In space no one can hear Posted March 18, 2014 Posted March 18, 2014 (edited) And Heff's point is still valid in that Gabriel doesnt get to the position he was at without paying his dues and being good at what he does....period. That is not disputable......there are only so many of those jobs and Gabriel had one of them. Now regarding Williams....if he sucked so bad he wouldnt have started (and continued to start) for two separate teams. When you suck....you get benched. And WIlliams didnt. John: You stated "When you suck....you get benched. And WIlliams didnt." Actually, when you suck , you get cut. And Williams did. Edited March 18, 2014 by In space no one can hear
Mr. WEO Posted March 18, 2014 Posted March 18, 2014 I went surfing today and I'm having a glass of wine if I were anymore relaxed I'd be dead. The person in question spent 28 years scouting for NFL teams and you think the casual fan is just as good? I keep responding, you keep asking the same question. Peace.
NoSaint Posted March 18, 2014 Posted March 18, 2014 When you suck....you get benched. And WIlliams didnt. Williams got drafted very high to play a position.... Got moved, then benched then cut midseason in Chicago, cleared waivers, signed for the last part of the season, sat unsigned until April, signed on a very small deal for 1 year, was let to test free agency and hit a home run with a team that passed on him 3 different times within the prior 16 months at a much lower price tag. He may be better than his reputation, but he also has a track record that's not as stellar as paring it down to "starter for two teams" indicates and the not benched part simply isn't true.
chris heff Posted March 18, 2014 Posted March 18, 2014 Agreed. Using Losman as an example of Gabriel's acumen is extremely weak. Gabriel was fired by the Bears for a reason and it wasn't because he was a scouting genius.(check their draft's the few years before he was canned) He was able to latch on to a job with the NFP when no other teams came calling. That he stands by a player he wanted to draft is not a shock. The reality is Williams was a bust with the Bears, and was shuffled along the line(as Mike Williams was here) because they could not find a spot where he could play adequately. Ultimately they decided that Gabriel's hand picked player wasn't even good enough to be on the team. Scouting like that puts you on the unemployment line, and it did with Gabriel. Some the Bears draft picks during his tenure are, Lance Briggs, Tommie Harris, Devin Hester, Johnny Knox and Nathan Vasher. My point is if you guys could do better then do it. Greg Gabriel started reviewing film for free and parlayed that into a 28 year career. I'm sure you have never made the wrong decision.
John from Riverside Posted March 18, 2014 Posted March 18, 2014 Williams got drafted very high to play a position.... Got moved, then benched then cut midseason in Chicago, cleared waivers, signed for the last part of the season, sat unsigned until April, signed on a very small deal for 1 year, was let to test free agency and hit a home run with a team that passed on him 3 different times within the prior 16 months at a much lower price tag. He may be better than his reputation, but he also has a track record that's not as stellar as paring it down to "starter for two teams" indicates and the not benched part simply isn't true. Jesus.....ok.....let me ask this. How many games has WIlliams started in the last 2 years? Some the Bears draft picks during his tenure are, Lance Briggs, Tommie Harris, Devin Hester, Johnny Knox and Nathan Vasher. My point is if you guys could do better then do it. Greg Gabriel started reviewing film for free and parlayed that into a 28 year career. I'm sure you have never made the wrong decision. Some the Bears draft picks during his tenure are, Lance Briggs, Tommie Harris, Devin Hester, Johnny Knox and Nathan Vasher. My point is if you guys could do better then do it. Greg Gabriel started reviewing film for free and parlayed that into a 28 year career. I'm sure you have never made the wrong decision. If you can do it better do it? THat is the whole problem with this arguement....they DO believe they could do it better.....its just nobody would even think of LETTING them do it much less paying them for it...... You see...fans have the nice position of hindsight.......where as a GM has to make those decisions based on the information he has right THEN.......
....lybob Posted March 18, 2014 Posted March 18, 2014 All Williams has to be is a little better than Legurski - and RT has to be a little better, and QB has to be a little better, and our 2nd year WRs a little better and SJ, FJ, CJS healthy, The difference between 6-10 and 10-6 is really very slight
Doc Posted March 18, 2014 Posted March 18, 2014 At least half the posters here had the same "prophesy" about Losman at the same time. Sometimes it's really not that hard.... Yeah, but what did he have to say about Matt Leinart? It wouldn't surprise me that if Graham were to ball out then he could possibly be the successor to McKelvin if he doesn't play well this year. Isn't Leotis a FA after this year? Nope. Leo signed a 4-year deal last off-season.
KOKBILLS Posted March 18, 2014 Posted March 18, 2014 I've known Greg Gabriel for a long time he is a good friend of my sister and brother-in-law. He was at my home a few years ago, it was when Losman was named the Bills starter. He gave a very accurate assessment of Losman which was pretty depressing, almost prophetic though. Greg is a guy that worked his way into an NFL job. Watched a lot of film, wrote reports. Spent two scouting part time for the Bills. Then sixteen years as a full time scout for the Giants, which led to him being named the Director of College Scouting for the Bears. A position he held for ten years. All in all a 28 year career in the NFL. And you? Can you let him know I LOVE the NFP and his Scouting Reports...I thought that site was my little secret a while back...I find his reports excellent and usually thorough...I also like that he's not afraid to give a strong opinion...
NoSaint Posted March 18, 2014 Posted March 18, 2014 Jesus.....ok.....let me ask this. How many games has WIlliams started in the last 2 years? 16 in 2013 without much competition In 2012 he was benched a few weeks into the season and cut by October... And then cleared waivers on what would've been a pretty modest contract with no guarantees As I said, to say he was never benched is pretty straightforward wrong.
In space no one can hear Posted March 18, 2014 Posted March 18, 2014 Some the Bears draft picks during his tenure are, Lance Briggs, Tommie Harris, Devin Hester, Johnny Knox and Nathan Vasher. My point is if you guys could do better then do it. Greg Gabriel started reviewing film for free and parlayed that into a 28 year career. I'm sure you have never made the wrong decision. The indisputable fact is Greg Gabriel never actually made ANY of those picks. He never advanced high enough in the profession to be trusted with that responsibility. Another fact is: he WAS a scout that WAS fired by the Bears.
John from Riverside Posted March 18, 2014 Posted March 18, 2014 Why in the world would we even think that McKelvin WOULDNT play well next year......he honestly was our best corner this past year. What we have is a really nice position where Graham is gonna probably be better then that extra WR target that a opponent comes with.....or god forbid a injury and we dont have to move Aaron WIlliams around. I hope they ALL play well
chris heff Posted March 18, 2014 Posted March 18, 2014 I keep responding, you keep asking the same question. Peace. What is your response? Anyone can be an NFL scout? Look, I love the Bills and I enjoy the discourse on this site and I know our common denominator is we all root for the Bills on fall Sundays. That's a bond albeit a strange one.
NoSaint Posted March 18, 2014 Posted March 18, 2014 Some the Bears draft picks during his tenure are, Lance Briggs, Tommie Harris, Devin Hester, Johnny Knox and Nathan Vasher. My point is if you guys could do better then do it. Greg Gabriel started reviewing film for free and parlayed that into a 28 year career. I'm sure you have never made the wrong decision. If he wrote the same post about a random former director of college scouting from the rams that you didn't personally know, I don't think your reaction would be near as strong.
John from Riverside Posted March 18, 2014 Posted March 18, 2014 16 in 2013 without much competition In 2012 he was benched a few weeks into the season and cut by October... And then cleared waivers on what would've been a pretty modest contract with no guarantees As I said, to say he was never benched is pretty straightforward wrong. Why are you trying to throw little comments into it to try to strengthen your argement? Without much competition? Sounds like he has started quite a few consecutive games to me? Perhaps I didnt word it correctly in my original statement.....what I am trying to get at is players that suck dont play......and the fact is WIlliams has played and he has played a lot! So he isnt a good right tackle.....ok fine....then he got moved to guard and didnt miss a start?
Tipster19 Posted March 18, 2014 Author Posted March 18, 2014 Wow, I didn't mean to start an argument. I think that we might all be able to agree on this. Gabriel has credentials and credibility. He is capable of making mistakes? Absolutely but the good news is that Williams is not in a heavy contract and he is versatile, regardless if it's as a starter or as a 6th man. This post was purely intended on spreading a bit of positive news on our free agency but like many other threads it lands up going in a whole other direction.
John from Riverside Posted March 18, 2014 Posted March 18, 2014 Tipster I think your fine. Heff has a connection to Gabriel which makes critiicism of him hit closer to home (although I totally agree with Heff's position) I find myself argueing for a player I havent even watched that much.... What I do know is I am confidient in Doug Whaley.....who found some real gems last offseason.
Tipster19 Posted March 18, 2014 Author Posted March 18, 2014 One other observation before this goes any further. Chris Williams was and is still in the league, Mike Tice is not.
KOKBILLS Posted March 18, 2014 Posted March 18, 2014 Wow, I didn't mean to start an argument. I think that we might all be able to agree on this. Gabriel has credentials and credibility. He is capable of making mistakes? Absolutely but the good news is that Williams is not in a heavy contract and he is versatile, regardless if it's as a starter or as a 6th man. This post was purely intended on spreading a bit of positive news on our free agency but like many other threads it lands up going in a whole other direction. Thanks for trying Tip...
In space no one can hear Posted March 18, 2014 Posted March 18, 2014 One other observation before this goes any further. Chris Williams was and is still in the league, Mike Tice is not. Tipster: Mike Tice is the offensive line coach for the Atlanta Falcons.
NoSaint Posted March 18, 2014 Posted March 18, 2014 (edited) Why are you trying to throw little comments into it to try to strengthen your argement? Without much competition? Sounds like he has started quite a few consecutive games to me? Perhaps I didnt word it correctly in my original statement.....what I am trying to get at is players that suck dont play......and the fact is WIlliams has played and he has played a lot! So he isnt a good right tackle.....ok fine....then he got moved to guard and didnt miss a start? He moved to guard.... Then was benched, then cut in October. Then with the rams he beat out 2 young 6th rounders that were on their 2nd and 3rd teams in as many years and Barrett Robinson coming off PUP as a rookie. It's ok to acknowledge he struggled on his way out of Chicago and didnt face stiff competition in St. Louis - hopefully he finds his spot on our line. As a highly drafted lineman you get a chance to play. Even mike Williams started 56 games and was signed after he left buffalo. Hopefully Chris is on the upswing though. Edited March 18, 2014 by NoSaint
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