White Linen Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 I'm pretty sure that the Bills couldn't trade EJ for another team's #1 pick this year... so I'll say he'd be drafted on Day 2, maybe early Day 3. You're right but I don't think that necessarily means anything. You couldn't get a first round pick for most QB's after their rookie year. Brees, Rodgers, etc.
Mr. WEO Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 It's actually the intangibles that he's missing. He has the tangibles IMO. He looks the part, but it's the subtle things that he has difficulty with. He's also missing one key ingredient that top QB's have...swagger. Because he doesn't have that swagger he doubts himself and he doubts his receivers. If the Bills can figure out how to fix his mechanics & give him a swagger injection we may have something. JK had swagger, probably in HS, definitely in college and definitely in the pros. Marino...swagger Brady...swagger. And, yes, to step on the field when Bledsoe was injured and take that team to the playoffs he had swagger. We may not have known it but his teammates did. Montana, Manning, P., Young, S., Farve, Brees, Elway...all overflowing with swagger. EJ seems like a fine, polite young man. I'm hoping that what I'm calling swagger is something that can be gained through small successes leading to bigger successes etc. (I suppose that another term would be self confidence, maybe overwhelming self confidence) Bingo.. Common RtDB, don't put words in my mouth. I gave you examples on one side of the equation, of course there are those on the opposite side. Put our very own JP Losman in that category. I don't know if it can be learned, but, I hope it can. I don't think it can. But he may become more confident anyway. The game is way to fast for him. Hopefully it slows down some this year.
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 That goes without saying. EJ is the most talented qb in NFL history. He would have went before Elway, and if this was 1983 he would have been the first qb off the board. Given the above, why bring in competition, right? Sounds good. Can I have dibs on predicting that EJ is a lock for the hall of fame, or are you already on that? I'll bet you $1000 if you find one post where I've once said EJ is a lock to be our franchise qb. Or is this silly hyperbole to justify the 13 year old mindset of giving up on a 22 year old after one season? But to my original point, compare EJ's combine & measurables to this year's class & tell me where he ranks.
K-9 Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 I'll bet you $1000 if you find one post where I've once said EJ is a lock to be our franchise qb. Or is this silly hyperbole to justify the 13 year old mindset of giving up on a 22 year old after one season? But to my original point, compare EJ's combine & measurables to this year's class & tell me where he ranks. Nobody in this year's class, to date, has had as good a postseason as EJ Manuel did last year. From the Sr. Bowl, to the combine, and then through his pro day, Manuel charted a steady rise and was a lock to go somewhere after the 20th pick in the draft by the time it arrived. I don't care what any of the detractors around here say or what guys like Cosell had to say last year, nor do I put ANY stock into the report that the Cowboys gave him a 4th round grade. It was pretty much unanimous in the scouting world. EJ didn't possess the college CAREER credentials and that is a legitimate concern vs. Bridgewater and Manziel. Indeed, it's the most important consideration. But to date, they haven't impressed since. GO BILLS!!!
NewEra Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 (edited) I love how people take guys like Kiper & Mayock's draft boards as gospel. It's their opinions & they have 0 first knowledge of what NFL teams' draft boards look like. EJ is as talented, if not more, than every qb in this draft. In your opinion. I think all 3 of these guys are more talented when throwing the ball than Ej. Yeah, he's bigger. Might be a little faster. But he's less accurate and much less "talented" when reading a defense than all of them. Not to mention, they haven't had 3 knee injuries in 1 football season. Oops, I mentioned it. Edited March 23, 2014 by NewEra
NewEra Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 I'll bet you $1000 if you find one post where I've once said EJ is a lock to be our franchise qb. Or is this silly hyperbole to justify the 13 year old mindset of giving up on a 22 year old after one season? But to my original point, compare EJ's combine & measurables to this year's class & tell me where he ranks. His combine and measurables....lol. How about his arm and ability to read defenses. How does Ej compare to Peyton, Brees, Brady and almost every QB in the hall of fame when you look at combine and measurables? Yeah.
agardin Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 Agreed. Both have prototypical size, but are/were raw prospects that have to learn how to read defenses. EJ is a better runner, Bortles is better at buying time in the pocket. I saw more bad habits with EJ in college than Bortles. He looked like he had lost those early in the season, but they crept back as the season went on. A healthy offseason will go a long way toward showing us what we have in him. This season will be telling. Bortles has a lot to learn and prove, but his upside is high. Every QB in this draft has flaws. EJ would be right in the mix and would be a 1st or 2nd round pick in this year's draft. Last year was a sparse year for QB prospects and that drives up value, but some team would have liked him and taken a shot at getting him somewhere in that range. I agree, I know it's crazy but EJ might be the first QB off the board in this draft. Everyone coming out this year has their detractors. I saw some glimpses of a legit NFL QB from EJ last year. Yes they were few and far between but there nonetheless. I am cheering for Manziel and I hope he does well but I can see why some don't like him. Same for the rest of the top rated QB prospects coming out this year. I, like the Bills, are all in with EJ this year. Let's hope it works out.
LB3 Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) In your opinion. I think all 3 of these guys are more talented when throwing the ball than Ej. Yeah, he's bigger. Might be a little faster. But he's less accurate and much less "talented" when reading a defense than all of them. Not to mention, they haven't had 3 knee injuries in 1 football season. Oops, I mentioned it. Manziel (one of the three you're referencing) and reading defenses in the same sentence is funny. The kid is definitely exciting and can make plays out of nothing, but read defenses better than EJ? Not so much. Edited March 24, 2014 by KikoSeeBallKikoGetBall
NewEra Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 Manziel (one of the three you're referencing) and reading defenses in the same sentence is funny. The kid is definitely exciting and can make plays out of nothing, but read defenses better than EJ? Not so much. We shall see.
thronethinker Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 My opinion of EJ is he is injury prone and makes bad decisions. Against Cleveland last season, being directly warned by Cleveland's D that they would be looking to hurt him, he scrambles and stays inbound and takes the injuring hit. Well in my book that makes him a dumbass. He had the first down, just go out of bounds. Instead he misses weeks of game time and the season is done. I guarantee EJ will not last the season.
Doug Flutie Band Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 I'm not an expert, but there's no one in the draft that I've seen that is clearly better than EJ.
thewildrabbit Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 I don't remember saying anything about their first seasons, but, thanks for providing perspective though none of what you said has anything to do with how those QB's felt about their abilities or their persona. Maybe I'm older than you, but, I can tell you that Montana never doubted his abilities. As someone who lived in Northern California during the Montana/Young years I can also say the same thing about Young. At the same time you'll never find a more polite person than Young but he was brash, he was sure of himself. I'd say Manning is similar to Young. I hope EJ can develop that same feeling. Until he trusts himself to make the throws (how many times last season did we see him try to guide the ball?) and trusts his receivers to be where they are supposed to be (if they aren't he'd better give them a piece of his mind) he'll struggle to achieve consistent success. BB my point was confidence comes with success, no matter how small the success is that first year. I have seen flashes of great in EJ last year, and how far / fast he develops in the future will depend on the team around him. Let's face it, that team around EJ was pretty bad last year. Rookie coaches, lousy O line, rookie receivers, injured veteran WR's, new scheme, some questionable play calling, and when you run up the middle 71% of the time you become predictable. Jim Kelly didn't step into stardom his first years because he had to wait for Polian / Levy / to build a team around him, and for Ted Marchibroda to work his magic with the offensive scheme. The spread offense with the old Redskin "counter trey" running scheme allowing Thurman Thomas to make his famous cutbacks. Then running the hurry up / no huddle K-gun offense to perfection. We all knew how good Kelly was because of his play at the "U", and with "mouse" Davis in the USFL, and that didn't translate into wins in the NFL right away. 4-12, 7-8 his first two years.
ganesh Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) This was suppose to be a great draft for QBs. At the start of the college season, it was Bridgewater, Boyd and Manziel. Bortles kind of comes out of nowhere. Boyd plummets. Some mocks have have Bridgewater and Maziel dropping. I'm not sold on Bortles, funny. Don't forget about Murray. He was a consensus top-5 pick until his injury. My question is: Why are people so down on Murray. Teams have drafted injured players like McGahee in the 1st round and let them heal. Why wouldn't teams do the same with Murray especially in this rookie-cap-friendly era. If I were the Bills, I will definitely take a flyer on him at the top of the draft. Edited March 24, 2014 by ganesh
RuntheDamnBall Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 Don't forget about Murray. He was a consensus top-5 pick until his injury. My question is: Why are people so down on Murray. Teams have drafted injured players like McGahee in the 1st round and let them heal. Why wouldn't teams do the same with Murray especially in this rookie-cap-friendly era. If I were the Bills, I will definitely take a flyer on him at the top of the draft. Not in round one. He is not so "can't-miss" as to leave no questions, and the injury knocks the price down for everybody. Drafting McGahee was a dumb move, period, and doing so while his stock was down was worse. I am a fan of Murray but he can be had in R3, possibly later, even with the premium on QBs.
Doc Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 He was as touted as the other guys, who are all slipping. Add in the injury and he's a day 3 pick at best.
K-9 Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 Not in round one. He is not so "can't-miss" as to leave no questions, and the injury knocks the price down for everybody. Drafting McGahee was a dumb move, period, and doing so while his stock was down was worse. I am a fan of Murray but he can be had in R3, possibly later, even with the premium on QBs. I agree about the McGahee pick but I can fully understand why Donahoe did it, if that makes any sense. Before his injury, McGahee was viewed as a generational RB and a top 3 pick in the draft. He was a legitimate sub 4.3 guy, etc. The hope was that he'd return to form, but he was a shadow of his former self. GO BILLS!!!
RuntheDamnBall Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 I agree about the McGahee pick but I can fully understand why Donahoe did it, if that makes any sense. Before his injury, McGahee was viewed as a generational RB and a top 3 pick in the draft. He was a legitimate sub 4.3 guy, etc. The hope was that he'd return to form, but he was a shadow of his former self. GO BILLS!!! It was classic "getting too cute" Donahoe. Looking to get value where the value is questionable. It's as if they thought "we could end up looking real smart, here!" Unfortunately, it was in the dawning days of the discovery that very good RBs can come from anywhere. This was a horrific draft, but Dallas Clark, Eric Steinbach, Asomugha, Boldin, Umenyiora, Jason Witten and Lance Briggs were all taken in the next three rounds. Hell, the Bills would have been better off drafting UNDRAFTED FREE AGENT Tony Romo with their #1 pick.
thewildrabbit Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 It was classic "getting too cute" Donahoe. Looking to get value where the value is questionable. It's as if they thought "we could end up looking real smart, here!" Unfortunately, it was in the dawning days of the discovery that very good RBs can come from anywhere. This was a horrific draft, but Dallas Clark, Eric Steinbach, Asomugha, Boldin, Umenyiora, Jason Witten and Lance Briggs were all taken in the next three rounds. Hell, the Bills would have been better off drafting UNDRAFTED FREE AGENT Tony Romo with their #1 pick. Me personally, I think it was the owner, as Wilson loves him some RB's. OJ, TT, Henry, McGahee, Lynch, Spiller. Don't forget that like Nix, Donahoe was saddled with the Bills scouting dept, and Tom Modrak. I know I have these zany conspiracy theories, but it wouldn't surprise me at all to find that Belicheat / Kraft were bribing Modrak to get it wrong on purpose. Mostly because I just can't fathom a scouting dept missing so badly on so many players for so many years.
Bill from NYC Posted March 24, 2014 Posted March 24, 2014 I'll bet you $1000 if you find one post where I've once said EJ is a lock to be our franchise qb. Or is this silly hyperbole to justify the 13 year old mindset of giving up on a 22 year old after one season? But to my original point, compare EJ's combine & measurables to this year's class & tell me where he ranks. Not so long ago you took a poster to task about perceived insults. You seem to be hurling them about these days. Just something to perhaps consider, ya know? It's ok with me mind you but it is a bit odd. Alex Marvez said the other day that many feel that if Murray would have entered the 2013 draft, he would have been the first QB selected. Go ahead, shoot the messenger.
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