Alphadawg7 Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 (edited) really all i was getting at with the original comment he quoted is that you can say that Jackson is a very good player without it meaning that johnson is a bum thats no good. when discussing two productive players, saying one is more talented doesnt mean that the other isnt also very talented. I get that, but at the same time you have to understand this is a thread about bringing in another highly paid premiere player at the same position and its going to garner comparisons. If we did not have Woods, then different discussion. But with us using a high pick on Woods and Goodwin last year (and both showing they can play and need to be on the field), adding D Jax makes the conversation about Stevie almost a necessity. And within that conversation you will have people high on Stevie and low on Stevie...both sides can make a case. PS: To be clear, I am not advocating either way. Was just saying that its pretty hard to avoid talking about Stevie if we bring in another highly paid player at his position. PPS: My official stance on D Jax...I would rather not sign him as I feel like Goodwin is a similar player and cheaper with no character concerns. He's just younger, but has the potential to be just as good IMO. If we do, great...but my preference is not to so we can save the cap space to resign guys like Dareus and Spiller. Draft is deep in WR if we want to add another one. Edited March 31, 2014 by Alphadawg7
Jamie Nails Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 Two teams (not the Redskins) supposedly "deep" in negotiations with him: http://espn.go.com/n...-desean-jackson My 2 Cents: This is a complete ploy by his agent to drive up the asking price. The Bills aren't going to bite and get into a bidding war. They have a price, may have already offered and will stand pat. Let Washington get into cap hell if they so choose.
Canadian Bills Fan Posted March 31, 2014 Author Posted March 31, 2014 If we dont sign him I wont be upset at all. If we sign him I will be happy and pleasently surprised. Its a win/win for me CBF
Alphadawg7 Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 If we dont sign him I wont be upset at all. If we sign him I will be happy and pleasently surprised. Its a win/win for me CBF Im with you on this...although I still prefer to not sign him just so we can save the cap space for our own guys coming up on FA this next year. Plus Goodwin IMO has a similar skill set and potential to be as good as D Jax. Doesn't mean he will be, but he has that kind of talent IMO and I would rather spend time trying to develop him before sinking a bunch of money into a character risk case.
RyanC883 Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 There are plenty of fans who felt getting rid of marshawn was a mistake, especially for those reasons. I think many Seattle fans would agree that it was a stupid move. Almost as stupid would be to assume you know a man's character based on a string of unproven rumor and accusation coming from one shoddy article. You mean NJ.com is not the most reputable news source?!? I don't trust NJ. teams playing there with NY in the name, eagles fans living there. If we dont sign him I wont be upset at all. If we sign him I will be happy and pleasently surprised. Its a win/win for me CBF Same here. And I like Goodwin, but here is a guy who has done what we hope Goodwin can do. Also, no reason we can't have him on the field with Goodwin, SJ3, and Evans!! Yeah, try covering that. As an aside, I wonder if SJ3 being from the bay area could help lure D. Jax here?
Jamie Nails Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 You mean NJ.com is not the most reputable news source?!? I don't trust NJ. teams playing there with NY in the name, eagles fans living there. Same here. And I like Goodwin, but here is a guy who has done what we hope Goodwin can do. Also, no reason we can't have him on the field with Goodwin, SJ3, and Evans!! Yeah, try covering that. As an aside, I wonder if SJ3 being from the bay area could help lure D. Jax here? The only song that Jackson has on his Iphone right now, is "Must be the Money" by Deon Sanders. And like a good Metallica fan, nothing else matters.
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 is it possible to argue that jacksons better without putting down stevie? and i take some issue with the second half of the statement i quoted, as i simply dont think its true and that you are twisting stats. you can select ANY 3 year stretch in jacksons career, and only 1 of those runs doesnt have more yards than stevies BEST 3 consecutive seasons, every single season desean has played he has had more YPC than stevies best season --- i find it hard to argue that stevies 3 years are MUCH better than any stretch jacksons had Stevies best 3 years: 3123 yards at 13.1 ypc and 23 total tds Deseans best 3: 3173 receiving yards at 19 ypc, 781 punt return yards, 282 rushing yards, 24 total tds That's kinda the point. I like consistent players. Desean will have a good year and then an average one. He's not consistent with his play and his behavior. No doubt about it, he's one of the most explosive players in the league. But he's also one of the msot self centered. He's not call MeSean Jackson for nothing. I love his talent, I hate his attitude. In football more than any other sport, you need guys with the right attitude. It isn't just about talent IMO.
BigBuff423 Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 If we dont sign him I wont be upset at all. If we sign him I will be happy and pleasently surprised. Its a win/win for me CBF +1
Beerball Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 Its a win/win for me CBF As a Bills fan this could be a first!
NoSaint Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 (edited) That's kinda the point. I like consistent players. Desean will have a good year and then an average one. He's not consistent with his play and his behavior. No doubt about it, he's one of the most explosive players in the league. But he's also one of the msot self centered. He's not call MeSean Jackson for nothing. I love his talent, I hate his attitude. In football more than any other sport, you need guys with the right attitude. It isn't just about talent IMO. oh i understand the feeling. it may sound like im campaigning for him but hes definitely a "let the front office investigate and make the call" type of player for me. i just didnt like that it seemed like you were playing a bit loose with the comment that stevies 3 seasons were much better than deseans, when in actuality youd be hard pressed to convince me they were better than any 3 of deseans (even if you go non-sequentially, as long as you account for the trip to IR in 2012 shortening that one a little). even if you compare the two in their injury shortened seasons, desean had more yards in less games. it really seems his inconsistency on the field is limited to a range of very good to great. and i like stevie Edited March 31, 2014 by NoSaint
papazoid Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 (edited) Report didn't sink DeSean; His exit was sealed Because despite the three Pro Bowls and world-class speed, Jackson didn't fit Kelly's vision of a team ambassador. Not with a substandard work ethic, a core of friends who invited danger, and the likelihood of another contract dispute on the horizon. http://www.csnphilly.com/football-philadelphia-eagles/report-didnt-sink-desean-his-exit-was-sealed?p=ya5nbcs&ocid=yahoo Edited March 31, 2014 by papazoid
Pills -N- Bills Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 Those of you saying that we already have a player with his skill set in Marquise Goodwin. Goodwin isnt Desean Jackson. Yes he has the potential to be but if we sign Jackson he will immediately be the best WR we have on the roster. Its totally obvious that the culture has changed at OBD. In years past you would have NEVER heard the bills interested in Jackson. Half of the people we have signed since Marrone has been here would have never been given a snowballs chance in hell to go to the bills. Whaley and Marrone are ALWAYS looking to upgrade the team no matter what the situatiuon is. Im happy with the Bills even kicking the tires on Jackson.
John from Riverside Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 I have nothing against DJ being here.....half the team doesnt live in the area anyway right? And I love Goodwin.....but dont want to see the team start to lean on him as a every down playmaker.
YoloinOhio Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 (edited) % chance you think of DeSean Jackson signing with the Bills......... for me 25% CBF I saw on Twitter that Vegas actually has odds on where he will land and has Buffalo at 20%. SB Nation NFL @SBNationNFL 3h Vegas is giving Washington 2/1 odds to sign DeSean Jackson. OAK 3/1, SF & BUF 5/1, NJY 7/1, SEA 10/1 Edited March 31, 2014 by YoloinOhio
Mark Vader Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 I saw on Twitter that Vegas actually has odds on where he will land and has Buffalo at 20%. SB Nation NFL @SBNationNFL 3h Vegas is giving Washington 2/1 odds to sign DeSean Jackson. OAK 3/1, SF & BUF 5/1, NJY 7/1, SEA 10/1 Those are better odd than I thought.
Sumin Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 Exactly when did I talk about Fitzpatrick's cap hit. Must have missed that one. And yea. Ill cut our so called best receiver to replace him with a better one. In a heartbeat. Jackson changes the face of your offense. Take a look at what James lofton did for the Bills in the early ninties. Made defenses respect the threat of the deep ball. The importance of a home run hitter cant be understated. Especially when you run the ball well. Where not talking about Jerry Rice here. Were talking about a possession receiver who is lucky to crack the top twenty in yardage when he's on his game. He doesn't change an offense. Desean Jackson does. As for all the other comments I don't care if its risky. We haven't made the playoffs in 14 years. We can miss them just as easily without Stevie as we can with him. I want a superbowl. Your not gonna win it with guys who drop game winning touchdowns(steelers)game, have key fumbles at the worst possible time (falcons game) and rarely if ever show up with a dominating performance (7 catches for 60 yards against Revis isn't my definition of a dominating performance). Really dont understand why everyone is getting there underwear in such a bunch. You people related to Stevie? Dont worry. If he gets cut, hell get overpaid somewhere else. Probably be the best thing for him. Dareus and Fitzpatrick, while you specifically did not mention them, are examples of ways of thinking common to your way of thinking. I'm glad you're giving EJ time too, as that is pragmatic You still haven't addressed what the harm is in keeping Stevie. OKAY, so let's for a minute say that Jackson is better than Stevie. I can listen to that argument. So because Jackson is better than Stevie we should cut a talented receiver in Stevie and just hope that Woods and Goodwin elevate their game? Speed is important. We already have one threat in Goodwin and the reason why I'm still open to adding Jackson is the fact that Graham hasn't emerged. So you could have 1 big "go up and get it" WR like Evans, 2 speedy guys (one who has injury concerns) and 2 possession receivers who play very similar, and that in my opinion would significantly bolster this WR group. Then eventually, it may improve to the pointy where we don't need Stevie, but at this point... we do. The Bills spend, in the league, one of least amounts of money on skill positions. We can afford to keep them both, money is not an issue here. If we cut Stevie we are unnecessarily creating a hole. You plan for the worst, not for the best. One might say, well, Stevie is overpaid for his output. Stevie brings a veteran presence to this team and will help Woods and Goodwin emerge. I also think we, as fans, hate on the guy too much. His mistake in the Atlanta and Pittsburgh game from years ago are unacceptable mistakes. I hope he turns it around next year and we should give him that chance. Additionally, we are also sacrificing size in doing so, which is not what Whaley is envisioning according to his latest statements. Sure, id love to add Jackson, but that doesn't change our WR or TE plans in the draft. We need to help EJ and give him time as you were saying Sorry if I came off as sarcastic and rude, but I've heard this argument many times and it is as flawed as an argument can be. Feel free to counteract my points though, I enjoy a good discussion.
DOGNESS Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 If we dont sign him I wont be upset at all. If we sign him I will be happy and pleasently surprised. Its a win/win for me CBF Im in the same place as you.
DOGNESS Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 (edited) Dareus and Fitzpatrick, while you specifically did not mention them, are examples of ways of thinking common to your way of thinking. I'm glad you're giving EJ time too, as that is pragmatic You still haven't addressed what the harm is in keeping Stevie. OKAY, so let's for a minute say that Jackson is better than Stevie. I can listen to that argument. So because Jackson is better than Stevie we should cut a talented receiver in Stevie and just hope that Woods and Goodwin elevate their game? Speed is important. We already have one threat in Goodwin and the reason why I'm still open to adding Jackson is the fact that Graham hasn't emerged. So you could have 1 big "go up and get it" WR like Evans, 2 speedy guys (one who has injury concerns) and 2 possession receivers who play very similar, and that in my opinion would significantly bolster this WR group. Then eventually, it may improve to the pointy where we don't need Stevie, but at this point... we do. The Bills spend, in the league, one of least amounts of money on skill positions. We can afford to keep them both, money is not an issue here. If we cut Stevie we are unnecessarily creating a hole. You plan for the worst, not for the best. One might say, well, Stevie is overpaid for his output. Stevie brings a veteran presence to this team and will help Woods and Goodwin emerge. I also think we, as fans, hate on the guy too much. His mistake in the Atlanta and Pittsburgh game from years ago are unacceptable mistakes. I hope he turns it around next year and we should give him that chance. Additionally, we are also sacrificing size in doing so, which is not what Whaley is envisioning according to his latest statements. Sure, id love to add Jackson, but that doesn't change our WR or TE plans in the draft. We need to help EJ and give him time as you were saying Sorry if I came off as sarcastic and rude, but I've heard this argument many times and it is as flawed as an argument can be. Feel free to counteract my points though, I enjoy a good discussion. I actually dont think there is harm in keeping stevie. My basis for suggesting he may be released is founded in reports last year that there is some sort of personality clash between Marrone and Johnson. That Marrone is somewhat preturbed with the on field antics, sideline temper tantrums, and work ethic away from the field. From what ive heard the team is questioning whether or not they are getting their 6.5 million a season in value out of him. If he had D. Jax type numbers it would probably be a lot less of an issue. But not all coaches and players get along. It seems like the team is determined to add another stud receiver whether its through the draft or by signing a guy like Jackson. I think they are just looking to upgrade the position and if they do, I dont see them keeping a guy around at 6.5 mill thats probably going to see his number of targets drop during games. Its nothing against Stevie. I think hes very good. I dont think hes great(Calvin Johnson is great. ) If they get a player who they think is an upgrade, I think he takes Stevies spot. Desean Jackson is an upgrade. Hes a more explosive player. Woods could catch 80 balls underneath if Jackson and Goodwin are creating space with the threat of the deep ball. Johnson cant do that(create space for the other receivers). Hes the underneath guy. i dont think you keep Woods and johnson. i think they are similar players. And I dont think the Bills are going to pay two guys big money at that position. Just my read on things. No inside info on that last point. Edited March 31, 2014 by DOGNESS
Sumin Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 I actually dont think there is harm in keeping stevie. My basis for suggesting he may be released is founded in reports last year that there is some sort of personality clash between Marrone and Johnson. That Marrone is somewhat preturbed with the on field antics, sideline temper tantrums, and work ethic away from the field. From what ive heard the team is questioning whether or not they are getting their 6.5 million a season in value out of him. If he had D. Jax type numbers it would probably be a lot less of an issue. But not all coaches and players get along. It seems like the team is determined to add another stud receiver whether its through the draft or by signing a guy like Jackson. I think they are just looking to upgrade the position and if they do, I dont see them keeping a guy around at 6.5 mill thats probably going to see his number of targets drop during games. Its nothing against Stevie. I think hes very good. I dont think hes great(Calvin Johnson is great. ) If they get a player who they think is an upgrade, I think he takes Stevies spot. Desean Jackson is an upgrade. Hes a more explosive player. Woods could catch 80 balls underneath if Jackson and Goodwin are creating space with the threat of the deep ball. Johnson cant do that(create space for the other receivers). Hes the underneath guy. i dont think you keep Woods and johnson. i think they are similar players. And I dont think the Bills are going to pay two guys big money at that position. Just my read on things. No inside info on that last point. Couple points.. I know Stevie has had his bonehead moments.. but I would argue that DeSean Jackson has had more, and now there is this issue of his involvement in gangs. I know, he may not be in one or affiliated but the fact remains that this question is out there and must be considered. Additionally, the Eagles have consistently talked about DeSeans "me first" attitude, lack of work ethic, and we know that DeSean will holdout if he feels he is under compensated. He was paid I think 9-10 mill last year and is looking for about the same. That type of investment could haunt this team if it turns sour. I know we as fans are impatient and would want the team to make risks.. but I want them to take calculated, weighted risks. If Marrone has problems with a more benign Johnson, then can we expect from Jackson and Marrone in terms of a relationship? Marrone needs to do a better job of controlling his players instead of creating rifts, otherwise talents like Jackson will never be considered by the Bills. Jackson/Britt > Graham in a heartbeat. In cutting Stevie you are, in dead money, losing what you would pay a draft pick. It makes sense to just pay a few extra million to have the guy. Even if he wasn't in the starting lineup due some regression or injury problems, it's good to have that insurance in case something goes awry. Stevie at this point has probably reached his full potential. I would argue that with his injuries and the QB conundrum it is tough to assess whether he has regressed significantly enough. That's why I'm willing to pay Stevie another year and see what he has too offer. We can do this much. Dude was great a couple years back. If we were in a sticky cap situation, I might agree with you on really considering Stevie's value to the team. Then after a season the FO reflects on what he brought to the team in 2014-2015. I agree with you on the premise that Woods and Johnson are very similar. We as fans constantly hear that it takes 2-3 years as a WR to blossom, so I think we could do with both for at least this year. Next year around this time we could consider cutting Stevie if Woods has shown he is capable of taking his spot. I think Woods is a gamer, but I can't be convinced based on one season, like I cannot be convinced that EJ will not be successful based on his injury plagued rookie season. It's your personal opinion that the Bills won't pay big money for two WR talents. I can accept your opinion, but I will offer this. We have all of our TEs on peanuts. We have a QB without a mega contract and a bunch of mid round WRs. We've placed so much emphasis on defense. In order to become a more balanced team, we need to value offense more. In this draft, I could see the bills improving the following slots in order of necessity: OL, WR/TE, QB. If the Bills truly want to draft BPA and want DeSean Jackson and are willing to ignore baggage, they will pay both Jackson and Stevie. That would provide the Bills with so much leverage to go BPA. That being said, however, I doubt the Bills can get a deal done with Jackson. I could see Britt signing with Bills as being more likely.
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