NoSaint Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 Right. Plus, not only wasn't he surrounded by elite guys, but he played half his games against three of the top 10, may be even top 5 d-lines last year. I'm with you, wait and see. Anyone who balks at his contract is willfully ignoring how salaries are escalating for starting FA's. And anyone who says he stinks better as heck produce another FA who would have come in for the same cash or point us toward the can't-miss 22 year old who's also certain to be better. Why does it have to be the same cash? Why can't we afford most starting guard salaries?
Gugny Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 Right. Plus, not only wasn't he surrounded by elite guys, but he played half his games against three of the top 10, may be even top 5 d-lines last year. I'm with you, wait and see. Anyone who balks at his contract is willfully ignoring how salaries are escalating for starting FA's. And anyone who says he stinks better as heck produce another FA who would have come in for the same cash or point us toward the can't-miss 22 year old who's also certain to be better. Agree 100%.
The Big Cat Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 Why does it have to be the same cash? Why can't we afford most starting guard salaries? Mostly because it takes two to tango. If you bought a Volkswagen but could have afforded a BMW, do you inherently hate the Volks?
dubs Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 Great post and something people forget. It's funny how an oline that looked terrible can suddenly improved with a QB switch. It happens all the time. Cutler is a moron. McNown plays and the oline gets better. See how the Bills oline was with RJ and then how it was with Flutie. See Trent Edwards and Fitz. Holcomb and Losman. I don't think one person has said Williams is a amazing. But maybe we shouldn't just base everything off PFF and the NFC West's version of James Walker. Agreed. C. Williams may be terrible. I have no idea. All I'm saying is that when a guy as we'll respected as Bill Polian gives him a pretty decent grade, that needs to be given some consideration. But personally I have no idea what will happen. Just kind of taking a wait and see approach with a little optimism. It's also because I really think it's largely irrelevant. Just need EJ to improve. But I get that we can't just sit here and hope that happens. We need other players.
papazoid Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) chris williams, mike causin, and a kicker. Bring on the broncos! meanwhile the #1 AFC team adds demarcus ware, aqib talib and tj ward. Edited March 12, 2014 by papazoid
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 Agreed. C. Williams may be terrible. I have no idea. All I'm saying is that when a guy as we'll respected as Bill Polian gives him a pretty decent grade, that needs to be given some consideration. But personally I have no idea what will happen. Just kind of taking a wait and see approach with a little optimism. It's also because I really think it's largely irrelevant. Just need EJ to improve. But I get that we can't just sit here and hope that happens. We need other players. Cut that out. You must overreact!!! Remember that thread where Mario missed a week of training camp??? We need more level headed discussion like that. meanwhile the #1 AFC team adds demarcus ware, aqib talib and tj ward. And we know how great that has worked out for the Eagles (dream team), Redskins (Haynesworth and everyone else), Pats (85 and Haynesworth), and Fins (Mike Wallace and the Ravens' 3rd best LB!)!!! And for the record, I completely agree with what Denver is doing. But I suspect they will be in serious trouble in a year or 2 once Osweiler is their QB.
RevWarRifleman Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 Polian has him ranked as 4th-best OT in FA: http://insider.espn....tion=46&type=-1 My understanding is that OBD is looking at him as a LG candidate. Thanks for putting the Polian stuff in. At free agency and draft periods especially, when Bill speaks, I listen. RWR
Big C Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) meanwhile the #1 AFC team adds demarcus ware, aqib talib and tj ward. They spend a ton of money, too. When you have an all-time great at QB nearing the end of his career, you can do that with the expectation that you win the Super Bowl immediately and then can cut them all (or some) and rebuild a couple years later. Edited March 12, 2014 by Big C
NoSaint Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 But I suspect they will be in serious trouble in a year or 2 once Osweiler is their QB. no kidding.... because osweiler will be their qb, not because they signed ward and ware.
dubs Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 Cut that out. You must overreact!!! Remember that thread where Mario missed a week of training camp??? We need more level headed discussion like that. AAAARRRRGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!! Chris Williams is the worst offensive lineman I've ever seen. Leave it to the Bills to sign a guy to a cap crippling deal that couldn't block Oscar Pistorias without his legs. Classic Bills. Another 45 years of finishing in last place, here we come.
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 no kidding.... because osweiler will be their qb, not because they signed ward and ware. Ware will be a terrible contract. He might already be. AAAARRRRGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!! Chris Williams is the worst offensive lineman I've ever seen. Leave it to the Bills to sign a guy to a cap crippling deal that couldn't block Oscar Pistorias without his legs. Classic Bills. Another 45 years of finishing in last place, here we come. That's much better. And say that the Bills either draft or sign another FA and Williams is a backup G/T with starting experience. Would those freaking out about the move feel better?
Chandler#81 Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 Disagree. I favor nerds with calculators and formulas for oline play over Bill Polian. I always thought Polian was slightly overrated because of the QBs he had, but he was great at finding offensive linemen. And stealing them! (Wolford) C. Williams is what the FO has been touting since Marone came on board: Huge OL. As for the 'Good Defenses' he struggled against, that were all in his previous Division, remember stat guys, he played them twice a year. Like many here, I'm no OL fanatic, but with almost blind hope -given just 1 season of FA shopping and 1 Draft, I'll buy into this selection, as this signing is what the Brass has clearly stated since mid-season a year ago they're going after.
Andrew Son Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 Ware will be a terrible contract. He might already be. I think Ware will be a great pickup. When in doubt, the opposite of what the cowboys do is probably the right move.
Cash Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 I, too, saw the ratings from PFF (note, they sure had a LOT of low ratings overall for guards) But i am certainly no expert on Guard play and only have a strong opinion when I have watched them play A LOT. Having said that, yes - they are paying him starting money (average of $3.4 mil per year but it is probably backloaded a bit). Levitre signed a contract with an average pay of $7.8 mil. I will continue to contend that is ridiculous for a GUARD. For a tackle? No. is Levitre better than Williams - c'mon everyone says he is but the Bills are a team and they have a cap so how good does a guard have to be and how much should the Bills spend? It seems to be that 1.) Williams is very likely a big step up from Legursky et al 2.) $3.4 is a reasonable number for the position and the EXPECTED level of play. To the poster asking, "could the Bills still draft an OT in round 1? Hell yes if Robinson or Matthews fall to 9. Hell yes. I expect a WR or LB however (due to who will be there at 9 and need). -RnJ If I believed #1, then I would agree with the rest of your post. My problem is that I don't see anything to suggest that Williams is actually any better than Legursky. And for the record, I completely agree with what Denver is doing. But I suspect they will be in serious trouble in a year or 2 once Osweiler is their QB. Sure, but who cares? I think we'd all rather spend 3-4 years as a Super Bowl contender followed by 3-4 years of cap hell and stinking, versus 6-8 straight years of being mediocre. One thing you have to say about the Bills' stated strategy is that it's sustainable: they're definitely never going to have so much dead money or such a high payroll that they'll be hamstrung or have to cut premium players. But it seems like all they're sustaining is sub-mediocrity. If EJ is any good over the length of his rookie deal, he'll be grossly underpaid (the way Luck, Wilson, Kaepernick, Newton, RG3, Dalton are now). A lot of teams would take those QB savings and put them into other areas of the team. The Bills seem more content to just pretend they're already paying $20 million a year for their QB, and spend on the rest of the team accordingly.
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 And stealing them! (Wolford) C. Williams is what the FO has been touting since Marone came on board: Huge OL. As for the 'Good Defenses' he struggled against, that were all in his previous Division, remember stat guys, he played them twice a year. Like many here, I'm no OL fanatic, but with almost blind hope -given just 1 season of FA shopping and 1 Draft, I'll buy into this selection, as this signing is what the Brass has clearly stated since mid-season a year ago they're going after. Solid post. We'll see I guess. I think Ware will be a great pickup. When in doubt, the opposite of what the cowboys do is probably the right move. Maybe this year. But guys in the NFL get old fast. Sometimes it happens overnight. Ware won't have to be the main guy but he had a down year last year. Maybe it was a fluke or maybe it's the sign he's winding down.
BuffOrange Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 Langston Walker II. Anybody who doesn't work for the Bills, or a diehard Bills fan, or a C. Williams family member/agent think this guy doesn't stink?
Rubes Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 That's much better. And say that the Bills either draft or sign another FA and Williams is a backup G/T with starting experience. Would those freaking out about the move feel better? No. Because then we'd be grossly overpaying a backup G/T.
NoSaint Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 http://nfl.si.com/2014/03/12/chris-williams-deal-buffalo-bills/ Grade: D. Williams has never lived up to his athletic potential, though that’s partially due to the sub-par coaching he received in Chicago. He gets pushed around too easily at any line position, and he’s not consistent when asked to stop pass-rushers at the point of attack. The Rams line was a mixed bag last season, and Williams was at least a bastion of consistency, but not much more. If the Bills are serious about competing in the AFC East sooner than later, they’ll need to develop Williams in ways other coaches have not been able to. a longer SI article including interview with williams, just quoting the final grade as cliffnotes
Rubes Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 Langston Walker II. Anybody who doesn't work for the Bills, or a diehard Bills fan, or a C. Williams family member/agent think this guy doesn't stink? Bill Polian, apparently.
RealityCheck Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 If the Bills would have signed Byrd, I bet many would feel WAY different about this move and more references to Urbic's career would be made. So much emotion.
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