So...What happens next?

[Best Player Available]

Not selling out is not selling out. It's bad PR to have blacked out games in November.

It's even worse when there is nothing to play for in November (ie playoffs)

When teams suck stuff happens ask the lakers baby. When they suck for 14+ years things get really dicey.

 

Footballs lowest revenues is ticket sales. The best? Suites, and TV.

The bigger question someday will be. Can the fanbase in WNY handle the huge ticket price increase? Since new ownership won't be buying the team to keep the fans in their almost free rockpile seats as currently priced. The owners need to immediately start seeing some ROI since the people loaning money aren't in it for charities. Ralphs 25K investment allowed the team to keep prices in line with the horrible WNY economy. Imagine the empty seats in Buffalo if Jerrah like prices were charged for admission.

 

Besides the team isn't going anywhere. And certainly low ticket sales for games after the yearly playoff elimination will have little to no effect on the buyers negotiations. Most likely a complete hosing of the current OBD FO staff and then hopefully a team dedicated to winning would solve that pesky empty seat problem in November. Being up to 20 million under the cap has more than made up for the lost revenue,and some empty seats.

 

That longstanding Littmann mindset is pure cream for the franchise. Cannot wait for him to be gone.

[Chef Jim]

I think your thinking to much about selling out the games. The NFL makes the majority of its money on TV deals.

 

Fortunately, the Bills finished 11th in the NFL last year in terms of TV market. Thats pretty freaking good for a small market team on a 14 year bender. This should be the basis of your argument. They Bills are in the top 1/3 of the league in terms of TV market, the support for the Bills is there.

 

Good point. I think it's safe to say the majority of Bills fans don't live in WNY anymore but boy do we (well not me) support the team buy buying ****.

[PromoTheRobot]

Good memory -- we only sold 75,000 seats and it was -10 degrees and people will warned to stay indoors -- come on, you can do better

 

Do we have to pull up the weather forecasts for every playoff game? The famous comeback game was very mild, like in the mid-40's. People just wrote the team off. It wasn't the weather.

[GA BILLS FAN]

Do we have to pull up the weather forecasts for every playoff game? The famous comeback game was very mild, like in the mid-40's. People just wrote the team off. It wasn't the weather.

So, PTR, you are now arguing that Buffalo fans don't support the team, don't pull a John Kerry and flip flop on us? I was at most of those late December and playoff games and I'd be shocked if there were more than a handful of empty seats.

[PromoTheRobot]

So, PTR, you are now arguing that Buffalo fans don't support the team, don't pull a John Kerry and flip flop on us? I was at most of those late December and playoff games and I'd be shocked if there were more than a handful of empty seats.

 

1992 AFCC final vs Denver. Ch.2 buys the last 2,000 tix to avoid a blackout. Houston comeback game in 1993 was blacked out. 94 AFC championship game vs the Chiefs, RW had to buy the last 5,000 seats to avoid a blackout.

 

Our history fo supporting the Bills has been good but not as great as some people think., Outside of Buffalo many media feel we can't support the Bills. Now we are on the clock: T-minus 6 years. Put up or wave bye bye.

Edited March 26, 2014 by PromoTheRobot

[GA BILLS FAN]

1992 AFCC final vs Denver. Ch.2 buys the last 2,000 tix to avoid a blackout. Houston comeback game in 1993 was blacked out. 94 AFC championship game vs the Chiefs, RW had to buy the last 5,000 seats to avoid a blackout.

So, selling 75,000-78,000 is not supporting the team ? Sorry, this glass is HALF FULL, Buffalo fans have supported this team.

[PromoTheRobot]

So, selling 75,000-78,000 is not supporting the team ? Sorry, this glass is HALF FULL, Buffalo fans have supported this team.

 

If you can't sell out a playoff game what does that say?

[NoSaint]

the biggest issue of course not being our 1993 attendance, but that 54k vs the dolphins just a couple months ago isnt a great look (especially given ticket prices).

 

while it may not be the best financial indicator it sure is one that makes an emotional argument. empty seats are bad, and full stadiums are harder to steal teams from. not impossible, but it certainly makes it harder to trot out the "dont worry about buffalo - those guys dont even attend the games" card. while i often disagree with PTR, on this point ill throw backing his way. no pointing fingers, or blaming or anything coming from me, but a full stadium is the biggest thing the fan base can possibly do for the next few years.

[SDS]

The talk about support and selling out is quaint when ticket prices are in the range of lunch for two at Red Robin.

 

When seats bottom out at $200 a pop we can talk about meaningful support in today's NFL.

[GA BILLS FAN]

If you can't sell out a playoff game what does that say?

Your being too negative -- you say the Bills couldn't sell out a playoff game, I say, they sold 78,000 tickets --- probably, at the time, more than any other team in the playoffs --- plus, you are talking about a situation that happened over 20 years ago ! What Bills fans have done the past 14 years is support the team more than anyone would have expected given just how crappy the on the field product has been. I don't agree with buying tickets to try and impress a new owner, however, because I don't think it will matter.

 

Does anyone know if it is true that Littman is in charge of the estate ?

[PromoTheRobot]

Your being too negative -- you say the Bills couldn't sell out a playoff game, I say, they sold 78,000 tickets --- probably, at the time, more than any other team in the playoffs --- plus, you are talking about a situation that happened over 20 years ago ! What Bills fans have done the past 14 years is support the team more than anyone would have expected given just how crappy the on the field product has been. I don't agree with buying tickets to try and impress a new owner, however, because I don't think it will matter.

 

Does anyone know if it is true that Littman is in charge of the estate ?

 

Everyone will believe what they want. You think showing up for games doesn't matter. I think it does. We'll just have to leave it at that.

[Wayne Cubed]

The talk about support and selling out is quaint when ticket prices are in the range of lunch for two at Red Robin.

 

When seats bottom out at $200 a pop we can talk about meaningful support in today's NFL.

 

This is where I'm at as well. While the support on an emotional level is there for sell out's of the Ralph, it wouldn't be there financially, which is what a buyer may be looking at and why to move.

 

And as I mentioned before, support comes in all levels. Bills fan were supportive enough to make Buffalo games the 11th largest TV viewing last year in the NFL. Top 1/3 of the league in TV market, where the NFL makes it's money. Thats big, for a small market team that isn't winning a whole lot of games.

 

I'm not saying fan's shouldn't go to games and the Bills shouldn't try to sell out, because every little bit helps, but I'm of the opinion keeping them tops in the league in terms of TV market is more important.

[Kirby Jackson]

the biggest issue of course not being our 1993 attendance, but that 54k vs the dolphins just a couple months ago isnt a great look (especially given ticket prices).

 

while it may not be the best financial indicator it sure is one that makes an emotional argument. empty seats are bad, and full stadiums are harder to steal teams from. not impossible, but it certainly makes it harder to trot out the "dont worry about buffalo - those guys dont even attend the games" card. while i often disagree with PTR, on this point ill throw backing his way. no pointing fingers, or blaming or anything coming from me, but a full stadium is the biggest thing the fan base can possibly do for the next few years.

I will also jump behind PTR on this one. Every potential owner is well aware of the revenue potential that RWS gives off. Stability is much more appealing to a new owner than a half empty stadium. Not to burst anyone's bubble but the "we will support a winner" in December argument carries less than zero weight with potential owners. It is important that the stadium be full all the time if you want to make relocating the team a difficult decision for not only the new Bills owner but also the current NFL owners.

[GA BILLS FAN]

Everyone will believe what they want. You think showing up for games doesn't matter. I think it does. We'll just have to leave it at that.

Buffalo fans have nothing more to prove. That's my point.

[thebandit27]

This is where I'm at as well. While the support on an emotional level is there for sell out's of the Ralph, it wouldn't be there financially, which is what a buyer may be looking at and why to move.

 

And as I mentioned before, support comes in all levels. Bills fan were supportive enough to make Buffalo games the 11th largest TV viewing last year in the NFL. Top 1/3 of the league in TV market, where the NFL makes it's money. Thats big, for a small market team that isn't winning a whole lot of games.

 

I'm not saying fan's shouldn't go to games and the Bills shouldn't try to sell out, because every little bit helps, but I'm of the opinion keeping them tops in the league in terms of TV market is more important.

 

Actually, if you look at the NFL's Rules for franchise relocation, it's quite clear that fan support plays a role in the consideration of approving a relocation:

 

http://www.leg.state.mn.us/webcontent/lrl/issues/FootballStadium/NFLFranchiseRelocationRules.pdf

[Wayne Cubed]

Actually, if you look at the NFL's Rules for franchise relocation, it's quite clear that fan support plays a role in the consideration of approving a relocation:

 

http://www.leg.state...cationRules.pdf

 

Interesting. But it does state in a previous paragraph under the "Prior to League Consideration":

 

In evaluating a proposed franchise relocation and making the business judgment inherent in such consideration, the membership is entitled to consider a wide range of appropriate factors. Each club should consider whether the League’s collective interests (which include, for example, the League’s television interests,

 

My point was to more of a new owner seeing the viability of keeping the team in Buffalo. The topic you are referring to is when it comes to the league making a decision. Which, I tend to believe, the league wouldn't get the 24 votes needed.

 

And like I said I still think people need to go and sell the games out.

[thebandit27]

Interesting. But it does state in a previous paragraph under the "Prior to League Consideration":

 

 

 

My point was to more of a new owner seeing the viability of keeping the team in Buffalo. The topic you are referring to is when it comes to the league making a decision. Which, I tend to believe, the league wouldn't get the 24 votes needed.

 

And like I said I still think people need to go and sell the games out.

 

Oh I didn't mean that to contradict your point; just an axillary

[Wayne Cubed]

Oh I didn't mean that to contradict your point; just an axillary

 

[FLFan]

The talk about support and selling out is quaint when ticket prices are in the range of lunch for two at Red Robin.

 

When seats bottom out at $200 a pop we can talk about meaningful support in today's NFL.

This is exactly right. To keep the team in Buffalo, we are talking about a $1B investment or more, depending on the new owner's share of any new stadium or major stadium upgrades. Assuming the economics can be made to work at all, it will require a much more expensive game experience for the fans. I would expect PSL's, and ticket prices at least double what they are today. This also assumes that suites will be able to be effectively marketed.

 

The Bills are not on the same economic plane as the rest of the NFL right now. The other owners are not at all concerned with loyalty to Buffalo. They are concerned with maximizing the value and revenue stream, in which they share, for every NFL team. Now that Ralph is gone, the last impediment to maximizing the value of the Bills franchise for the general benefit of the other 31 owners is gone.

 

Mr. Wilson held back this rising tide for a long time, and for that we owe him. Whatever happens from here on out, he did his part. From now on the other stakeholders in the Buffalo Bills will need to step up their game. The State and County will need to be firmly committed. Our US Senators and Congressmen will need to engage. For that they will look to the political support of the people - are people demanding it? Are they willing to pay for it in terms of extra fees, taxes, etc? Are they willing to be vocal about their support? Finally, the fans will need to continue to support the franchise. A half empty stadium even once per year will be a convincing argument for moving the team.

 

If all these things come together, then the Bills may very well be secure for the long term. If not, enjoy it while it lasts. Either way, in my opinion, Mr. Wilson's legacy is secure. He did his part.

[Sisyphean Bills]

an argument could then be made that he could have done a deal to keep the team in buffalo before his demise.

 

The point is pretty simple. Things change. Since "the plan", if it exists, isn't a matter of public record, I'll take evaluation of it, both praise and condemnation, at face value: an opinion on the internet.