26CornerBlitz Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 (edited) If the study is over a long period, (10 years) don't you think a good starter would still materialize eventually? I'm not saying you don't build a good football team, but the NFL is still a QB driven league and If you don't have one, Somehow, someway, you better go out and get one... finding a good starter at the QB position? I respectfully disagree... I repeat, drafting 1st round QBs in consecutive years is a horrible idea IMO. It's just not the way you develop the QB position. You especially don't do this for a question mark prospect like Manziel. It's not as if there will be no more QBs coming in future drafts. Next year's draft has some really good QB prospects coming like Mariota, Winston, and Hundley. Dream on, the Bills will not be getting your Savior. Edited March 31, 2014 by 26CornerBlitz
RuntheDamnBall Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 finding a good starter at the QB position? I respectfully disagree... You're asking them to bet against themselves and their own evaluation of first-round talent, a year later. And this to draft a guy that is no sure thing for a number of reasons. I think that's what 26CB is getting at. It's bad form to run a football team like you don't know what you're doing year to year. This year it's "we've got our man," and next year it's "no, wait, this is the guy!" That kind of uncertainty will create divisions among teammates, the coaching staff, the front office, and the rest. If you want to know why I get suspicious of JF and his fans, it's because when all else fails, people default to evaluations like "he just has 'IT'" or "he passes the eye test," or "he's a winner." These are findings that are really grounded in past results that aren't necessarily predictive of future success -- and not in the factors that scouts tend to measure. Good scouts are breaking things down into categories that rarely get discussed on a football message board. JF may have all of the right tools according to some of these scouts, but if that's the case, I'd like to see those scouting reports, and not simply the enthusiasm borne of some excellent and exciting college football performances. The list of "fiery" guys who turned out to be losers, or guys who "had a will to win" in college that evaporated in the pros is long. The list of quiet winners and people who grew to become champions is also long. Please consider this.
NoSaint Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 If the study is over a long period, (10 years) don't you think a good starter would still materialize eventually? are you meaning that if we take a first round qb every year for 10 years eventually we are bound to get one?
Donald Duck Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 are you meaning that if we take a first round qb every year for 10 years eventually we are bound to get one? no, I mean your comment didn't make much sense to me long term.
NoSaint Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 (edited) no, I mean your comment didn't make much sense to me long term. that if we draft a qb this year instead of, say, a wr.... we end up with EJ and Johnny splitting reps, and one of them getting almost no reps come september and we take a potential asset away from whoever wins the camp battle all as reasons that 50-50 might not be an accurate assessment to go on, since no one else in the sample had a similar situation that could be considered to the detriment of the qbs chances? essentially, if you believe in a guy enough to spend the pick, maximize his chances before bringing in the next guy, and ideally in doing so you have set the table well for the next guy even if the first ends up flopping. Edited March 31, 2014 by NoSaint
Donald Duck Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 that if we draft a qb this year instead of, say, a wr.... we end up with EJ and Johnny splitting reps, and one of them getting almost no reps come september and we take a potential asset away from whoever wins the camp battle all as reasons that 50-50 might not be an accurate assessment to go on, since no one else in the sample had a similar situation that could be considered to the detriment of the qbs chances? essentially, if you believe in a guy enough to spend the pick, maximize his chances before bringing in the next guy, and ideally in doing so you have set the table well for the next guy even if the first ends up flopping. You made a suggestion that the overall success rate would drop by not giving the proper supporting cast. I'm suggesting in a 10 year study a good starter at the QB position would still materialize eventually.
Alphadawg7 Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 You made a suggestion that the overall success rate would drop by not giving the proper supporting cast. I'm suggesting in a 10 year study a good starter at the QB position would still materialize eventually. Why would we draft a first round QB this year? EJ was the guy they hand picked. EJ showed enough potential last year to warrant further development. The offense has a lot of holes and injuries it dealt with last year. Why not to draft a QB early this year: 1. We have a guy to develop who has as much upside as any guy in this draft. 2. Rookie QB's RARELY have a great rookie year, so all these people down on a rookie QB are premature. 3. EJ has intangibles not found in every player in terms of leadership and confidence. 4. There are NO Andrew Lucks in this drafts and they ALL have major question marks. 5. Tim Tebow was the best college QB ever, yet he sucks in the NFL and can't get a job. Meet Johnny Manziel. Just because he was electric in college does not mean he's the next big thing in the NFL. In fact, there are many who feel he's a 3rd round prospect. NO ONE ever thought that of Luck or RG3. He may end up being the next big thing, but he's no lock to be and has plenty of question marks, including character. Now, that does not mean the Bills won't draft a QB in round 1, but I highly doubt they do. Not to mention, having TWO young QB's competing for the starting positions will negatively effect both their development. Young QB's NEED as many reps as possible. Having two splitting reps deep into preseason isn't going to do either any favors. There will be QB's who are just as good as the ones in this draft NEXT year. Again, no slam dunks this year, so why prematurely bring in another one when we could use this deep draft to shore up areas that will help the QB position? Like it or not, this is EJ's year to boom or bust...and he earned it by showing enough last year despite getting hurt and playing on a team decimated by injuries (all his RB's, all his WR's, and his TE's all were hurt last year, not to mention his OL injuries and terrible OG play).
BetterNextYearRight? Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 I expect Manziel to bust, the SEC is the best conference in NCAA but the NFL is still a huge step up in terms of speed, defensive schemes and physicality. After watching most of his games, I'd be willing to say Mike Evans made him. He threw so many errant passes his way that would be pick-sixes against NFL cb's. Predict he will come into the NFL and get his face blitzed off, he won't have nearly the amount of time in the NFL to make plays as he was given at A&M. He sort of fits the Kaepernick/Wilson comparisons, but is much less physically gifted. Really think this year DCs will adapt to the read option game and shut it down. Willing to bet Bridgewater has the best rookie season by far but both Carr and Bortles have better careers. Boyd ,Murray McCarron and Stephen Morris all look like at least decent backup/projects and Connor Shaw could be okay in the right system
Alphadawg7 Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 (edited) I expect Manziel to bust, the SEC is the best conference in NCAA but the NFL is still a huge step up in terms of speed, defensive schemes and physicality. After watching most of his games, I'd be willing to say Mike Evans made him. He threw so many errant passes his way that would be pick-sixes against NFL cb's. Predict he will come into the NFL and get his face blitzed off, he won't have nearly the amount of time in the NFL to make plays as he was given at A&M. He sort of fits the Kaepernick/Wilson comparisons, but is much less physically gifted. Really think this year DCs will adapt to the read option game and shut it down. Willing to bet Bridgewater has the best rookie season by far but both Carr and Bortles have better careers. Boyd ,Murray McCarron and Stephen Morris all look like at least decent backup/projects and Connor Shaw could be okay in the right system I agree with pretty much everything you said here about Manziel Edited March 31, 2014 by Alphadawg7
26CornerBlitz Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 Completely legitimate question with such a clean pocket: @PriscoCBS And the reason for the falling-back jump pass is what?
Mr. WEO Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 Completely legitimate question with such a clean pocket: @PriscoCBS And the reason for the falling-back jump pass is what? Here's a whole video to give a better idea of what he does (although your single frame argument is pretty persuasive summary of his season). What we see: him scrambling out of necessity as his (loaded with top 10 draft picks) O-line protection breaks down. What we don't see: all of his passes are "jump balls to Evans". Most hit him (and others) in stride.
26CornerBlitz Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 Here's a whole video to give a better idea of what he does (although your single frame argument is pretty persuasive summary of his season). What we see: him scrambling out of necessity as his (loaded with top 10 draft picks) O-line protection breaks down. What we don't see: all of his passes are "jump balls to Evans". Most hit him (and others) in stride. I know, he's the perfect QB prospect with absolutely no flaws coming into the NFL and he'll completely revolutionize the position like no other before him.
Doc Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 He had the best LT/OL, available in the draft. And his RT is pretty good as well. Not sure blaming his OL is the wisest move.
Mr. WEO Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 I know, he's the perfect QB prospect with absolutely no flaws coming into the NFL and he'll completely revolutionize the position like no other before him. Not quite. He had the best LT/OL, available in the draft. And his RT is pretty good as well. Not sure blaming his OL is the wisest move. It helps to watch the games doc. He was on the move out of necessity often. And that's where his value is. He can get out of trouble. Also very accurate--even on the run. This was also seen in his pro day.
26CornerBlitz Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 It helps to watch the games doc. He was on the move out of perceived necessity often. And that's where his value is. He can get out of trouble. Also very accurate--even on the run. This was also seen in his meaningless pro day. Fixed that for you as in quite often he bails from the pocket too quickly.
mannc Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 WEO, there is no point arguing. Just bookmark these anti-JFF posts for future use.
26CornerBlitz Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 WEO, there is no point arguing. Just bookmark these anti-JFF posts for future use. Just like the Tebow crowd saved all of the anti-Tebow posts. Haven't seen any of those brought back and don't expect to.
FireChan Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 Just like the Tebow crowd saved all of the anti-Tebow posts. Haven't seen any of those brought back and don't expect to. If only we took Tebow. Maybe we'd have a playoff win.
mannc Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 Just like the Tebow crowd saved all of the anti-Tebow posts. Haven't seen any of those brought back and don't expect to. Sorry, two completely different players.
26CornerBlitz Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 Sorry, two completely different players. I agree with that, but the same kind of unwarranted hype. If only we took Tebow. Maybe we'd have a playoff win. Doubt it very seriously. But thanks for the
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