Green Lightning Posted March 18, 2014 Posted March 18, 2014 The thing you gotta know about TBD is some folks just aren't happy unless they can crap on something. I enjoyed the OP's offering and much of the convo until the little clouds that cry appeared. Given this thread and the other good one on sorting out the truth of our OL, I'm feeling better about Williams.
KOKBILLS Posted March 18, 2014 Posted March 18, 2014 The thing you gotta know about TBD is some folks just aren't happy unless they can crap on something. I enjoyed the OP's offering and much of the convo until the little clouds that cry appeared. Given this thread and the other good one on sorting out the truth of our OL, I'm feeling better about Williams. Well said Green...
chris heff Posted March 18, 2014 Posted March 18, 2014 The indisputable fact is Greg Gabriel never actually made ANY of those picks. He never advanced high enough in the profession to be trusted with that responsibility. Another fact is: he WAS a scout that WAS fired by the Bears. You are correct, he managed scouts and made recommendations to a GM, Jerry Angelo, who brought him to Chicago from NY. Angelo fired him and others in a job saving attempt . Angelo was eventually fired anyway. I'm unsure of your point, it is obvious that people in professional sports are fired often and move to other organizations. Greg Gabriel's 28 years in the NFL is a pretty good run. When he was fired he decided to retire. It wasn't like there were no offers. Please remember, I know him.
Tipster19 Posted March 18, 2014 Author Posted March 18, 2014 Tipster: Mike Tice is the offensive line coach for the Atlanta Falcons. Oops, can I have some toast to go with the egg on my face! The last I heard he was betting on horses and hit a jackpot.
chris heff Posted March 18, 2014 Posted March 18, 2014 If he wrote the same post about a random former director of college scouting from the rams that you didn't personally know, I don't think your reaction would be near as strong. Yeah, I don't know, do defend people you know more strongly than those you don't? I just think 28 years of scouting for NFL teams make s him a better judge than fans.
Mr. WEO Posted March 18, 2014 Posted March 18, 2014 What is your response? Anyone can be an NFL scout? Look, I love the Bills and I enjoy the discourse on this site and I know our common denominator is we all root for the Bills on fall Sundays. That's a bond albeit a strange one. No, that's not my response. You keep wanting it to be my response, but it isn't. I'll make it even easier. No, not everyone is an NFL caliber scout. Most probably could be if they spent enough time at it. Don't try to make a point with a ridiculous example that easily disproves your point (i.e.; Losman). Don't try to argue against the obvious--history has already proven what many fans already suspected: many talent evaluators in the NFL, no matter how long they have been at it are not very good at their job. A lay person should be able to, and can, point that out without much argument. There are poor performers in every occupation. Why claim these guys are beyond reproach just because they are being payed to make evaluations? And don't connect poor decisions by talent evaluators with fans' wish to consume/follow sports or a specific team. It makes no sense--at all. We keep hoping they will make better decisions than they have, or someone will....
chris heff Posted March 18, 2014 Posted March 18, 2014 Tipster I think your fine. Heff has a connection to Gabriel which makes critiicism of him hit closer to home (although I totally agree with Heff's position) I find myself argueing for a player I havent even watched that much.... What I do know is I am confidient in Doug Whaley.....who found some real gems last offseason. John, in another thread I fully admitted to never having paid on bit of attention to Chris Williams. I don't know if I've ever seen him play. My point is I think a guy the scouted for NFL teams for 28 years knows more than me.
Fixxxer Posted March 18, 2014 Posted March 18, 2014 I watched several Rams games from last year and I believe he will be an improvement from Brown and Legursky. I watched ten games and he only had one false start and gave up 2 sacks. When the Rams needed important yardage they ran behind him and Long and in pass pro he held his own when in one on one match-ups. He is not nimble when pulling and I don't think he's all that much in the screen game (Brown was talking about this as he was his forte) I don't see a nasty run blocker but he does his job.
In space no one can hear Posted March 18, 2014 Posted March 18, 2014 The thing you gotta know about TBD is some folks just aren't happy unless they can crap on something. I enjoyed the OP's offering and much of the convo until the little clouds that cry appeared. Given this thread and the other good one on sorting out the truth of our OL, I'm feeling better about Williams. I am glad you are feeling better about Williams after the guy who drafted him in the first round hypes him up. One contributing factor to Greg Gabriel being fired by the Bears was his inability to scout and draft offensive lineman. The Bears draft choices on the o/line during his tenure were brutal to say the least. Marc Colombo - Terrence Metcalf - Bryan Anderson - Tyler Reed - Aaron Brant - Chris Williams - Chester Adams - Kirk Barton - Lance Louis - With a record of drafting offensive lineman like this- it's hard for me to get excited about Gabriel's comments.
NoSaint Posted March 18, 2014 Posted March 18, 2014 I watched several Rams games from last year and I believe he will be an improvement from Brown and Legursky. I watched ten games and he only had one false start and gave up 2 sacks. When the Rams needed important yardage they ran behind him and Long and in pass pro he held his own when in one on one match-ups. He is not nimble when pulling and I don't think he's all that much in the screen game (Brown was talking about this as he was his forte) I don't see a nasty run blocker but he does his job. Having invested the time so recently and watching him so closely- it sounds like your results aren't matching the 5 sacks, 8 hurries and 28 pressures he got from the pff ratings?
Mr. WEO Posted March 18, 2014 Posted March 18, 2014 The thing you gotta know about TBD is some folks just aren't happy unless they can crap on something. I enjoyed the OP's offering and much of the convo until the little clouds that cry appeared. Given this thread and the other good one on sorting out the truth of our OL, I'm feeling better about Williams. I feel good about the O-line already--I would cite the thread you mentioned also. Those who dump on the O-line can't come to grips with the real problems last year: QB play and OC performance. Gabriel's pick won't change this. That's not crying...
Fixxxer Posted March 18, 2014 Posted March 18, 2014 Having invested the time so recently and watching him so closely- it sounds like your results aren't matching the 5 sacks, 8 hurries and 28 pressures he got from the pff ratings? PFF = football Bible? I read PFF and many times I linked their articles on this site, but they are just another point of view and as such they are subjective. In fact after the negative press and the negative rating given by PFF I wanted to look for myself expecting disaster from Williams. It would be interesting for you to watch some of the Rams games and give your opinion based on what you see.
Doc Posted March 18, 2014 Posted March 18, 2014 Football outsiders ranks the Bills' run blocking 16th in the league and 28th in pass protection. Whereas PFF ranked them 15th overall. The truth is probably somewhere in between, meaning the OL needs to be improved. Hopefully CW is part of the improvement and Hairston can stay healthy and upgrade RT. Although I'd favor drafting a RT in the middle rounds.
Bill from NYC Posted March 18, 2014 Posted March 18, 2014 Also said Corey Graham will at least be the 3rd CB, but knowing him, probably was told he'll compete for a starting job and has a good chance of getting it. I find this more interesting than the comments about Williams.
Nanker Posted March 18, 2014 Posted March 18, 2014 another one bites the dust... It's like candy for you, isn't it.
stony Posted March 18, 2014 Posted March 18, 2014 You are correct, he managed scouts and made recommendations to a GM, Jerry Angelo, who brought him to Chicago from NY. Angelo fired him and others in a job saving attempt . Angelo was eventually fired anyway. I'm unsure of your point, it is obvious that people in professional sports are fired often and move to other organizations. Greg Gabriel's 28 years in the NFL is a pretty good run. When he was fired he decided to retire. It wasn't like there were no offers. Please remember, I know him. He's got credibility in my book. I appreciate the behind the scenes stories you told earlier...one of my favorite part of this board.
3rdand12 Posted March 18, 2014 Posted March 18, 2014 (edited) I find this more interesting than the comments about Williams. Corey offers some better size matchups back there as compared my boy Robey . And a sure fire ST core player i betI just see it as a more complete secondary . Sure competetion but its always competetion , right ? Edited March 18, 2014 by 3rdand12
BigBuff423 Posted March 18, 2014 Posted March 18, 2014 I've known Greg Gabriel for a long time he is a good friend of my sister and brother-in-law. He was at my home a few years ago, it was when Losman was named the Bills starter. He gave a very accurate assessment of Losman which was pretty depressing, almost prophetic though. Greg is a guy that worked his way into an NFL job. Watched a lot of film, wrote reports. Spent two scouting part time for the Bills. Then sixteen years as a full time scout for the Giants, which led to him being named the Director of College Scouting for the Bears. A position he held for ten years. All in all a 28 year career in the NFL. And you? Thank you...for posting an appropriate, well stated response to the often malcontents on this board...it was descriptive and confrontational without being insulting or ridiculing... Look, everyone can have a negative opinion of the BILLS, their players, their FO, or anything for that matter and you are entitled to it...but for the love of Jesus-Mary-and Joseph, can we please stop immediately dumping on every - single - decision made by the BILLS?? Not for nothing, but based on last year's Draft and FA success overall - and yes, they screwed up not signing / drafting a good LG - I think we should all take a step back and let this thing evolve and unfold before we start burning this team to the ground... Btw, how'd the Fins do last year? Or Redskins year after year? Or Cowboys?....exactly, signing a bunch of high-priced, big named FAs doesn't equal wins....so, let's just keep the baby in the bath water before we decide to throw it out....
NoSaint Posted March 18, 2014 Posted March 18, 2014 PFF = football Bible? I read PFF and many times I linked their articles on this site, but they are just another point of view and as such they are subjective. In fact after the negative press and the negative rating given by PFF I wanted to look for myself expecting disaster from Williams. It would be interesting for you to watch some of the Rams games and give your opinion based on what you see. I definitely don't think it's the bible - hence I was asking for your opinion on their numbers since you seemed to be in the middle of watching the season. Where are you watching?
Doc Posted March 18, 2014 Posted March 18, 2014 I find this more interesting than the comments about Williams. I'm sure. Mostly because it means no high round CB pick.
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