bobobonators Posted March 27, 2014 Posted March 27, 2014 Even though on some big boards he isn't even in the top 10 players in the draft, if a team that actually needs a QB passes on him,the Bills who actually don't need a QB should take him over players they may have rated higher, that they actually need? Or they are uncivilized? I see. It is a moot point, but I don't agree. I think he may be a good NFL QB, but if the people paid to make those decisions don't feel he is worth taking that high, I don't see a reason to argue with that. You assume we dont need a QB. Therefore its pointless to have this discussion bc of that fundamental disagreement. The majority of people didnt think EJ was a 1st round QB, but here we are. Should we argue about that? =)
papazoid Posted March 27, 2014 Posted March 27, 2014 i'm not on the johnny football bandwagon. his 3/4 release is low and will get blocked at the line of scrimmage. he can't read defenses fast enough at the NFL level. his fight or flight instincts will get him killed. having said all that, he helped himself today. which is good for the bills as we need two QB's to go in the draft before we pick.
YoloinOhio Posted March 27, 2014 Posted March 27, 2014 (edited) You assume we dont need a QB. Therefore its pointless to have this discussion bc of that fundamental disagreement. The majority of people didnt think EJ was a 1st round QB, but here we are. Should we argue about that? =) I don't think we need to draft one, correct. More importantly, I don't think he is the BPA at 9 if available. I would like to see our QB with Manziel's WR though! Edited March 27, 2014 by YoloinOhio
Beerball Posted March 27, 2014 Posted March 27, 2014 I don't think we need to draft one, correct. More importantly, I don't think he is the BPA at 9 if available. I would like to see our QB with Manziel's WR though! The Buddy Nix school of QB drafting doesn't work. You can't value a QB the way you value other players in the draft. I don't believe for a minute that the Bills had Manuel rated as the 15th best player last draft, but that's were they picked him because they finally realized that the Nix way doesn't work.
YoloinOhio Posted March 27, 2014 Posted March 27, 2014 The Buddy Nix school of QB drafting doesn't work. You can't value a QB the way you value other players in the draft. I don't believe for a minute that the Bills had Manuel rated as the 15th best player last draft, but that's were they picked him because they finally realized that the Nix way doesn't work. I agree, and of course that is why the Bills took EJ at 16 last year. They needed a QB. This year they don't. They will take the BPA. IMO, the BPA isn't Manzeil at 9, if he is there. If you think the Bills are in the same situation they were last year, because EJ is not a factor going forward, then your opinion would certainly differ and his value would be higher because he is a QB.
Beerball Posted March 27, 2014 Posted March 27, 2014 I agree, and of course that is why the Bills took EJ at 16 last year. They needed a QB. This year they don't. They will take the BPA. IMO, the BPA isn't Manzeil at 9, if he is there. If you think the Bills are in the same situation they were last year, because EJ is not a factor going forward, then your opinion would certainly differ and his value would be higher because he is a QB. Pardon me, 16. You keep saying that the bills don't need a QB like it's a fact. It's your opinion and one that's shared by many, but, still an opinion stated as fact. You believe that the Bills will take the BPA (again, stating opinion as fact)? Then the draft will be pretty easy. Make a list of the 10 best players coming out & let me know who the Bills will pick.
YoloinOhio Posted March 28, 2014 Posted March 28, 2014 Pardon me, 16. You keep saying that the bills don't need a QB like it's a fact. It's your opinion and one that's shared by many, but, still an opinion stated as fact. You believe that the Bills will take the BPA (again, stating opinion as fact)? Then the draft will be pretty easy. Make a list of the 10 best players coming out & let me know who the Bills will pick. I actually did say it was my opinion, when asked originally if I was assuming they didn't need one. I said I did not think they did. That would be my opinion. The Bills indicated they planned to take their BPA, not me. The Bills said they will not be taking a QB, not me. So unless they are conducting a smokescreen with that statement, I expect they will take their BPA, and without access to their Big Board, which is individual to each team, or the knowledge of what each team ahead of them will do, I don't believe I could let you know who they will pick. Each big board is specific to each team.
RealityCheck Posted March 28, 2014 Posted March 28, 2014 Even though on some big boards he isn't even in the top 10 players in the draft, if a team that actually needs a QB passes on him,the Bills who actually don't need a QB should take him over players they may have rated higher, that they actually need? Or they are uncivilized? I see. It is a moot point, but I don't agree. I think he may be a good NFL QB, but if the people paid to make those decisions don't feel he is worth taking that high, I don't see a reason to argue with that. How do you know where Manziel ranks on any team's draft board? I am a skeptic of the guy based on size only. I admit it. But at the same time the kid has magic to his game. Someone will pick him early and it will make sense. If he drops to 9 I would understand why they would or wouldn't pick him as he is such an incredible wild card. It would certainly speak to the philosophies of the GMs that pass on him until he is picked. For me, if I wasn't prejudiced against his size I think he is the man. But again, his size is really what I hold against him if I were a GM. I can't wait to see where he goes and how it goes as he is such a rare cat. I agree that I don't see the Bills picking him if he is available, but then again I think he's the first QB off the board. Some GM in the top 8 will be sold on the kid, and why not? This kid is THE wild card at QB as of now.
NoSaint Posted March 28, 2014 Posted March 28, 2014 Pardon me, 16. You keep saying that the bills don't need a QB like it's a fact. It's your opinion and one that's shared by many, but, still an opinion stated as fact. You believe that the Bills will take the BPA (again, stating opinion as fact)? Then the draft will be pretty easy. Make a list of the 10 best players coming out & let me know who the Bills will pick. I feel like he has said repeatedly that if it's your opinion we do need one it makes sense, implying that his stance is likewise his opinion. Just my take, which is roughly what I agree with. Unless you have ruled ej out, get him whatever you can to succeed and if it doesn't work out you have that piece to help your rookie qb next year.
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 28, 2014 Posted March 28, 2014 Friggin love this guy, who else has the balls to do that ... um nobody. Guy is a total leader, just before he starts he tells everbody what he is about to do and everyone automatically circles around like sheep to listen to the MAN! Haha. What a man! Running away from brooms!!! Throwing to uncovered Wrs!!! The guy has the BB, Mike Vick, & George W bush sign of approval. How can he fail!!! You assume we dont need a QB. Therefore its pointless to have this discussion bc of that fundamental disagreement. The majority of people didnt think EJ was a 1st round QB, but here we are. Should we argue about that? =) Who are the majority of people? Mel Kiper, Todd McShay. You have zero idea how actual NFL teams had him ranked.
Beerball Posted March 28, 2014 Posted March 28, 2014 I feel like he has said repeatedly that if it's your opinion we do need one it makes sense, implying that his stance is likewise his opinion. Just my take, which is roughly what I agree with. Unless you have ruled ej out, get him whatever you can to succeed and if it doesn't work out you have that piece to help your rookie qb next year. I surely do not read every post on the board, but I do read the ones where someone responds to me. When that response is something I feel like commenting on I do. This one did and so I did. The post I quoted didn't have any "I think's" or "IMO's". It did however say the Bills don't need a QB and that they would take the BPA. When I pointed these things out I think I was given a bunch of disclaimers in the response I received, could be wrong though. (JMO of course)
KOKBILLS Posted March 28, 2014 Posted March 28, 2014 I don't think we need to draft one, correct. More importantly, I don't think he is the BPA at 9 if available. I would like to see our QB with Manziel's WR though! Amen to that... And most importantly...The Bills are not taking a QB whether they need one or not...So...
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 28, 2014 Posted March 28, 2014 EJ is lacking arrogance, but to be nice I like to say that he lacks trust in his own abilities. Because he doesn't trust his abilities he doesn't put the ball where it needs to be. (he takes the safe route) Johnny Football on the other hand has an arrogance, not unlike Jim Kelly once upon a time. He believes that there isn't a situation he can't overcome. He'll take chances, and yes, sometimes he'll lose but, I guaran!@#$ingtee that he's coming out the very next series and he's going to go for it again. What would you rather have, a QB who never takes chances or one who never stops believing that he can find a way to win the game? If Manziel is there at #9 the Bills would be silly to let him pass them by. Um, didn't Jim Kelly basically start the Bickering Bills and nearly destroy the Bills of the 90s before they really got started? And Kelly was 6'3" built like a LB with a cannon for an arm. Manziel is built like a hobbit. Dude does dominate brooms, I'll give him that.
Beerball Posted March 28, 2014 Posted March 28, 2014 Um, didn't Jim Kelly basically start the Bickering Bills and nearly destroy the Bills of the 90s before they really got started? And Kelly was 6'3" built like a LB with a cannon for an arm. Manziel is built like a hobbit. Dude does dominate brooms, I'll give him that. Will you accept Brees as an example?
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 28, 2014 Posted March 28, 2014 Will you accept Brees as an example? Sure even though Brees was a much better pocket passer coming out of college. Honestly, no one has any idea. Personally, I think he reeks of being a spoiled brat. He put up #s in the same offense that made Case Keenum college's all time leading passer. He played behind 2 tackles who are top 10 picks & threw jump balls to a 6'5" top 10 wr. I can't see him lasting as a starter in the NFL. But that's just my opinion. One of the many great college players who isn't NFL caliber. Nothing wrong with that & he'll make millions. But time will tell.
YoloinOhio Posted March 28, 2014 Posted March 28, 2014 How do you know where Manziel ranks on any team's draft board? I am a skeptic of the guy based on size only. I admit it. But at the same time the kid has magic to his game. Someone will pick him early and it will make sense. If he drops to 9 I would understand why they would or wouldn't pick him as he is such an incredible wild card. It would certainly speak to the philosophies of the GMs that pass on him until he is picked. For me, if I wasn't prejudiced against his size I think he is the man. But again, his size is really what I hold against him if I were a GM. I can't wait to see where he goes and how it goes as he is such a rare cat. I agree that I don't see the Bills picking him if he is available, but then again I think he's the first QB off the board. Some GM in the top 8 will be sold on the kid, and why not? This kid is THE wild card at QB as of now. I don't of course - I was actually referring to the published "Big Boards" like Walter Football (12), CBS Sports (18), and SI (15). I was responding to those who felt it would be outlandish for the Bills not to select him at 9. I didn't know why it was outlandish if some of the so-called experts don't even have him ranked that high. That's all. I actually think he will be a good NFL QB.
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 28, 2014 Posted March 28, 2014 Will you accept Brees as an example? Sure even though Brees was a much better pocket passer coming out of college. Honestly, no one has any idea. Personally, I think he reeks of being a spoiled brat. He put up #s in the same offense that made Case Keenum college's all time leading passer. He played behind 2 tackles who are top 10 picks & threw jump balls to a 6'5" top 10 wr. I can't see him lasting as a starter in the NFL. But that's just my opinion. One of the many great college players who isn't NFL caliber. Nothing wrong with that & he'll make millions. But time will tell.
Beerball Posted March 28, 2014 Posted March 28, 2014 Sure even though Brees was a much better pocket passer coming out of college. Honestly, no one has any idea. Personally, I think he reeks of being a spoiled brat. He put up #s in the same offense that made Case Keenum college's all time leading passer. He played behind 2 tackles who are top 10 picks & threw jump balls to a 6'5" top 10 wr. I can't see him lasting as a starter in the NFL. But that's just my opinion. One of the many great college players who isn't NFL caliber. Nothing wrong with that & he'll make millions. But time will tell. No, we're (I'm) talking chutzpah, panache, attitude. Manziel like many recent QB's breaks the mold. Don't try to categorize him, you'll fail. He's uniquely different.
NoSaint Posted March 28, 2014 Posted March 28, 2014 Sure even though Brees was a much better pocket passer coming out of college. Honestly, no one has any idea. Personally, I think he reeks of being a spoiled brat. He put up #s in the same offense that made Case Keenum college's all time leading passer. He played behind 2 tackles who are top 10 picks & threw jump balls to a 6'5" top 10 wr. I can't see him lasting as a starter in the NFL. But that's just my opinion. One of the many great college players who isn't NFL caliber. Nothing wrong with that & he'll make millions. But time will tell. In a twist returning to the debate a few pages back- brees did well at his proday, but bombed pretty terribly at the combine and didnt do well on some team visits too - just came to mind with his mention. He missed a lot of throws badly at the combine
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 28, 2014 Posted March 28, 2014 In a twist returning to the debate a few pages back- brees did well at his proday, but bombed pretty terribly at the combine and didnt do well on some team visits too - just came to mind with his mention. He missed a lot of throws badly at the combine Good memory. It's probably worth nothing that Brees has played in SD and in a dome in NO. He struggles outdoors. For those wanting Manziel, his arm is not made for Buffalo. I know people want to give up on EJ but the man has a cannon. I highly doubt JF is completing half of those passes EJ did in the 2nd Jets game. For JM to succeed, he needs to go to a place that had ideal conditions and a coach that will let him freestyle.
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