C.Biscuit97 Posted March 21, 2014 Posted March 21, 2014 QB is by far the weakest position on the Bills. followed by O-line and then TE. hard to believe the 28th best QB is good enough for some folks, when 50% of the success of the offense is predicated on the QB. when EJ improves to 20th best, i'm sure his supporters will be ecstatic. 20th is NOT GOOD ENOUGH. until you get a FRANCHISE QB, you are wasting your time. You're right. We should keep spending 1st rounders on QBs until we get one who makes the pro bowl as a rookie. Genius. No player has ever improve with time.
papazoid Posted March 21, 2014 Posted March 21, 2014 You're right. We should keep spending 1st rounders on QBs until we get one who makes the pro bowl as a rookie. finally , we are getting somewhere [laffin]
KOKBILLS Posted March 21, 2014 Posted March 21, 2014 Sorry BB. Looks like the Texans are preparing to take Bortles and let him sit for two years behind Fitz. You may want to psychologically prepare for this eventuality. GO BILLS!!! I tried to tell him the same thing a couple days ago...
papazoid Posted March 21, 2014 Posted March 21, 2014 Bortles to Houston is a lock. The Oakland Raiders will trade a late-round pick in the 2014 NFL draft to the Houston Texans in exchange for quarterback Matt Schaub, a league source told ESPN. http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10644839/matt-schaub-expected-traded-oakland-raiders-houston-texans
Beerball Posted March 21, 2014 Posted March 21, 2014 I must have missed your question in the midst of all the jocularity and madcap hi-jinx of the thread. Anyway, not a difficult question. If EJ permanently loses the starting job, then we at least have some answers moving forward. I say permanently because I see the possibility of sitting him if he's struggling and needs to take a look from the sidelines to gain perspective. That's not uncommon. If he can't play his way out of it, the team has lost confidence in him as the starter, and he clearly proves incapable, then you make plans to draft a better talent in 2015. I certainly don't see Lewis as any sort of long term answer at the position and our 2014 season would be compromised at best. And what happens if EJ Manuel pans out this year? GO BILLS!!! The question was how will your confidence, in the Bills entire,change if EJ is beaten out by Lewis or Dixon or Tuel? How confident will you be going into the 2014 season with someone other than EJ as the starter? In other words, are you as confident in the 3 amigos as you are in EJ? If EJ pans out? I'm not sure what pans out means to you, but, I can assure you that if EJ establishes himself as the QB of the Bills for the 2014 season, and beyond, and he becomes the QB we all hope he can be then I will happily say that I was wrong. I don't shirk away from what I say. I root for the uniform, the player inside the uniform isn't so important to me. Sorry BB. Looks like the Texans are preparing to take Bortles and let him sit for two years behind Fitz. You may want to psychologically prepare for this eventuality. GO BILLS!!! The fan base of any team willing to let a QB sit behind Fitz for 2 seasons should stage a massive revolt. Maybe a year but I would guess even less than that before patience with Fitz is lost.
K-9 Posted March 21, 2014 Posted March 21, 2014 The question was how will your confidence, in the Bills entire,change if EJ is beaten out by Lewis or Dixon or Tuel? How confident will you be going into the 2014 season with someone other than EJ as the starter? In other words, are you as confident in the 3 amigos as you are in EJ? If EJ pans out? I'm not sure what pans out means to you, but, I can assure you that if EJ establishes himself as the QB of the Bills for the 2014 season, and beyond, and he becomes the QB we all hope he can be then I will happily say that I was wrong. I don't shirk away from what I say. I root for the uniform, the player inside the uniform isn't so important to me. I'm not confident going into 2014, regardless. EJ has a lot to prove as do other players. I'm cautiously optimistic but I'm also pragmatic; if he screws the pooch you simply move on. What other choice does an organization have? I'm confident that EJ showed enough to warrant the continued opportunity to start. As to the "3 amigos", assuming you are talking about the much hyped QB prospects in this draft, I am far more confident that Manuel is still the better prospect than all of them at present. I fully understand what you mean by rooting for the laundry. It's been like that since the advent of free agency in all sports, as far as I'm concerned. What I meant by "if EJ pans out" is that IF that's the case, wasting a pick at 9 on a QB prospect no further along in his development as a pro, would have been a colossal mistake given all the talent at other positions, particularly this year. It's just more prudent to take the better player until we have a definitive answer on EJ. I submit that may be a while. I can see how that might rankle you and others that don't like his chances, though. It's too bad Kolb wasn't good enough to beat him out which ruined their plans to let him develop for a couple years. Kolb would have been a much better foil than a prospect everybody KNEW was raw and needed time coming in. GO BILLS!!! The question was how will your confidence, in the Bills entire,change if EJ is beaten out by Lewis or Dixon or Tuel? How confident will you be going into the 2014 season with someone other than EJ as the starter? In other words, are you as confident in the 3 amigos as you are in EJ? If EJ pans out? I'm not sure what pans out means to you, but, I can assure you that if EJ establishes himself as the QB of the Bills for the 2014 season, and beyond, and he becomes the QB we all hope he can be then I will happily say that I was wrong. I don't shirk away from what I say. I root for the uniform, the player inside the uniform isn't so important to me. The fan base of any team willing to let a QB sit behind Fitz for 2 seasons should stage a massive revolt. Maybe a year but I would guess even less than that before patience with Fitz is lost. A bigger revolt by the fan base would occur if they start a raw prospect way before he's ready and said fan base just doesn't have the patience with the kid. GO BILLS!!!
Beerball Posted March 21, 2014 Posted March 21, 2014 I'm not confident going into 2014, regardless. EJ has a lot to prove as do other players. I'm cautiously optimistic but I'm also pragmatic; if he screws the pooch you simply move on. What other choice does an organization have? I'm confident that EJ showed enough to warrant the continued opportunity to start. As to the "3 amigos", assuming you are talking about the much hyped QB prospects in this draft, I am far more confident that Manuel is still the better prospect than all of them at present. I fully understand what you mean by rooting for the laundry. It's been like that since the advent of free agency in all sports, as far as I'm concerned. What I meant by "if EJ pans out" is that IF that's the case, wasting a pick at 9 on a QB prospect no further along in his development as a pro, would have been a colossal mistake given all the talent at other positions, particularly this year. It's just more prudent to take the better player until we have a definitive answer on EJ. I submit that may be a while. I can see how that might rankle you and others that don't like his chances, though. It's too bad Kolb wasn't good enough to beat him out which ruined their plans to let him develop for a couple years. Kolb would have been a much better foil than a prospect everybody KNEW was raw and needed time coming in. GO BILLS!!! A bigger revolt by the fan base would occur if they start a raw prospect way before he's ready and said fan base just doesn't have the patience with the kid. GO BILLS!!! Gotcha. Trade him. I have to assume that you feel that 1 year ago Manuel was much better than Bortles? You want Manuel to start year 2 but you believe Bortles needs 2 years to develop.
K-9 Posted March 21, 2014 Posted March 21, 2014 Gotcha. Trade him. I have to assume that you feel that 1 year ago Manuel was much better than Bortles? You want Manuel to start year 2 but you believe Bortles needs 2 years to develop. I agree you would trade the backup but I don't know that you recoup the value of the #9 pick in a draft loaded with blue-chip talent at the top. While I do think Manuel is the better prospect at this point, it's too bad he doesn't have the luxury of the same two years I presume Bortles would get in behind Fitz in Houston. The Bills coaches were surprised that EJ beat out the vet they were gonna groom him behind for a couple years. We all knew he was a project coming out and he's still very much a work in progress to say the least. I can't see Bortles beating out Fitz. And it wouldn't surprise me in the least if the Bill try to find another vet to take pressure off Manuel, either. GO BILLS!!!
NoName Posted March 21, 2014 Posted March 21, 2014 Depends on which QB is there. but if the right QB is there ABSOLUTELY. The main thing holding this team back from playoffs is QB play.
Not at the table Karlos Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 ... which sort of proves the point of people advocating the drafting of a qb. The Packers always drafted QBs in the Favre years figuring that they'd be great trade bait if Favre stayed the starter. Examples include Mark Brunell, Matt Hasselback, Aaron Brooks, Ty Detmer, Matt Flynn, Brian Brohm, and more. They took Flynn and Brohm in the same year In the 1990s/2000s, they took a QB most years. They weren't always high picks, but they've publicly said that they value the position above all other positions and will always take a QB they like late if he's there. The Bills don't operate like this. This is exactly what I want the bills to do
mrags Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 I am waiting for this board to melt down when Thad Lewis outplays EJ in camp and TAKES the starting job away from him. #Justsaying it might happen, stranger things have happened before If by some miracle Manziel drops to us we Better take him. Anybody else no. im really late to this debate but I agree with this 100%. The Lewis part of it. I am not saying I think Thad will outplay EJ becAuse these too little to go on from EJ at this point but I strongly believe that Thad will look really good in camp and on. All I cN say is EJ better bring his A-game this year. No on Manziel.
Speedy G Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 If one the three amigos fall to the Bills, another team might want to trade up to get him, which might happen. If it does, and more picks can be acquired, pull the trigger. As long as the trading team isn't too far down the list! From what I've heard, the top twenty picks are blue chip prospects, so you never know what the FO is thinking. But they need a starter out of this number 1 pick for sure!
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 im really late to this debate but I agree with this 100%. The Lewis part of it. I am not saying I think Thad will outplay EJ becAuse these too little to go on from EJ at this point but I strongly believe that Thad will look really good in camp and on. All I cN say is EJ better bring his A-game this year. No on Manziel. EJ had a 112 qb rating in his first preseason.
FireChan Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 EJ had a 112 qb rating in his first preseason. Was that the third or 4th quarter, didn't Tuel dominate as well?
K-9 Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 Was that the third or 4th quarter, didn't Tuel dominate as well? Tuel "dominated" in one half against 3rd and 4th stringers vs. the Colts. Unlike EJ, Tuel did NOT dominate where it matters most: in camp, where every rep is broken down and scrutinized to the Nth degree. EJ won the job the same way Tuel lost it, in camp, not in the preseason games he played. GO BILLS!!!
biggerdaddynj Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 (edited) If one the three amigos fall to the Bills, another team might want to trade up to get him, which might happen. If it does, and more picks can be acquired, pull the trigger. As long as the trading team isn't too far down the list! From what I've heard, the top twenty picks are blue chip prospects, so you never know what the FO is thinking. But they need a starter out of this number 1 pick for sure! I would LOVE a trade down to nab more picks and to draft Ebron! Our pick has a value of 1350. See: http://www.calculatorsoup.com/calculators/games/draft-pick-value.php. I've checked a bunch of mock drafts and the earliest anyone projects Ebron going is to the NYG at 12. However, I think they have a much, much greater need at OL so I'm not worried about them stealing Ebron. I think the Cowboys would be a good trade partner with their 16th pick which is valued at 1000. They are projected to select either a S or DT and if they don't move up they probably won't have the opportunity to take the top S or DT--STL is projected to take a S at 13 (Ha Ha Clinton-Dix) and CHI is projected to take the first DT at 14 (Timmy Jernigan). So, if the. Cowboys want to have first choice of S and DT, we would be the perfect team to trade with. They could also give us their 2nd round pick--47th which is valued at 430--and we could give them our 4th round pick--which is valued at 84. The value of our picks in this mix is 1434 and the Cowboys picks are valued at 1430. So it's essentially a wash. Jerry Jones loves to wheel and deal so anything is possible. Most importantly, it appears to be very unlikely that any of the teams selecting between 10th and 15th would go with Ebron (DET Gilbert-CB, TENN Barr-LB, NYG Lewan-OT, STL Pryor ((2nd ranked S)), CHI Donald ((2nd ranked DT)), PIT. ((Secondary and WR are bigger needs than TE--Dennard at CB or Evans at WR). We would then have two 2nd round picks to use for the BPA at OT and WR. Probably just.a dream.... Edited March 23, 2014 by biggerdaddynj
FireChan Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 Tuel "dominated" in one half against 3rd and 4th stringers vs. the Colts. Unlike EJ, Tuel did NOT dominate where it matters most: in camp, where every rep is broken down and scrutinized to the Nth degree. EJ won the job the same way Tuel lost it, in camp, not in the preseason games he played. GO BILLS!!! I'm sorry, we were talking about EJ's mythical QB rating against 3rd and 4th stringers.
K-9 Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 I'm sorry, we were talking about EJ's mythical QB rating against 3rd and 4th stringers. EJ played mostly against 1st and 2nd stringers in the preseason. You seemed to indicate Tuel did the same thing. He didn't. All preseason games can be characterized as mythical, imo. It's all about training camp and that's where EJ dominated. Nothing mythical about that. GO BILLS!!!
FireChan Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 (edited) EJ played mostly against 1st and 2nd stringers in the preseason. You seemed to indicate Tuel did the same thing. He didn't. All preseason games can be characterized as mythical, imo. It's all about training camp and that's where EJ dominated. Nothing mythical about that. GO BILLS!!! I indicated exactly what I said. "It's worth noting that Manuel and the Bills' starters were working against the Colts' second- and third-string defenses, but it helped Manuel finish strong. His final stat line was 16-for-21 for 107 yards and a touchdown." Edited March 23, 2014 by FireChan
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