yungmack Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 So, are the "white" sports about to make a move up? Golf, Tennis, maybe even hockey? White people pretty much dominate X-Games. White people sure love the stupid cross-fit and Spartan Races and Warrior dashes and Zombie runs too. I think the NFL has a long way to go before it trends down. Kids may stop playing, but they will end up playing in high school. The best players will still be playing. There is too much money involved here. Some kids that are poor and are great athletes will not be kept out of playing. If you are a dad of a kid with a rocket arm, you will let him play football. You make my point: American kids are migrating to things like the X-Games. As to tennis, it is also dying out among American kids. The decline in quality play by Americans is widely and openly discussed (really, the top players are nearly all non-American and in the "up and coming" range, there are none). Many formerly big time tennis tournaments in the US have either been shuttered or moved offshore. I would question your faith that kids will still play in high school. Or that football is the best sport for a kid to make money. Baseball provides a cautionary tale: inner city kids long ago abandoned it in favor of football and basketball. For those who succeed at basketball, the money is hugely better than in football without the attendant risks. And from a money standpoint, if you have high-end ability, baseball is much more financially attractive than football, with the added bonus that you will likely live a healthy life afterwards. And personally, if it was my kid with that rocket arm, I'd steer him into baseball rather than football because top tier pitchers make much more money over their careers than even the very best paid professional QBs. BTW, I am not saying that football will disappear, only that it will "revert to the mean," which I think is already happening. There will always been kids who prefer it to other sports, and fans who love it. But if I was approaching it as an investment, I would rate it a "mature industry" and not a growth one: profits going forward are likely to have more to do with inflationary increases than with growth of the market.
Mark Vader Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 Money is the ruiner of all things good. Football for me is almost unwatchable. 1:00 games used to be over by 3:40- now they last until 5 because all the added commercials trying to sell you **** you don't need. And they crank the volume for the commercials, making surround sound unlistenable. I used to go to a lot of Bills games, but there was a gap when I didn't see any for many years. Well I couldn't believe how much standing around between plays there was due to all the commercials. There is no flow. I watch champions league soccer- and it is a superior product IMO because there is flow. Then there is the pussification and desecration of the game. First no wedges. In the grasp. Moving kick off up. Defenseless receiver. RB can't lower head. Excessive fines. Etc. The NFL was a beautiful game. I have no idea how anyone could !@#$ it up. But they have I find this statement to be quite ironic. Considering that several years ago "casual" NFL fans complained that the game was too slow. That's when the NFL decided to "speed up" the game by having the play clock run more. But then this would lead to more and more TV timeouts and longer commercial breaks. How exactly did this speed up the game?
Security Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 You make my point: American kids are migrating to things like the X-Games. As to tennis, it is also dying out among American kids. The decline in quality play by Americans is widely and openly discussed (really, the top players are nearly all non-American and in the "up and coming" range, there are none). Many formerly big time tennis tournaments in the US have either been shuttered or moved offshore. I would question your faith that kids will still play in high school. Or that football is the best sport for a kid to make money. Baseball provides a cautionary tale: inner city kids long ago abandoned it in favor of football and basketball. For those who succeed at basketball, the money is hugely better than in football without the attendant risks. And from a money standpoint, if you have high-end ability, baseball is much more financially attractive than football, with the added bonus that you will likely live a healthy life afterwards. And personally, if it was my kid with that rocket arm, I'd steer him into baseball rather than football because top tier pitchers make much more money over their careers than even the very best paid professional QBs. BTW, I am not saying that football will disappear, only that it will "revert to the mean," which I think is already happening. There will always been kids who prefer it to other sports, and fans who love it. But if I was approaching it as an investment, I would rate it a "mature industry" and not a growth one: profits going forward are likely to have more to do with inflationary increases than with growth of the market. All the top American pitchers throw their arms out. If towards baseball, it would be for me as a long term team utility player that can hit a little an play a lot of positions. Marco Scutaro, Mark DeRosa, these guys play forever and have made a lot of money. Baseball is not that attractive, in reality, the "college" years are in the minor leagues, although you are being paid, at least. Baseball is harder than football to make it, it just is. It takes more skill to make it to top level, and less athleticism. For basketball, it takes skill, but seriously, there are not many under 6 foot guys in the NBA, where as, the NFL calls the 6 foot guy who plays WR or RB a skill position player.
MrLocke Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 I know my point about it being wide open had nothing to do with what Cuban said just my personal opinion. I actually love wide open football. I live in Canada and the CFL uses really wide field. It's wide open though because of the field, not because the dbs are treated unfairly like I believe they are in the NFL. If the trend continues I believe purists will get frustrated. Again maybe the league's bread & butter is the casual fan and not purists.
reddogblitz Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) I have kind of thought this for a while also. Where is the saturation point as to what people will or are willing to pay for football? It's getting pretty expensive already and has been for a while. At what point to do your fans feel fleeced? Not yet evidently. But the NFL is in a big cash grab and could be seen as gougers before too much longer. New stadiums at tax payer expense every 25 years. Ticket prices that most fans can't afford. NFL Sunday Ticket to watch games if you suffer from DFS (Displaced Fan Syndrome). Escalating prices for jerseys and stuff. More and more commercials on TV. At what point does the NFL price itself out for most people? As a fan it feels like I'm being fleeced with the more commercials and higher prices for everything to line the pockets of owners. The whole Nike uniform thing I predict is another cash grab. Teams like the Seahawks and Jacksonville and now Bucs that go with the new Nike designed uniforms will come out with new uniforms every 4 or 5 years to spur sales. From the college experience we know that the novelty wears off fast unless you come out with new uniforms every week. The biggest problem for the NFL now though is the head injury thing. They have to figure out how to manage this without turning the NFL into the NFFL (National Flag Football League). This probably even more than greed could cause the downfall or at least marginalization of professional football. Edited March 24, 2014 by reddogblitz
Buftex Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 I think the NFL has a long way to go before it trends down. Kids may stop playing, but they will end up playing in high school. The best players will still be playing. There is too much money involved here. Some kids that are poor and are great athletes will not be kept out of playing. If you are a dad of a kid with a rocket arm, you will let him play football. I just don't see that. If kids parents won't let them play when they are in little leauges, the interest in the sport will diminish some, with the next generation.
gobillsinytown Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 Sounds like Mark is upset about one of two things: 1. Not being mentioned by the major news agencies for a while, or 2. He wanted to buy an NFL team and wasn't able to do it. I don't think the NFL is going anywhere. The league certainly has its challenges, but it will adapt to them. If Mark thinks that an NFL implosion is going to be good for his, or anyone else's, sport he's mistaken. The implosion of the NFL would result in the loss of significant revenue for the cities that host NFL franchises, the loss of significant revenue for players who want to play football professionally, and large losses in the advertising, merchandising and clothing industries. Typical shoot-from-the-hip comment by a guy who's known for running his mouth before he thinks. Besides.....he's a billionaire. Maybe he's getting too fat?
Buftex Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) Sounds like Mark is upset about one of two things: 1. Not being mentioned by the major news agencies for a while, or 2. He wanted to buy an NFL team and wasn't able to do it. I don't think the NFL is going anywhere. The league certainly has its challenges, but it will adapt to them. If Mark thinks that an NFL implosion is going to be good for his, or anyone else's, sport he's mistaken. The implosion of the NFL would result in the loss of significant revenue for the cities that host NFL franchises, the loss of significant revenue for players who want to play football professionally, and large losses in the advertising, merchandising and clothing industries. Typical shoot-from-the-hip comment by a guy who's known for running his mouth before he thinks. Besides.....he's a billionaire. Maybe he's getting too fat? #3- The NFL going to CBS (as opposed to the NFL Network) in the fall for Thursday night games is going to likely cut deeply into the NBA's Thursday Night double headers on TNT. Who is shooting from the hip again? Edited March 24, 2014 by Buftex
Security Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 #3- The NFL going to CBS (as opposed to the NFL Network) in the fall for Thursday night games is going to likely cut deeply into the NBA's Thursday Night double headers on TNT. Who is shooting from the hip again? I would still flip channels. They just need to put Miami at OKC, and San Antonio at Portland, and I will flip, if the NFL gives me Miami at Cleveland. I like the NFL better, that will be what I would watch as the base, but they would not keep me the whole time without a good match up. Also, I like being married, I can't watch sports all the time on Thursday nights.
billsfan89 Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 The NFL is in a bubble right now, its inflating its self by adding those Thursday games, and it won't be long before they do Saturday games on top of that. Within 3 years you could have games on Thursday, Saturday, Sunday (From 1 p.m till 11 p.m.) and Monday. That's 4 days a week with football. Right now the demand is there but how long before it gets overexposed? Once the NFL hits its saturation point it will have to dial back one or two of its TV packages. I don't think the NFL will fall in popularity but they are pushing their limits and pretty soon they are going to see where the saturation point is. I think the NFL should abandon the Thursday games and just do Saturday games after Thanksgiving. But what they should do and what's good for business are two different things.
bbb Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 The concussion thing is what is going to knock the NFL off it's pedestal. But, I have to say that the Thursday night games just are too much for me. One of the reasons that NFL got so popular was because less is more.
billykaykay Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 Metz, you know the answers to all those questions. The rule changes are to give the perception that the league is really concerned about player safety (rather than impending and continuing law-suits), and the other stuff is all about selling merchendise. I think Cuban is right. As an NBA owner, he is obviously concerned with the NFL's seeming obessession with having football every night of the week. The NBA has carved out a nice niche for itself in the pro-sports world, and the NFL is obviously threatening that. But, I will be honest. Unless the Bills are playing, I have no real interest in Thursday Night football. I am starting to lose interest in Monday Night Football as well, unless it is the Bills. What used to make the NFL so awesome, in part, was that it was so limited...one day a week, and one game on Monday night. Now, everything is so constant and so accessible, it is taking some lustre off the game. Outside of watching your own team, the hook to watch the rest of the games is gambling & Fantasy Football.
reddogblitz Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 Outside of watching your own team, the hook to watch the rest of the games is gambling & Fantasy Football. I don't do either. But I do watch the rest of the games because I like NFL football.
machine gun kelly Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 This is a business and for those of you in a leadership position in business, the job of any company is to draw a profit, adapt, and continue to innovate. The NFL Is not going to implode and Cuban has an agenda. The teams and league continue to find new ways to grow it's MS. There are no signs at all of flattening out, if you look at profitability, growth, new emerging markets, and a pipeline for growth 5-10 years out. Why is fantasy football the #1 fun act in America at this point. If the CBS deal is so bad, why did the NFL network grow so much after they started playing TR games? They are doing nothing but growing their footprint. It's a business. What sport is growing to take over the NFL? None. I understand the nostalgic look at the past NFL, but again this is a business. It's role is to evolve like in any other space. Those that do not die. Look at IBM. They almost dies until they innovated. Look at how Microsoft almost killed Apple and inched them to a system for artistic persons who focus on graphics. Now look at Apple. It is the greatest success story of the last decade. They didn't jump the shark. They innovated. Some people may not like it, but you can bet there will be games again in Mexico, Europe, and god forbid a potential team in Toronto. The best thing for Buffalo is how poorly the Toronto experiment went. Anyway, I love the growth market and love that most games were decided by 3 pts or less. Would you rather go back to the 49ers in the old days beating teams by 30 pts? How exciting was this Superbowl? It sucked. It was the worst in a decade. Ifar prefer the Steelers / Cardinals where the Steelers won in the last seconds of the game. BTW - I was pulling for the Cards. I just love the excitement of the game.
Buftex Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 Outside of watching your own team, the hook to watch the rest of the games is gambling & Fantasy Football. Not for me. Up until a few years ago, I rarely missed a nationally broadcast NFL game... since I was about 10, long before Fantasy Football. You don't really even need to watch football to play FF. And, I have not wagered on a game in probably about 20 years...I just like the game. However, I am sure there is merit to what you say.
Meark Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 The NFL will completely jump the shark for me if they put a team in Mexico or Europe. That will be the beginning of the end as far as I'm concerned. This.
Fan in San Diego Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 I agree with the sentiment that things trend up and down. Here's my different take, Thursday, Sunday and Monday games are mostly watched by fans of the two teams. If Buffalo or San Diego is not playing on those nights, I don't watch the game. I think the allure of prime time games on those night are for fans of the teams playing to watch the game after work and party with their friends.
zonabb Posted March 25, 2014 Posted March 25, 2014 Cuban get slammed by those covering the NFL for making such statements but that means little, those people will always protect the golden goose. People unfortunately aren't willing to think long term, most American's in fact can't... they don't save money, don't plan for their kids college (it's why every college kid is in debt, their parents waste their money in the American consumptive lifestyle instead of saving it), they smoke, they drink, they overeat. As a country we're hogs. That culture is perpetuated by corporate American and the NFL. The NFL is chasing the 18-34 demographic.... young, not forward thinking, not saving money, buying NFL gear (how many 35+ year olds do you see wearing some man's name on his back?), not having kids that take away from their distractions.... So that's great, so long as that demographic stays interested.... The interest part of the key here... when I was growing up here, it was Bills and Sabres. But now little soccer is more popular than little league football. That will have ripple effects for the NFL and they likely know it given their desire to grow overseas because they will reach a plateau here. The NFL has some major flaws 1) it thinks it can't do any wrong 2) it thinks no other sport is worthy of watching 3) it's players are generally unlikable, 4) has no desire for consistency or heritage in its game, constantly changing rules it can't interpret, and 5) believes in its own manifest destiny. But here's the thing with the NFL and people over 35 like me.... we can't relate to the NFL. All my friends, many who were diehard NFL junkies in high school and college, just don't care. After a while, you get disgusted with the constant greed and ignorance of players. Sports were a welcome respite from everyday life, but now the NFL is everyday life... today Jerry "Trump" Jones wants money back from a player... after literally taking millions in taxpayer handouts for his stadium. Guess the only ones allowed to rob anyone are owners. We have a player getting stabbed, and he's from here. A tough guy punched his fiancee's lights out, literally, and dragged her into and out of an elevator and his team today is said to be "backing him aggressively"... of course, the dollar matters, not having any class, respect, or dignity. When I was young, my dad watched the BIlls and I looked up to the players. Now my friends with sons don't let them watch the NFL... from the constant boner ads and beer sales to the antics of the players its hard to watch and to teach your kids to have class and respect when you have coaches and players acting like aholes yelling at refs, standing over fallen players, screaming into the cameras. Do you think for one second this microcosm of American culture will be welcome and supported in England, France, Spain, Germany? Uh no... And you know, there are alternatives believe it or not. I see little kids wearing international soccer jerseys now and hear parents talking about the English Premier League. It's becoming a popular sports and I for one have begun to get up early on the weekends to spend two hours before noon watching a match instead of having 4 hours of my Sunday wasted. But Cuban is spot on, the league is more interested in money and growth (I guess billions in owner profit every year still isn't enough) and eventually that'll be its downfall. Just imagine this sports with teams overseas, 7:30 a.m. start times, ads all over jerseys, no kickoffs, the removal of all small market teams (forget history and heritage, that don't make money!)..... all great empires fail. The American empire will be over by the end of the century and soccer will take over America before the NFL takes over the world. In 32 NFL cities we don't believe it but if you don't have a home team and its not part of your local culture, it's easy to ignore and walk away from when you get bored or turned off. So when the Bills leave (book it, they're gone.... the almighty dollar wins not history and heritage), there is nothing the NFL offers to keep me interested. My interest has severely waned and I only care because it's part of my local culture.
Recommended Posts