone and you HAVE to allow your people to work for you. It's also unclear if Whaley was Brandon's preference, he may have been Buddy and Ralph's preference. I don't hold Brandon responsible except from 2013 forward. He is a corporate speak guy, but you should be if you're the face of the franchise. He also came back from Detroit and went to an informal tailgate tribute the next day, he said they were going to review the Toronto series shortly before it got put on hold. That says a lot about his underlying character. I have the sense that this franchise has an organized plan moving forward which is refreshing. As far as Byrd, we just don't know what the decision making process was on that, Whaley/Marrone could have been a significant factor. We just know the FO wasn't comfortable with $9 mil per year, we'll see how it works out.
thewildrabbit Posted April 1, 2014 Posted April 1, 2014 (edited) You and I both know if the Bills take an O-lineman at 9, you'll be sucked right back. Looking at the history of the draft with this team, and knowing that almost everything drafted past the third round is a long shot to even become a starter. Even then, I can't think of any third rounders that have made any kind of impact the last decade as a long term starter. So, basically the Bills have two rounds to get it right on whomever they draft. You and I both know this team isn't about to draft an OG or an OT with the #9 or #41 picks. The team simply has to many holes to fill on offense to build a viable top performing team with only two picks. So, the end result is three young second year QB's all trying to learn, and develop while running for their lives. How has that same type of scenario worked out over the last 14 years? Like I said, the old thinking that permeates this franchise still hasn't changed. There is no way Brandon will survive an ownership change. I think he even realizes that. It's hard for successful executives to survive a new ownership group, let alone one with a dubious track record. The best part of that is when all his lackeys also get the boot. Lastly, just because Brandon & co hired some new people in various positions. Doesn't mean those new people know what they are doing, all it means is they are new. Edited April 2, 2014 by FeartheLosing
Kirby Jackson Posted April 2, 2014 Posted April 2, 2014 (edited) Even then, I can't think of any third rounders that have made any kind of impact the last decade as a long term starter. Kyle Williams, Stevie Johnson, Fred Jackson and Jason Peters jump out to me. There are others like Robey, George Wilson and Demetress Bell that have been effective. I actually think that the Bills have found some gems. They have also drafted some absolute scrubs (Asper, Calloway and Potter jump out). Edited April 2, 2014 by Kirby Jackson
GaryPinC Posted April 2, 2014 Posted April 2, 2014 Lastly, just because Brandon & co hired some new people in various positions. Doesn't mean those new people know what they are doing, all it means is they are new. It's been one year. You may be right or they may know very well what they're doing. It's early. Perhaps you would feel more at home as a Cleveland Browns fan. I'm looking forward to our draft this year. I don't believe Buddy "keep it simple" Nix was responsible for trading back and getting us that extra pick last year.
LOVEMESOMEBILLS Posted April 2, 2014 Posted April 2, 2014 I feel "The Change " has already occurred . And its seems tied to the Brandon promotion . Then Whaley put into his designated role and the bringing in Marrone . And then Pettine. Lotsa staffing changes with coaches , scouts , personnel and players . What becomes of it should be better defined when the season starts . But the significant shift has occured . I get a much better vibe now with Whaley than i have before . Better or worse Russ has changed the dynamics . I think anyways I feel "The Change " has already occurred . And its seems tied to the Brandon promotion . Then Whaley put into his designated role and the bringing in Marrone . And then Pettine. Lotsa staffing changes with coaches , scouts , personnel and players . What becomes of it should be better defined when the season starts . But the significant shift has occured . I get a much better vibe now with Whaley than i have before . Better or worse Russ has changed the dynamics . I think anyways Nothing's changed? For starters, if Ralph had still been in charge I highly doubt the Toronto series gets put on hold. Looking at how we went after Marrone and Pettine, I don't recall the Bills being that organized and decisive about coaching decisions ever. Just to clarify, Russ Brandon is not directly responsible for winning games. He is responsible for bringing in the proper people under him so that they will win us games. Right now it's Whaley and Marrone and you HAVE to allow your people to work for you. It's also unclear if Whaley was Brandon's preference, he may have been Buddy and Ralph's preference. I don't hold Brandon responsible except from 2013 forward. He is a corporate speak guy, but you should be if you're the face of the franchise. He also came back from Detroit and went to an informal tailgate tribute the next day, he said they were going to review the Toronto series shortly before it got put on hold. That says a lot about his underlying character. I have the sense that this franchise has an organized plan moving forward which is refreshing. As far as Byrd, we just don't know what the decision making process was on that, Whaley/Marrone could have been a significant factor. We just know the FO wasn't comfortable with $9 mil per year, we'll see how it works out. Well said by both of you. I too believe it's changed, and for me it feels for the good, but we'll find out in 1-2 years.3rd and 12 mentioned a different vibe, and that's what I've been thinking for about a year. I'll go on record and say this year will be the first winning season since 04.
FireChan Posted April 2, 2014 Posted April 2, 2014 Looking at the history of the draft with this team, and knowing that almost everything drafted past the third round is a long shot to even become a starter. Even then, I can't think of any third rounders that have made any kind of impact the last decade as a long term starter. So, basically the Bills have two rounds to get it right on whomever they draft. You and I both know this team isn't about to draft an OG or an OT with the #9 or #41 picks. The team simply has to many holes to fill on offense to build a viable top performing team with only two picks. So, the end result is three young second year QB's all trying to learn, and develop while running for their lives. How has that same type of scenario worked out over the last 14 years? Like I said, the old thinking that permeates this franchise still hasn't changed. The best part of that is when all his lackeys also get the boot. Lastly, just because Brandon & co hired some new people in various positions. Doesn't mean those new people know what they are doing, all it means is they are new. Relax. I'm just pushing your buttons because you are the champion of the importance of O-linemen. I actually have a sneaking suspicion you really are Greg Robinson gunning for a big payday.
GA BILLS FAN Posted April 2, 2014 Posted April 2, 2014 Unfortunately, this take completely ignores the very obvious changes that took place once Russ was promoted to CEO, including--but not limited to--the following: - Total revamping of the scouting department - Placement of a new GM - Hiring of a new head coach - Beefing up of the coaching staff in general to include special assistants, etc. - Total change in draft philosophy, from actually focusing on the most important position in the game to drafting players that aren't necessarily choir boys - etc. Come on Bandit --- these will only be REAL changes if the guys he puts in those jobs perform -- you know as well as I that EVERY 3 years we hire a new coach and hire a new GM every 5 years -- those are hardly "changes" --- as for special assistants, draft philosophy and scouting -- jury is out on those changes --- meanwhile, same training staff (against coaches wishes); Byrd / Levitre walk; under spend CAP etc. ---- ---- I feel bad you have so little ammunition to defend Brandon --- I'm hoping he provides you a ton after next season --- this is one debate I want YOU to win !!
Estro Posted April 2, 2014 Posted April 2, 2014 Did anyone watch the presser posted on buffalobills.com today of Russ with the state and county executives? When the dude representing Erie county spoke up a couple of times Russ looked like he was ready to take his head off. His body language and Scotty Berchtold body language (in the background) looked like they didn't get along at all with this guy. Wondering if anybody else picked up on that?
thebandit27 Posted April 2, 2014 Posted April 2, 2014 Come on Bandit --- these will only be REAL changes if the guys he puts in those jobs perform -- you know as well as I that EVERY 3 years we hire a new coach and hire a new GM every 5 years -- those are hardly "changes" --- as for special assistants, draft philosophy and scouting -- jury is out on those changes --- meanwhile, same training staff (against coaches wishes); Byrd / Levitre walk; under spend CAP etc. ---- ---- I feel bad you have so little ammunition to defend Brandon --- I'm hoping he provides you a ton after next season --- this is one debate I want YOU to win !! I think you're conflating (understandably) the issue of change vs results. There have been, undoubtedly, massive organizational changes from top to bottom; the on-field results of them are wholly unproven to this point. As to Brandon, I don't really think he needs defending at this point. He's been CEO for a year, and in that time he's put his organizational structure in place...let's see how it works out. As others here can tell you, the team's credibility around the league has improved significantly in the last 16 months--that should tell us something.
3rdand12 Posted April 2, 2014 Posted April 2, 2014 Did anyone watch the presser posted on buffalobills.com today of Russ with the state and county executives? When the dude representing Erie county spoke up a couple of times Russ looked like he was ready to take his head off. His body language and Scotty Berchtold body language (in the background) looked like they didn't get along at all with this guy. Wondering if anybody else picked up on that? Interesting. I did not see that yet . But i will check into it. What does that mean do you think ? Well said by both of you. I too believe it's changed, and for me it feels for the good, but we'll find out in 1-2 years.3rd and 12 mentioned a different vibe, and that's what I've been thinking for about a year. I'll go on record and say this year will be the first winning season since 04. Noted I think you're conflating (understandably) the issue of change vs results. There have been, undoubtedly, massive organizational changes from top to bottom; the on-field results of them are wholly unproven to this point. As to Brandon, I don't really think he needs defending at this point. He's been CEO for a year, and in that time he's put his organizational structure in place...let's see how it works out. As others here can tell you, the team's credibility around the league has improved significantly in the last 16 months--that should tell us something. This should be apparent And i find it telling. Something is brewing . We dont know how it will turn out . But its not Genny light this time
Mr. WEO Posted April 2, 2014 Posted April 2, 2014 As others here can tell you, the team's credibility around the league has improved significantly in the last 16 months--that should tell us something. This should be apparent And i find it telling. Something is brewing . We dont know how it will turn out . But its not Genny light this time Less than a year ago, Brandon said "Buddy Nix is our General Manager and will be for a long time". Nix "stepped down" 2 weeks later. The Bills hired a college coach (from a very mediocre program), who assembled a staff that included a star DC and a nobody as OC/QB coach. After a single season, the HC fired his WR coach, replaced his QB coach, didn't fire his incompetent ST coach and his only legimate coaching staff member (the DC) bolted to take, as its 5h choice, a HC job at arguably the worst team in the NFL. And that guy was replaced by a guy who was just fired from his last job as HC where he had a rep for mediocre defenses and inability to control poorly behaving players. And the Bills went 6-10 for the 3rd straight season (4th time in the past 5 years). How has all of this "significantly improved" the team's "credibility around the league"?
GA BILLS FAN Posted April 2, 2014 Posted April 2, 2014 (edited) I think you're conflating (understandably) the issue of change vs results. There have been, undoubtedly, massive organizational changes from top to bottom; the on-field results of them are wholly unproven to this point. As to Brandon, I don't really think he needs defending at this point. He's been CEO for a year, and in that time he's put his organizational structure in place...let's see how it works out. As others here can tell you, the team's credibility around the league has improved significantly in the last 16 months--that should tell us something. I think you are injecting too much hope into your argument at this juncture. What I've seen over the past year looks no different than what we've all seen over the past 14 years -- new GM, new coach, new philosophy on players, missing playoffs --- you could be right, that this change is indeed different, but until it manifests itself on the field, it's more of the same, in my opinion. Edited April 2, 2014 by TXBILLSFAN
May Day 10 Posted April 2, 2014 Posted April 2, 2014 (edited) Nothing's changed? For starters, if Ralph had still been in charge I highly doubt the Toronto series gets put on hold. Looking at how we went after Marrone and Pettine, I don't recall the Bills being that organized and decisive about coaching decisions ever. Just to clarify, Russ Brandon is not directly responsible for winning games. He is responsible for bringing in the proper people under him so that they will win us games. Right now it's Whaley and Marrone and you HAVE to allow your people to work for you. It's also unclear if Whaley was Brandon's preference, he may have been Buddy and Ralph's preference. I don't hold Brandon responsible except from 2013 forward. He is a corporate speak guy, but you should be if you're the face of the franchise. He also came back from Detroit and went to an informal tailgate tribute the next day, he said they were going to review the Toronto series shortly before it got put on hold. That says a lot about his underlying character. I have the sense that this franchise has an organized plan moving forward which is refreshing. As far as Byrd, we just don't know what the decision making process was on that, Whaley/Marrone could have been a significant factor. We just know the FO wasn't comfortable with $9 mil per year, we'll see how it works out. Dont forget, Brandon signed a new agreement after his big "promotion" in the first place (right after saying ALL decisions will be geared solely to win). We also dont know what really happened behind the scenes. For all we know Toronto/Rogers and the NFL could have been pressing to end/delay the deal due to all the bad press. He also didnt bring on Whaley. He has been here for awhile. Nix was definitely staying here for a long time, then he resigned. To me that is the same type of over-speak/guarded speak the Bills have used since I can remember. I also dislike how protective/decisive they are on their sorry QB position of going forth with Manuel, Lewis, and Tuel. Many good QBs in the league were drafted/traded even with a decent/proven guy already in the position. Kaepernick, Foles, Rivers come to mind off the top of my head. To me that is more of the over-guarded attitude that we are used to. The whole Byrd thing was mishandled from last year on. I can see the argument of letting Levitre walk, but apparently there was no effort at all in retaining him, nor finding any sort of serviceable replacement. Edited April 2, 2014 by May Day 10
thebandit27 Posted April 2, 2014 Posted April 2, 2014 I think you are injecting too much hope into your argument at this juncture. What I've seen over the past year looks no different than what we've all seen over the past 14 years -- new GM, new coach, new philosophy on players, missing playoffs --- you could be right, that this change is indeed different, but until it manifests itself on the field, it's more of the same, in my opinion. Really? I felt my last response was purely factual. Yes, the changes need to be reflected on the field; the crux of the issue IMO is that it may take more than one season for that to be undeniably apparent. If there's no improvement this season, you'll have a hard time convincing me that this regime is any better...
Dorkington Posted April 2, 2014 Posted April 2, 2014 I like all the argument back and forth about "change" yet our record has stayed the same. Hopefully this the year we actually some results on the football field.
thebandit27 Posted April 2, 2014 Posted April 2, 2014 Less than a year ago, Brandon said "Buddy Nix is our General Manager and will be for a long time". Nix "stepped down" 2 weeks later. The Bills hired a college coach (from a very mediocre program), who assembled a staff that included a star DC and a nobody as OC/QB coach. After a single season, the HC fired his WR coach, replaced his QB coach, didn't fire his incompetent ST coach and his only legimate coaching staff member (the DC) bolted to take, as its 5h choice, a HC job at arguably the worst team in the NFL. And that guy was replaced by a guy who was just fired from his last job as HC where he had a rep for mediocre defenses and inability to control poorly behaving players. And the Bills went 6-10 for the 3rd straight season (4th time in the past 5 years). How has all of this "significantly improved" the team's "credibility around the league"? That's a pretty blatantly slanted take on the situation. Marrone was a candidate for at least 2 other NFL head coaching jobs; as much as you make it seem that the team went dumpster-diving for their coach, they didn't. I also can't possibly fathom how you simultaneously criticize Marrone for both making changes and not making changes to his staff. Folks tend to have a stronger foundation for their point when they pick one consistent mindset and stick with it. As to Schwartz, coaches get fired every year and resume their jobs as coordinator with success. I'm sure you don't need me to list all of them...and by the way, Schwartz is not the HC here; it isn't his job to control the players, as that responsibility falls on Marrone. Unlike you, I like the fact that the team now has 3 former DCs working on the defensive side of the ball. I also like that they added a special assistant on offense in Hostler. To me, this shows progress in terms of coaching. Lastly, you don't have to take my word for it, as other folks on this board can speak more directly to how this team is viewed around the league. Their credibility (and stability) as a well-functioning football organization is on the rise, whether you can see it or not.
Kirby Jackson Posted April 2, 2014 Posted April 2, 2014 Really? I felt my last response was purely factual. Yes, the changes need to be reflected on the field; the crux of the issue IMO is that it may take more than one season for that to be undeniably apparent. If there's no improvement this season, you'll have a hard time convincing me that this regime is any better... There is no doubt that the changes have taken place on the football side. The same thing happened on the business side 8 -10 years ago when RB was given the chance. He minimized the power of all of those people that were coasting along on the old way of doing things (Munson, Foran, etc..) People getting huge checks to really do nothing noteworthy. They were replaced by younger, more creative and innovative executives tasked with catching up with the rest of the league. It has worked. The same thing happened in the last year on the football side. The jury is out on the results but the changes have taken place. Analytics are playing a bigger role, the GM and coach are 1 year in, they tried to find the face of their franchise (whom I don't think is very good), they have let expensive free agents go and tried to spend that money on multiple players to build depth, etc... Bandit referenced a bunch more above. The changes have undeniably taken place. Have they worked? It's too early to tell IMO. My best guess is like everything some will work and others will fail.
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