Doc Posted March 18, 2014 Posted March 18, 2014 Yes, but this isn't the only reason my friend. I have a feeling that if he does bump someone in the lineup it won't be the player most would expect. I'm just sayin......... If he does, so be it. Let the best man win. But I think that Gilmore will bounce back this year.
chris heff Posted March 18, 2014 Posted March 18, 2014 I wont speak for Whaley....but maybe they made offers to some other guys and they want to come here? Maybe they felt some other guys were only slightly better then what we have? Maybe they plan on upgrading in the draft from what looks to be a very deep draft for OL? Lets keep in mind that the word on the street is there are gonna be OL starters in the 3rd round of this draft.....and the prevailing thought of the bills is you take OT's in college and move them to guard in the NFL. Also....JJ Unga is a intriging prospect to me......we also made a qualifying offer to another OL that was drafted pretty high by another team. I think the ultimate thing her is Marrone being a OL coach thinks he can dumpster players into serviceable players......I think that happened (and failed) with Colin Brown. I think that this year Marrone was smart enough to at least do it with highly drafted players so you know the athletic ability is there as a foundation. I am totally in wait and see mode. I agree, and I still think they draft two OL. I don't think the Williams signing changed how they approach the draft.
Fixxxer Posted March 18, 2014 Posted March 18, 2014 I definitely don't think it's the bible - hence I was asking for your opinion on their numbers since you seemed to be in the middle of watching the season. Where are you watching? I watch the games on NFL game pass, you can watch them in 3 formats, the TV feed, a condensed feed and the coaches film. I recommend it.
In space no one can hear Posted March 18, 2014 Posted March 18, 2014 The reason I used Losman as an example is because my 10 year old nephew asked Greg if he thought Losman was going to be good. I'm sorry I did not make that clear, after all you were not in attendance that day. I don't claim anyone is beyond reproach, however 28 years in the same profession might indicate that individual had some experience. You are correct, he managed scouts and made recommendations to a GM, Jerry Angelo, who brought him to Chicago from NY. Angelo fired him and others in a job saving attempt . Angelo was eventually fired anyway. I'm unsure of your point, it is obvious that people in professional sports are fired often and move to other organizations. Greg Gabriel's 28 years in the NFL is a pretty good run. When he was fired he decided to retire. It wasn't like there were no offers. Please remember, I know him. So your premiss is that a multi-billion dollar industry is wasting millions paying talent evaluates when all they really need to do is ask astute fans? The reason I used Losman as an example is because my 10 year old nephew asked Greg if he thought Losman was going to be good. I'm sorry I did not make that clear, after all you were not in attendance that day. I don't claim anyone is beyond reproach, however 28 years in the same profession might indicate that individual had some experience. You are correct, he managed scouts and made recommendations to a GM, Jerry Angelo, who brought him to Chicago from NY. Angelo fired him and others in a job saving attempt . Angelo was eventually fired anyway. I'm unsure of your point, it is obvious that people in professional sports are fired often and move to other organizations. Greg Gabriel's 28 years in the NFL is a pretty good run. When he was fired he decided to retire. It wasn't like there were no offers. Please remember, I know him. So your premiss is that a multi-billion dollar industry is wasting millions paying talent evaluates when all they really need to do is ask astute fans? You state "Angelo fired him and others in a job saving attempt" More excuses!! I wouldn't be surprised if these words are from Gabriel himself.( that's his style) Agreed that Angelo was on the hot seat at the time, and a major reason for that was the Bears poor drafting at the time. Did Angelo fire Greg Gabriel to save his job? Gabriel was canned because Angelo was unhappy with his work and felt that the scouting department was in need of revamping. YES ANGELO WANTED TO KEEP HIS JOB DESPERATELY- BUT HE FELT STRONGLY THAT GABRIEL WAS PART OF THE PROBLEM AND NOT A SOLUTION. A fun side note is: Don't assume others on this board don't know Gabriel and others in the Bears organization a bit more than you do. (And not at the level of a friend of their sisters)
chris heff Posted March 18, 2014 Posted March 18, 2014 You state "Angelo fired him and others in a job saving attempt" More excuses!! I wouldn't be surprised if these words are from Gabriel himself.( that's his style) Agreed that Angelo was on the hot seat at the time, and a major reason for that was the Bears poor drafting at the time. Did Angelo fire Greg Gabriel to save his job? Gabriel was canned because Angelo was unhappy with his work and felt that the scouting department was in need of revamping. YES ANGELO WANTED TO KEEP HIS JOB DESPERATELY- BUT HE FELT STRONGLY THAT GABRIEL WAS PART OF THE PROBLEM AND NOT A SOLUTION. A fun side note is: Don't assume others on this board don't know Gabriel and others in the Bears organization a bit more than you do. (And not at the level of a friend of their sisters) So what's the connection?
3rdand12 Posted March 18, 2014 Posted March 18, 2014 If he does, so be it. Let the best man win. But I think that Gilmore will bounce back this year. We shall see how my man Leodis and Gilmore do in Jim's 4-3 wide nine . As i said elsewhere . This could be fun and the secondary be our strongest feature . I also hope Williams Rivers Dickson and that other guy help raise the teams potential , if only by fitting up gaps
Doc Posted March 19, 2014 Posted March 19, 2014 We shall see how my man Leodis and Gilmore do in Jim's 4-3 wide nine . As i said elsewhere . This could be fun and the secondary be our strongest feature . I also hope Williams Rivers Dickson and that other guy help raise the teams potential , if only by fitting up gaps Again, why do you think Jim will run a wide nine? And the other guys will most definitely raise the talent level, save for maybe Rivers, but at worst Lawson will go back to starting at SLB.
3rdand12 Posted March 19, 2014 Posted March 19, 2014 Again, why do you think Jim will run a wide nine? And the other guys will most definitely raise the talent level, save for maybe Rivers, but at worst Lawson will go back to starting at SLB. I dont. its the silliest misconception from the early reviews here abouts . Rivers will become a core ST at least And may well be more than that. Heck Bills think he is a 3 dowm LB. not so sure about that myself. Schwartz is known for developing linebackers, Pepper is also known for that. So is that old guy , whose name everyone should learn . Mr. Pagac
Doc Posted March 19, 2014 Posted March 19, 2014 I dont. its the silliest misconception from the early reviews here abouts . Rivers will become a core ST at least And may well be more than that. Heck Bills think he is a 3 dowm LB. not so sure about that myself. Schwartz is known for developing linebackers, Pepper is also known for that. So is that old guy , whose name everyone should learn . Mr. Pagac Sorry, I'm usually good at picking up sarcasm but the "doh" smilie threw me off. Yeah, I don't see a wide nine except situationally. As for Rivers, what I heard is he'll be the starting SLB. Again I don't know if that's a good idea but I don't get paid to make those decisions and again, at worst, Lawson can be the SLB. I'd be more than fine with a LB'ing trio of Kiko-Spikes-Lawson, but if Rivers can bring something, so be it.
Bill from NYC Posted March 19, 2014 Posted March 19, 2014 (edited) You mean Gilmore or McKelvin? Because obviously you hate them both for being 1st round picks and won't let it go. I am sorry that you had a seemingly bad day yesterday. When you watch Gilmore, I would imagine that you see Mel Blount in his prime (assuming that you have heard of him). I see a player who gets beat often and constantly holds. Can he get better? Sure! McKelvin was VERY good last season after 4 so-so years. Imo, what confuses fans about Gilmore is the way he LOOKS as opposed to the way he plays, and of course his draft slot. Gilmore is a big fast kid, and he looks like he could lift up my car. But he needs to get much better in coverage. First round picks (let alone top 10) are given more opportunities. Someone posted that Mike Williams started 53 games. If Graham is a better player, I hope that he starts. That's all. I am just talking football. In no way did I intend to offend your sense of propriety. If I did so, please forgive me, OK? Edited March 19, 2014 by Bill from NYC
3rdand12 Posted March 19, 2014 Posted March 19, 2014 I am sorry that you had a seemingly bad day yesterday. When you watch Gilmore, I would imagine that you see Mel Blount in his prime (assuming that you have heard of him). I see a player who gets beat often and constantly holds. Can he get better? Sure! McKelvin was VERY good last season after 4 so-so years. Imo, what confuses fans about Gilmore is the way he LOOKS as opposed to the way he plays, and of course his draft slot. Gilmore is a big fast kid, and he looks like he could lift up my car. But he needs to get much better in coverage. First round picks (let alone top 10) are given more opportunities. Someone posted that Mike Williams started 53 games. If Graham is a better player, I hope that he starts. That's all. I am just talking football. In no way did I intend to offend your sense of propriety. If I did so, please forgive me, OK? Gilmore should be challenged as well. I am not sure if his style (press ) hand work ) is reflective of the direction the NFL is headed or not , ala Seahawks et all , or not . But i hope Donnie H can work his Voodoo on Stephon as well as he did Leo and A Williams . Graham is another guy who can play the outside and is just another asset as far as i can guess. : )
HurlyBurly51 Posted March 19, 2014 Posted March 19, 2014 I am sorry that you had a seemingly bad day yesterday. When you watch Gilmore, I would imagine that you see Mel Blount in his prime (assuming that you have heard of him). I see a player who gets beat often and constantly holds. Can he get better? Sure! McKelvin was VERY good last season after 4 so-so years. Imo, what confuses fans about Gilmore is the way he LOOKS as opposed to the way he plays, and of course his draft slot. Gilmore is a big fast kid, and he looks like he could lift up my car. But he needs to get much better in coverage. First round picks (let alone top 10) are given more opportunities. Someone posted that Mike Williams started 53 games. If Graham is a better player, I hope that he starts. That's all. I am just talking football. In no way did I intend to offend your sense of propriety. If I did so, please forgive me, OK?
John from Riverside Posted March 19, 2014 Posted March 19, 2014 You state "Angelo fired him and others in a job saving attempt" More excuses!! I wouldn't be surprised if these words are from Gabriel himself.( that's his style) Agreed that Angelo was on the hot seat at the time, and a major reason for that was the Bears poor drafting at the time. Did Angelo fire Greg Gabriel to save his job? Gabriel was canned because Angelo was unhappy with his work and felt that the scouting department was in need of revamping. YES ANGELO WANTED TO KEEP HIS JOB DESPERATELY- BUT HE FELT STRONGLY THAT GABRIEL WAS PART OF THE PROBLEM AND NOT A SOLUTION. A fun side note is: Don't assume others on this board don't know Gabriel and others in the Bears organization a bit more than you do. (And not at the level of a friend of their sisters) Is there any particular reason you are egging this on space other then just to be "that guy" Just curious
Tipster19 Posted March 19, 2014 Author Posted March 19, 2014 I was thinking more along the lines as a possibility that Graham replaces McKelvin and McKelvin becomes the nickel back. The reason being that this is a passing league and that is why the ROT caught up to the LOT as far as importance. Defenses have become complex and sending more players into the backfield (as in LDEs, CBs and Safeties). McKelvin has sick speed and if we can send him back there for disruption I think that our CBs will be better utilized. Playing our CBs with size in coverage and sending our speed demon to cause kaos would make this a VERY disruptive defense IMO.
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 19, 2014 Posted March 19, 2014 (edited) I am sorry that you had a seemingly bad day yesterday. When you watch Gilmore, I would imagine that you see Mel Blount in his prime (assuming that you have heard of him). I see a player who gets beat often and constantly holds. Can he get better? Sure! McKelvin was VERY good last season after 4 so-so years. Imo, what confuses fans about Gilmore is the way he LOOKS as opposed to the way he plays, and of course his draft slot. Gilmore is a big fast kid, and he looks like he could lift up my car. But he needs to get much better in coverage. First round picks (let alone top 10) are given more opportunities. Someone posted that Mike Williams started 53 games. If Graham is a better player, I hope that he starts. That's all. I am just talking football. In no way did I intend to offend your sense of propriety. If I did so, please forgive me, OK? Actually, I had a terrific day yesterday. How was yours? I've always thought of you as a solid poster but your crusades get old. You're still crying and taking shots about Whitner and he hasn't been on the team in 3 years!!! I get it. Every Bills draft pick should be a linemen and from Alabama. Since I'm younger than you, I had to do a little research to fully apperciate Mel Blount (the internet is wild man!). Blount didn't start his first 2 NFL seasons! http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Mel_Blount So basically if Blount was on the Bills, you'd be calling him a bust and a wasted pick. I've never once said Gilmore would be Mel Blount but to trash him after 2 seasons (one with a lot of promise and another where he had injury - btw, Blount would have been severely hurt if he couldn't use his wrist because he was a very physical cb) just seems silly. But I apologize. Patience is dead. EJ needs to be replaced, Gilmore is about to lose his job, and this year's 1st round pick is on notice. Again Bill, I enjoy your post quite a bit. Just a difference in philosophy. I believe in letting players develop. And believe it or not, the value between a star CB and a star LT isn't as wide as you think. It's a different NFL. Edited March 19, 2014 by C.Biscuit97
chris heff Posted March 19, 2014 Posted March 19, 2014 Jerry Angelo is also out of the league. Just sayin'. I know, my point was that I think guys that had long careers in the NFL, like Angelo, Polian, and Gabriel know more than even the most astute fan. It just seems like a logical premiss. Nobody is right all the time, I get that. I think Graham is a good pick up, he could start, if not adds depth. We learned quickly last year that there was no depth at corner. Williams seems to be the polarizing pick up. He can't possibly be worse than what they had. I was confused by Gaughan column it said Polian didn't like Wiiliams, but ESPN site has Polian grading him as a B. I still think they need to draft somebody to play guard. If Williams ends up as a backup is he over paid? And should I care about that? I know I'm straying from this thread but the guy that I'm most confused about is Rivers. I asked some friends of mine that are Giant fans about him, their response was "who?".
CookieG Posted March 19, 2014 Posted March 19, 2014 I think the ultimate thing her is Marrone being a OL coach thinks he can dumpster players into serviceable players......I think that happened (and failed) with Colin Brown. I think that this year Marrone was smart enough to at least do it with highly drafted players so you know the athletic ability is there as a foundation. I am totally in wait and see mode. Where do people get the idea that Marrone thought he could "coach up" dumpster players? The problem began long before he got here...people said the same thing with Gailey and the offense "oh, he didn't want X or Y, becuse he thought he was smart enough to coach people up". . If anything..a good position coach is going to say..."uh...these guys we have aren't going to cut it." It isn't much different than the plumber telling his customer "this cheap plumbing fixture you bought at Big Lots is going to go bad in a year." But if the customer insists..or only provides that to the plumber...who's to blame when it does go bad? The plumber, or the customer for providing shoddy materials and demanding that they be used? In fact, Marrone was saying he was unhappy with the guard play as early as training camp. And well...he was right. But the idea that he said "don't bring in any linemen, I'll just coach them up"...sorry... I don't see that any more than I saw Gailey saying "nah, don't give me any offensive weapons..I don't need them." There is a reason that Buddy Nix left the Bills with one drafted lineman during his tenure...the dude was an original American Picker for OL and this occured well before Marrone ever got here. Will Whaley be different...I agree with THAT...I'll wait and see.
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