3rdnlng Posted March 19, 2014 Author Posted March 19, 2014 My opinion on a ridiculous article written by a ridiculous person who wades in fear-mongering and hate designed to draw mouse clicks rather than honestly discuss the subject? I've given it. If you want to discuss the actual subject, do so with a better starting point. As for JiA, when he posits bigotry as a reason to exclude gays from service, and is too stupid to even realize how bigoted his solution is, he deserves to be trounced over and over again for it. You might want to go back and read over my OP and rethink your position of putting your hands over your ears and just wailing. I still expect more from you. You truly are better than this.
Deranged Rhino Posted March 19, 2014 Posted March 19, 2014 You might want to go back and read over my OP and rethink your position of putting your hands over your ears and just wailing. I still expect more from you. You truly are better than this. I read the article. Wish I hadn't, but I did. It's fear mongering of the worst kind. You should be ashamed to be using it as a serious starting point for a discussion. If you want to talk about gays in the military or transgenders in the military and expect to be taken seriously, you shouldn't quote articles that use phrases such as "homosexualize the military" and "radical socially engineering" in the same breath. Especially when they are titled Tranny Time. There's a reason this dude was a boxer -- he's been hit in the head way too many times. So it's you who I expected better from. This is trash of the worst kind and makes discussing what could be an interesting topic, moot.
Jim in Anchorage Posted March 19, 2014 Posted March 19, 2014 You still haven't answered. What point does the CDC study prove in your mind? You posted it to make your point, what did you mean by it? What do I have to say? Homosexual's are a unhealthy group. There it is from a very liberal government agency. CDC is a liberals dream but even they have to admit the facts of life.
Deranged Rhino Posted March 19, 2014 Posted March 19, 2014 What do I have to say? Homosexual's are a unhealthy group. There it is from a very liberal government agency. CDC is a liberals dream but even they have to admit the facts of life. Do you believe that there aren't straight soldiers in the service today with STDs?
Jim in Anchorage Posted March 19, 2014 Posted March 19, 2014 Do you believe that there aren't straight soldiers in the service today with STDs? Yes and I am sure that some straight solders have been rejected as 4F because of their eyesight or hearing. It's the military not a social experiment
3rdnlng Posted March 19, 2014 Author Posted March 19, 2014 Do you believe that there aren't straight soldiers in the service today with STDs? Greg: You need to step back and quit sounding like Gator. The military has a purpose and the question at hand here is at what point is it weakened by gays, lesbians or transgenders? Or is it not? Rather than throwing out a canard maybe you should answer honestly. Your post I've quoted in this thread means nothing without proper context.
Deranged Rhino Posted March 19, 2014 Posted March 19, 2014 (edited) Yes and I am sure that some straight solders have been rejected as 4F because of their eyesight or hearing. It's the military not a social experiment Do you think those straight soldiers actively serving today should be kicked out? Greg: You need to step back and quit sounding like Gator. The military has a purpose and the question at hand here is at what point is it weakened by gays, lesbians or transgenders? Or is it not? Rather than throwing out a canard maybe you should answer honestly. Your post I've quoted in this thread means nothing without proper context. That's not the question the article you posted asks. Instead, it's an article that has already made up its mind and is more interested in spewing ignorance and faulty logic than it is in having a serious discussion. I've already given that article and the way you are asking the question more than enough time and given my reasons. If you want to have a serious conversation about the subject, you can't come at it from a point of absurdity. And anyone who uses the OP article as a reference in the debate is an absurd person. Stop being absurd, 3rd. You're better than that. (EDIT: I just saw your last sentence -- the context of that quote has nothing to do with this subject or the article, merely clarifying JiA's reasons for why he would ban gays from service so that he can make it clear again how much he doesn't hate gays.) Edited March 19, 2014 by GreggyT
NDBUFFCUSEFAN Posted March 19, 2014 Posted March 19, 2014 I served with gay guys in the Marine Corps, they weren't very flamboyant and we used to joke that as long as they shot straight it didn't matter to us. I also agree that the more the standards are lowered the worse off the military is, when you are serving on the front lines and see policies being enacted that you know will lower the quality of the man next to you, it will lower the morale. My first day in Iraq I pulled lead security while my unit re-sighted their weapons, I saw an Iraqi farmer with an AK across the street and sighted in. My finger was off the trigger, weapon on safe, using the scope to track his movements, next thing I know my green LT was threatening me with court martial for scaring a civilian. That is what some of our leaders are being taught which is disturbing, if for some reason the farmer was an insurgent and opened fire I would have been pulling color guard at their funeral. War !@#$ing sucks for those of us who have served and to have policies enacted by those who never served is !@#$ing appalling.
3rdnlng Posted March 19, 2014 Author Posted March 19, 2014 Do you think those straight soldiers actively serving today should be kicked out? That's not the question the article you posted asks. Instead, it's an article that has already made up its mind and is more interested in spewing ignorance and faulty logic than it is in having a serious discussion. I've already given that article and the way you are asking the question more than enough time and given my reasons. If you want to have a serious conversation about the subject, you can't come at it from a point of absurdity. And anyone who uses the OP article as a reference in the debate is an absurd person. Stop being absurd, 3rd. You're better than that. (EDIT: I just saw your last sentence -- the context of that quote has nothing to do with this subject or the article, merely clarifying JiA's reasons for why he would ban gays from service so that he can make it clear again how much he doesn't hate gays.) What are you afraid of? Can't you just say that you believe the author is wrong because of "this and that" rather than throwing a hissy fit because you don't like the author? I posted the article because I thought it might make good discussion. JiA came out not only against the trannies in the military but the gays too. That's his position and he backed it up with some stats from a government source. Your position is that you are against the author, JiA and me because we are not taking whatever position you have hidden in your head. Of course the article is controversial. Would you expect discussion from an article that wasn't? Quit acting like a teenage girl and state your opinions without going off the deep end.
Jim in Anchorage Posted March 20, 2014 Posted March 20, 2014 It absolutely is stupid. It's so stupid you cannot even fathom how stupid it is. You posted the CDC link discussing STDs as proof of gay and bi sexual men being medically unfit to serve. Do you honestly want to contend that no straight servicemen have ever contracted an STD? Or maybe you're saying anyone with an STD should be medically discharged from the service. Either way, using that as your argument is light years beyond stupid. It shows no critical thinking or analysis whatsoever. If anyone is wishing the world were different, it most assuredly is you. You're the who's beliefs are backed by nothing more than your hatred, small mindedness and complete utter ****-headedry. You have no facts to back your claims up and when presented with counter points which include facts you invent your own "facts" to suit your belief. You are a small man with a small mind and a smaller soul. You bring nothing to this conversation other than hate. You bring nothing to the digital world of TSW other than hate and ignorance based on your lengthy posting history. You don't even know dick about football and yet you continue to speak. You are a the worst sort of person -- one who thinks he is righteous because he's too dumb to realize how ignorant he is. I draw the line at taking anything Matt Barber says on the issue seriously. Wait- I can't have a opinion on gays in the military because you think I don't know enough about football? You're one nutty dude.
Deranged Rhino Posted March 20, 2014 Posted March 20, 2014 Wait- I can't have a opinion on gays in the military because you think I don't know enough about football? You're one nutty dude. You still haven't answered the question... Do you believe those straight soldiers in the military with STDs should be disqualified from service? What are you afraid of? Can't you just say that you believe the author is wrong because of "this and that" rather than throwing a hissy fit because you don't like the author? I explained exactly what my issue was with the article, the way it approaches the subject and the bona-fides of the author himself. If those aren't enough reasons for you to understand why I take issue with the article then I'd ask yourself what your own agenda is. I posted the article because I thought it might make good discussion. Posting an article that has no facts, only fear mongering hate to support its claims, does not make for a good discussion. Titling your thread "Brokeback Mountain" does not make for a good discussion. Unless you're passing out pointy white hoods while you're discussing it. Then maybe. JiA came out not only against the trannies in the military but the gays too. That's his position and he backed it up with some stats from a government source. JiA did not present ANY facts, and asked to explain what he thinks those stats mean, he has run from the question. The article he linked discusses a rise of STDs within the gay community -- there's no comparison made to the straight community and the article in no way suggests or implies that gay men are an unhealthier community. Anyone who reads that article and thinks that's what it says needs to get a refund on their education. But since it's JiA, we know it has nothing to do with education and everything to do with his hate. A hate he denies, which makes him a coward. And I have no respect for cowards, which is why I am going through lengths to point out his stupidity. You defending him is just pointless, unless you're stating that you agree with JiA's proposal that since some gay men have STDs the entire population should be banned from service. Do you agree with that? Because that's his argument. Your position is that you are against the author, That is not my position.
Jim in Anchorage Posted March 20, 2014 Posted March 20, 2014 You still haven't answered the question... Do you believe those straight soldiers in the military with STDs should be disqualified from service? I explained exactly what my issue was with the article, the way it approaches the subject and the bona-fides of the author himself. If those aren't enough reasons for you to understand why I take issue with the article then I'd ask yourself what your own agenda is. Posting an article that has no facts, only fear mongering hate to support its claims, does not make for a good discussion. Titling your thread "Brokeback Mountain" does not make for a good discussion. Unless you're passing out pointy white hoods while you're discussing it. Then maybe. JiA did not present ANY facts, and asked to explain what he thinks those stats mean, he has run from the question. The article he linked discusses a rise of STDs within the gay community -- there's no comparison made to the straight community and the article in no way suggests or implies that gay men are an unhealthier community. Anyone who reads that article and thinks that's what it says needs to get a refund on their education. But since it's JiA, we know it has nothing to do with education and everything to do with his hate. A hate he denies, which makes him a coward. And I have no respect for cowards, which is why I am going through lengths to point out his stupidity. You defending him is just pointless, unless you're stating that you agree with JiA's proposal that since some gay men have STDs the entire population should be banned from service. Do you agree with that? Because that's his argument. That is not my position. Do I have to read it for you? "In 2008, men who have sex with men (MSM) accounted for 63% of primary and secondary syphilis cases in the United States." Lets see 5% of the population accounts for 63% of new syphilis cases. That is nothing but stupid to you right?
TakeYouToTasker Posted March 20, 2014 Posted March 20, 2014 I understand there was an uproar when black Americans were admitted into the service. That seemed to work out OK.
Deranged Rhino Posted March 20, 2014 Posted March 20, 2014 Do I have to read it for you? "In 2008, men who have sex with men (MSM) accounted for 63% of primary and secondary syphilis cases in the United States." Lets see 5% of the population accounts for 63% of new syphilis cases. That is nothing but stupid to you right? Stop ducking the question, do you think the straight men with STDs in the military today should be discharged? Yes or no.
Thirdborn Posted March 20, 2014 Posted March 20, 2014 (edited) I usually steer clear of PPP, but Holy God... got an axe to grind? Edited March 20, 2014 by Thirdborn
Jim in Anchorage Posted March 20, 2014 Posted March 20, 2014 (edited) I served with gay guys in the Marine Corps, they weren't very flamboyant and we used to joke that as long as they shot straight it didn't matter to us. I also agree that the more the standards are lowered the worse off the military is, when you are serving on the front lines and see policies being enacted that you know will lower the quality of the man next to you, it will lower the morale. My first day in Iraq I pulled lead security while my unit re-sighted their weapons, I saw an Iraqi farmer with an AK across the street and sighted in. My finger was off the trigger, weapon on safe, using the scope to track his movements, next thing I know my green LT was threatening me with court martial for scaring a civilian. That is what some of our leaders are being taught which is disturbing, if for some reason the farmer was an insurgent and opened fire I would have been pulling color guard at their funeral. War !@#$ing sucks for those of us who have served and to have policies enacted by those who never served is !@#$ing appalling. Thanks for putting your life on the line for the rest of us bro. Edited March 20, 2014 by Jim in Anchorage
3rdnlng Posted March 20, 2014 Author Posted March 20, 2014 You still haven't answered the question... Do you believe those straight soldiers in the military with STDs should be disqualified from service? I explained exactly what my issue was with the article, the way it approaches the subject and the bona-fides of the author himself. If those aren't enough reasons for you to understand why I take issue with the article then I'd ask yourself what your own agenda is. Posting an article that has no facts, only fear mongering hate to support its claims, does not make for a good discussion. Titling your thread "Brokeback Mountain" does not make for a good discussion. Unless you're passing out pointy white hoods while you're discussing it. Then maybe. JiA did not present ANY facts, and asked to explain what he thinks those stats mean, he has run from the question. The article he linked discusses a rise of STDs within the gay community -- there's no comparison made to the straight community and the article in no way suggests or implies that gay men are an unhealthier community. Anyone who reads that article and thinks that's what it says needs to get a refund on their education. But since it's JiA, we know it has nothing to do with education and everything to do with his hate. A hate he denies, which makes him a coward. And I have no respect for cowards, which is why I am going through lengths to point out his stupidity. You defending him is just pointless, unless you're stating that you agree with JiA's proposal that since some gay men have STDs the entire population should be banned from service. Do you agree with that? Because that's his argument. That is not my position. You are very good at changing the narrative. You have pretty much zeroed in on gays and ignored transgenders. You want to make this about what you want to talk about rather than discuss the broader picture. You want to argue with JiA over his response by stating he isn't presenting facts while he certainly did. You are the one having the hissy fit here. You have even accused me of taking sides with JiA when in fact I haven't taken a position on the content of either the article or what JiA has said. Your arguments are actually based on your long held dislike for JiA and the author's penchant for not pussiefooting around. The question here is where, if at all, should the line be drawn? Another question would be,can you discuss it without taking on the Richard Simmons persona?
Jim in Anchorage Posted March 20, 2014 Posted March 20, 2014 You are very good at changing the narrative. You have pretty much zeroed in on gays and ignored transgenders. You want to make this about what you want to talk about rather than discuss the broader picture. You want to argue with JiA over his response by stating he isn't presenting facts while he certainly did. You are the one having the hissy fit here. You have even accused me of taking sides with JiA when in fact I haven't taken a position on the content of either the article or what JiA has said. Your arguments are actually based on your long held dislike for JiA and the author's penchant for not pussiefooting around. The question here is where, if at all, should the line be drawn? Another question would be,can you discuss it without taking on the Richard Simmons persona? I thought it entertaining he searched my post history. I am getting followers? Does he have photos of me tacked up on his wall?
3rdnlng Posted March 20, 2014 Author Posted March 20, 2014 I thought it entertaining he searched my post history. I am getting followers? Does he have photos of me tacked up on his wall? How would I know, I've never been to his house. I swear. Actually Greg is not a bad guy, just a very sensitive one on certain issues. He sometimes uses his writing skills to cleverly change the issue. Notice that he took on the gay issue but stayed away from the transgender issue claiming it was the authors fault.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 20, 2014 Posted March 20, 2014 My first day in Iraq I pulled lead security while my unit re-sighted their weapons, I saw an Iraqi farmer with an AK across the street and sighted in. My finger was off the trigger, weapon on safe, using the scope to track his movements, next thing I know my green LT was threatening me with court martial for scaring a civilian. That is what some of our leaders are being taught which is disturbing, if for some reason the farmer was an insurgent and opened fire I would have been pulling color guard at their funeral. War !@#$ing sucks for those of us who have served and to have policies enacted by those who never served is !@#$ing appalling. At least they gave you rounds for your rifle. When Clinton deployed me to Kuwait in 1993 as a measure to dissuade Saddam from re-invading, they didn't even issue us rounds.
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