GA BILLS FAN Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 Actually it takes a lot to satisfy me. By the same token I don't think being inherently negative about everything is some sort of prerequisite to being a fan. I look at last years draft and the 'value' approach that the team is taking towards free agency and see a lot of positives. I think the most important aspect of building a successful football team is talent evaluation. That means two things. Nailing the draft. Signing free agents who bring the most value. In the short amount of time Whaley has been the GM hes done both. As for Cory Graham. Aaron Williams was an inconsistent corner also Tasker. He moved to strong safety and its a much better fit. I dont think the bills signed Graham to play corner. i think they signed him to play free safety. Marrone already came out and said they are going to give him a look at that spot. Maybe we have another Aaron Williams on our hands. When Williams was drafted many scouts thought he should be moved to safety from the get go. turns out they were right. The same could happen in grahams case. its called 'thinking outside the box'. Two things I can promise you Tasker. First, im not going anywhere. Second, Ill have plenty of negative things to say when the time comes. If EJ has 6 tds and 15 ints after eight games and Marrone is still defending him then Im gonna start wondering about Marrone. I have serious issues with him retaining Crossman. I think he is undermining his credibility when he holds other assistant coaches accountable, yet lets his buddy stay on after another miserable special teams performance under his(crossmans) direction. I can assure you the 'types of posters' your referring to don't include me. If your gonna debate. Just do it intelligently. Its simple. I've always tried to take the emotion out of my debates on this forum. Sometimes it's hard to do, as you and most others can attest. When it comes to Brandon, I see overwhelming evidence of failure and little or no evidence of success when it comes to the product on the field. To prove my fairness, I've been outwardly supportive of Whaley as a GM, his first draft by all indications has been a success (although the jury is still out of EJ). His free agent signings in 2013 were good, especially Hughes and Lawson. I don't blame him for letting Levitre and Byrd walk, I think that was a Brandon/Littman decision based on budget. As for Marrone, I think his first year was good, not great, but good. I loved the Pettine hire and was mad when he left. I liked replacing him with Schwartz. I did NOT like retaining Crossman. I also give Marrone (and Whaley) some leeway because (1) they are NEW to their positions and (2) they are under certain restrictions from the FO (i.e. the training staff, Byrd, Levitre). So, debate is good, but when it comes to Brandon, I've yet to see one post that is based on facts that refutes my claim that he has been a FO failure when it comes to the only true measurable of success, WINS over the past 14 years.
Gordio Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 I generally agree with most of what you post, but not this time. 1) The power drinkers ruined tailgating in lot 1. It's been getting progressively worse for years with some people thinking you can't tailgate without being so drunk you puke in the lot, harass people including kids, or worse. I suspect a lot of the direction for this came from the NFL that wants a more "family friendly" environment. The power drinkers are not family friendly at all. In fact they are quite an embarrassment. 2) This is something that is happening everywhere. Many workplaces have gone from from smoking wherever, to smoking in a designated room, to outdoors only, to nowhere on campus. 3). Well there is no defense for this 4) Marrone was highly regarded at the time. And he was willing to take the job in Buffalo. You may have wanted someone else, but that someone else would have needed to accept the job. The jury is still out on Marrone as far as I am concerned as well. But blaming Brandon for this makes no sense to me (at least right now). Concerning #1, how would you know? You said yourself in many posts you don't go to the games.
Kirby Jackson Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 I've always tried to take the emotion out of my debates on this forum. Sometimes it's hard to do, as you and most others can attest. When it comes to Brandon, I see overwhelming evidence of failure and little or no evidence of success when it comes to the product on the field. To prove my fairness, I've been outwardly supportive of Whaley as a GM, his first draft by all indications has been a success (although the jury is still out of EJ). His free agent signings in 2013 were good, especially Hughes and Lawson. I don't blame him for letting Levitre and Byrd walk, I think that was a Brandon/Littman decision based on budget. As for Marrone, I think his first year was good, not great, but good. I loved the Pettine hire and was mad when he left. I liked replacing him with Schwartz. I did NOT like retaining Crossman. I also give Marrone (and Whaley) some leeway because (1) they are NEW to their positions and (2) they are under certain restrictions from the FO (i.e. the training staff, Byrd, Levitre). So, debate is good, but when it comes to Brandon, I've yet to see one post that is based on facts that refutes my claim that he has been a FO failure when it comes to the only true measurable of success, WINS over the past 14 years. I am not trying to nitpick but he has done well with what he has been responsible for. I think that someone said that the Bills were like 15th in revenue last year? That is insane in that market and with that stadium. In terms of wins this was the first GM and coach that he has hired so the jury is out. I guess that I judge each person as a success or not based on what he or she does. If I have a ticket sales guy on my staff that sold more season tickets than any other ticket sales guy in the entire league and the team wins 4 games is he a success or a failure?
CodeMonkey Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 (edited) Concerning #1, how would you know? You said yourself in many posts you don't go to the games. I have stopped going in recent years, but I have gone to many games over the years and had a season ticket for a couple seasons that ended about 3 seasons ago. Edited March 31, 2014 by CodeMonkey
thebandit27 Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 Promo, please. Can you ever skip an opportunity to bash fellow Bills Fans? What do we know for sure than Brandon has done? He are a few things..... 1) He ruined tailgates in Lot 1. 2) He banned cigarette smoking in secluded outdoor areas of RWS. 3) He was in charge when they drafted Maybin. 4) He hired an unproven Syracuse crony for head coach. This admittedly can turn into a plus, but how confident are you? This isn't about fans being the problem. He will win over the fans when he does something to make this team win football games. No offense intended here Bill: 1) yes, on his watch, tailgating in lot 1 was curtailed...Bills' fans own more of the responsibility for this than Brandon IMO 2) cigarettes are being banned in public all over the US...nowhere is it a law that folks need to be allowed to smoke...many fans, including myself (a former smoker) were grateful for the change. 3) Maybin was a terrible pick...although as has been said, if we're knocking Brandon for the Maybin pick, then we need to be universal about that draft and give him credit for Wood, Byrd, and Levitre 4) Marrone was Nix/Whaley's call...Brandon gave his opinion, but this was NOT his hire. It was primarily Whaley's. This is not my opinion, as it has been confirmed both from folks I trust and others on this board that would know.
Mr. WEO Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 No offense intended here Bill: 1) yes, on his watch, tailgating in lot 1 was curtailed...Bills' fans own more of the responsibility for this than Brandon IMO 2) cigarettes are being banned in public all over the US...nowhere is it a law that folks need to be allowed to smoke...many fans, including myself (a former smoker) were grateful for the change. 3) Maybin was a terrible pick...although as has been said, if we're knocking Brandon for the Maybin pick, then we need to be universal about that draft and give him credit for Wood, Byrd, and Levitre 4) Marrone was Nix/Whaley's call...Brandon gave his opinion, but this was NOT his hire. It was primarily Whaley's. This is not my opinion, as it has been confirmed both from folks I trust and others on this board that would know. In the 5 years since they were drafted, the Bills have won 28 games (4 6-10 seasons and a 4-13 season). Wood anchors an O-line that is still viewed as mediocre or worse by the majority of psoters here. Byrd and Levitre are gone and we got nothing for them--4 and 5 years after they were drafted. It's like they were never here. Nice picks, perhaps, but in the end--little impact. That's the Brandon legacy so far--in a nutshell.
GA BILLS FAN Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 I am not trying to nitpick but he has done well with what he has been responsible for. I think that someone said that the Bills were like 15th in revenue last year? That is insane in that market and with that stadium. In terms of wins this was the first GM and coach that he has hired so the jury is out. I guess that I judge each person as a success or not based on what he or she does. If I have a ticket sales guy on my staff that sold more season tickets than any other ticket sales guy in the entire league and the team wins 4 games is he a success or a failure? And this has generally been the biggest argument on Brandon's behalf, that he has NOT been responsible for the on the field failures the past 14 years. While I can accept that assertion for the first part of those 14 years, Brandon was a key decision maker in FO for a good part of the past decade. As for a debate on the his performance in other areas, i.e. marketing etc. it's a non-starter -- I looked up figures that show the Bills in the bottom third in Revenue and Operating Income in 2011, 2012 and I suspect in 2013; I'm sure the retort will be that he is maximizing the top line in a small market. I'm willing to admin I'm wrong if the Bills turn things around and win this year or next. I'm hoping beyond hope that is the case.
DOGNESS Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 (edited) I've always tried to take the emotion out of my debates on this forum. Sometimes it's hard to do, as you and most others can attest. When it comes to Brandon, I see overwhelming evidence of failure and little or no evidence of success when it comes to the product on the field. To prove my fairness, I've been outwardly supportive of Whaley as a GM, his first draft by all indications has been a success (although the jury is still out of EJ). His free agent signings in 2013 were good, especially Hughes and Lawson. I don't blame him for letting Levitre and Byrd walk, I think that was a Brandon/Littman decision based on budget. As for Marrone, I think his first year was good, not great, but good. I loved the Pettine hire and was mad when he left. I liked replacing him with Schwartz. I did NOT like retaining Crossman. I also give Marrone (and Whaley) some leeway because (1) they are NEW to their positions and (2) they are under certain restrictions from the FO (i.e. the training staff, Byrd, Levitre). So, debate is good, but when it comes to Brandon, I've yet to see one post that is based on facts that refutes my claim that he has been a FO failure when it comes to the only true measurable of success, WINS over the past 14 years. I dont know how you can blame Brandon for 14 years when he didnt get full control until recently. His first real football moves where hiring Marrone and promoting Whaley. Those happened last year. I think he had little to do with the hiring of Nix or any or his predecessors. Not that Nix was bad just that Brandon didnt really start making major football decisions until this past year and in this past year ive seen some pretty smart moves. Lawson would be another . Polian was masterful at that. getting good players(S. Tasker, K. Davis, J. Davis, J. lofton, K. Hull, etc) for nothing. Ill add Im not calling Whaley the next Polian. Just saying I see some similarities to the way they handle personel. Whaley has a long long long long way to go before hes in the same class as Polian. If he ever even gets there. Thats a huge set of shoes to fill/be compared to. Edited March 31, 2014 by DOGNESS
RyanC883 Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 Russ is: (a) a great guy; and (b) a great CEO for the Bills. He is local, and wants a winner. Fans incorrectly blame him for the teams failures of the past 14 years simply because he has been here. But his side is business operations (selling seats). He's done a great job with that. Also, his first real action, promoting Whaley to GM, seems to me like a winner so far. And don't underestimate the factor that having him here could do to prevent relocation of the team. I dont know how you can blame Brandon for 14 years when he didnt get full control until recently. His first real football moves where hiring Marrone and promoting Whaley. Those happened last year. I think he had little to do with the hiring of Nix or any or his predecessors. Not that Nix was bad just that Brandon didnt really start making major football decisions until this past year and in this past year ive seen some pretty smart moves. Lawson would be another . Polian was masterful at that. getting good players(S. Tasker, K. Davis, J. Davis, J. lofton, K. Hull, etc) for nothing. Ill add Im not calling Whaley the next Polian. Just saying I see some similarities to the way they handle personel. Whaley has a long long long long way to go before hes in the same class as Polian. If he ever even gets there. Thats a huge set of shoes to fill/be compared to. I also like how Whaley is interested in going after every good player that hits the market. May not sign the vast majority of them, but I like the no stone left un-turned approach. Jury is still out on Marrone for me. I like him, and think he is a good coach, but he needs to realize this is the NFL, not college, and stop treating his players like college kids who need to "learn life lessons." Coach them to win the game, if they want a life coach, recommend someone who does that for a living. Fine players if they miss or are late for meetings, but don't cut/hold them out of a quarter, etc., which seriously hurts the teams chances of winning.
GA BILLS FAN Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 I dont know how you can blame Brandon for 14 years when he didnt get full control until recently. His first real football moves where hiring Marrone and promoting Whaley. Those happened last year. I think he had little to do with the hiring of Nix or any or his predecessors. Not that Nix was bad just that Brandon didnt really start making major football decisions until this past year and in this past year ive seen some pretty smart moves. Lawson would be another . Polian was masterful at that. getting good players(S. Tasker, K. Davis, J. Davis, J. lofton, K. Hull, etc) for nothing. Ill add Im not calling Whaley the next Polian. Just saying I see some similarities to the way they handle personel. Whaley has a long long long long way to go before hes in the same class as Polian. If he ever even gets there. Thats a huge set of shoes to fill/be compared to. Brandon was promoted to "high level executive position" in 2006. That was 8 years ago. He was named CEO in 2009. That was 5 years ago. Jauron was hired in 2006. Jauron's contract was extended in 2008. Nix and Gailey were both hired in 2010. Not holding Brandon accountable for the performance of this team over that time period doesn't make sense to me. Who made those decisions ? If it was the 90+ year old owner, who was making the final recommendations to him ? I continue to be amazed that this guy (Brandon) gets such ardent defense from so many for what on the surface seems to be a career of utter failure and at best mediocrity.
FireChan Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 Brandon was promoted to "high level executive position" in 2006. That was 8 years ago. He was named CEO in 2009. That was 5 years ago. Jauron was hired in 2006. Jauron's contract was extended in 2008. Nix and Gailey were both hired in 2010. Not holding Brandon accountable for the performance of this team over that time period doesn't make sense to me. Who made those decisions ? If it was the 90+ year old owner, who was making the final recommendations to him ? I continue to be amazed that this guy (Brandon) gets such ardent defense from so many for what on the surface seems to be a career of utter failure and at best mediocrity. We had so many good coaches who wanted to come here for less 100 million dollar contracts. What were we thinking?
Kemp Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 Brandon's success will most likely be defined by Manuel's success.
Campy Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 (edited) Is it not obvious to you that he's using an analogy to illustrate his point that people can grow into a job? Does that not make sense, Crayonz? Edited March 31, 2014 by Beerball
Kirby Jackson Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 Brandon was promoted to "high level executive position" in 2006. That was 8 years ago. He was named CEO in 2009. That was 5 years ago. Jauron was hired in 2006. Jauron's contract was extended in 2008. Nix and Gailey were both hired in 2010. Not holding Brandon accountable for the performance of this team over that time period doesn't make sense to me. Who made those decisions ? If it was the 90+ year old owner, who was making the final recommendations to him ? I continue to be amazed that this guy (Brandon) gets such ardent defense from so many for what on the surface seems to be a career of utter failure and at best mediocrity. I guess that I give him a bit of slack because I know what challenges he faces probably better than most on here. We will see what happens now that he has full control but for the most part the Bills fanbase is actually starting to see and appreciate what a strong executive RB is. Within OBD and around the league (and other leagues) people have always felt that way.
JPS Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 I believe he is also matching all the funds from that tailgate going to Hunter's Hope out of his own pocket. Again, evidence of the man's character..
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 Promo, please. Can you ever skip an opportunity to bash fellow Bills Fans? What do we know for sure than Brandon has done? He are a few things..... 1) He ruined tailgates in Lot 1. 2) He banned cigarette smoking in secluded outdoor areas of RWS. 3) He was in charge when they drafted Maybin. 4) He hired an unproven Syracuse crony for head coach. This admittedly can turn into a plus, but how confident are you? This isn't about fans being the problem. He will win over the fans when he does something to make this team win football games. 1) I go to awesome tailgates and never have a problem. 2) No offense but I couldn't give two craps about smokers. IF you want to kill yourself, do it at home. I have zero sympathy for smokers and I'm glad he got rid of the places they can smoke. 3) The 49ers drafted AJ Jenkins in the 1st round and traded him without catching one pass for them. Busts happen. 4) Link about the Brandon being Marrone's crony? I'd love to see one. Is your evidence simply that Brandon is from Syracuse and Marrone coached at Syracuse?
clearwater cadet Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 Why doesn't Russ put a group together and buy the team.
thewildrabbit Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 What is wrong with some of you? Until I see progress in terms of wins...its the same ole, lame ole Bills we have known for 14 years. It is my belief that Russ Brandon has been in control of the football side of the team as de facto GM since Marv Levy retired. How else could he ascend to the highest position of authority on the team if he had no dealings other then marketing. Then was given complete control of the entire team as CEO sometime last year. So, I see Brandon in being control of the football side since the end of the 2007 season. Even if that is not the case, and you want to believe he is only responsible for the last season. Still 6-10. When I see other teams with new head coaches and staffs make the playoffs or at least have a winning season. 4-12 *Chip Kelly -Philly to 10-6 playoffs with the backup QB 5-11 *Bruce Arians-Arizona to 10-6 brings in a vet QB, and missed the playoffs because in the same division with Seattle & San Fran 2-14 *Andy Reid -KC 11-5 brings in a vet QB, and playoffs 7-9 *Mike McCoy -San Diego 9-7 stabilizes the O line, and resurrected a QB most had given up on, result playoffs 10-6 Marc Trestman -Chicago 8-8, with the starting QB hurt a lot, gets to a decent record with the backup QB 6-10 Doug Marrone- Buffalo 6-10 5-11 Rob Chudzinski 4-12 fired* 2-14 Gus Bradley 4-12 at least they won 2 more games. So, out of eight new head coaches four really improved their respective teams, and the other half not very good. Its my take that the Bills could have finished with a much better record had they found a decent veteran QB, and replaced LG Levitre properly. This year they find another dumpster player to fill in at LG. Bringing in a 100 million dollar DE, and 5 cent O linemen doesn't win many games in my view. Bottom line, until this team has a winning season I'm not going to give the marketing man and props for filling the stadium. I wanna see wins. This is my opinion, and not going to debate it.
GA BILLS FAN Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 I guess that I give him a bit of slack because I know what challenges he faces probably better than most on here. We will see what happens now that he has full control but for the most part the Bills fanbase is actually starting to see and appreciate what a strong executive RB is. Within OBD and around the league (and other leagues) people have always felt that way. I really hope he proves me wrong, I would like nothing more than to write an open apology on this forum when the Bills make the playoffs that says, "once he was given full authority and control, Russ Brandon proved me and a lot of others wrong by being instrumental in the turnaround of this team from a losing organization to one that is in the playoffs and on a path to be competitive in the future."
DOGNESS Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 Brandon was promoted to "high level executive position" in 2006. That was 8 years ago. He was named CEO in 2009. That was 5 years ago. Jauron was hired in 2006. Jauron's contract was extended in 2008. Nix and Gailey were both hired in 2010. Not holding Brandon accountable for the performance of this team over that time period doesn't make sense to me. Who made those decisions ? If it was the 90+ year old owner, who was making the final recommendations to him ? I continue to be amazed that this guy (Brandon) gets such ardent defense from so many for what on the surface seems to be a career of utter failure and at best mediocrity. Yea. It was the 90 year old owner. The owner hired Tom Donahoe, then Marv Levy, then Buddy Nix. Those where all decisions Ralph made and its well documented that he was the one who made them. Brandon had nothing to do with those hires. If you want to ignore the facts to prove your point go ahead. Those are facts. When ralphs health started going downhill he put Brandon in charge and Brandon moved out Buddy and promoted Whaley. Its well documented that Wilson stuck his nose in the football side of things far more than he should have. And thats a big part of why this team has been bad so often through out its history. Every time Wilson had a strong personality running the show (Saban, Knox, Polian,) it always ended in problems and ultimately one of the few really competent people Wilson hired got fired. probably one of the biggest flaws of Ralph.
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