NoSaint Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 This signing has that "Robert Royal" feel to it. Royal was totally under the skin of Washington DC.....to the point where the team announcers were angrily critical of his stone hands in game(a great NFL films clip, by the way)...........and yet the Bills signed him to be their starting TE thinking that THEY could exorcize the Jane out of that Tarzan body. I'm not saying they can't do that with Williams....I don't know........but the Bills have a history of paying guys like this on their potential and it really hasn't been a very good one. This isn't like the Lawson or Branch signings......they were solid players. Williams has excellent tools for the job but has been a HUGE disappointment. Agreed fully. It reminds me a lot of last year when Crossman was hired and we even had posters arguing that being able to steal him from another team was a huge victory and proof things were different. It might still work out but... It doesn't look like a good bet at all.
YoloinOhio Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 He does--I'll say that it's unlikely he'll use it as it doesn't jive with his philosophy of building through the draft and adding only mid-tier FAs. However, if he wanted to go money crazy, yes, he has the freedom to do so.
dubs Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) I know it was said before, but Bill Polian had him rated pretty high. One slot above Jairus Byrd in fact. Now, he may be wrong or he may be right, but the guy put together three separate teams that went to Super Bowls. He knows a thing or two about putting a team together. Not to mention he was signed to relative peanuts. Who do you trust more about player evaluation, Adam "Dorf on the NFL" Schefter or Bill Polian. Edited March 12, 2014 by dubs
NoSaint Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 I know it was said before, but Bill Polian had him rated pretty high. One slot about Jairus Byrd in fact. Now, he may be wrong or me he be right, but the guy put together three separate teams that went to Super Bowls. He knows a thing or two about putting a team together. And his job today isn't GM it's espn journalist. He also had bethea a full letter grade above the next safety and Donald brown as his top back. It's a questionable piece at best
richNjoisy Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 I, too, saw the ratings from PFF (note, they sure had a LOT of low ratings overall for guards) But i am certainly no expert on Guard play and only have a strong opinion when I have watched them play A LOT. Having said that, yes - they are paying him starting money (average of $3.4 mil per year but it is probably backloaded a bit). Levitre signed a contract with an average pay of $7.8 mil. I will continue to contend that is ridiculous for a GUARD. For a tackle? No. is Levitre better than Williams - c'mon everyone says he is but the Bills are a team and they have a cap so how good does a guard have to be and how much should the Bills spend? It seems to be that 1.) Williams is very likely a big step up from Legursky et al 2.) $3.4 is a reasonable number for the position and the EXPECTED level of play. To the poster asking, "could the Bills still draft an OT in round 1? Hell yes if Robinson or Matthews fall to 9. Hell yes. I expect a WR or LB however (due to who will be there at 9 and need). -RnJ
dubs Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 And his job today isn't GM it's espn journalist. He also had bethea a full letter grade above the next safety and Donald brown as his top back. It's a questionable piece at best Well, it's Polian and three NFL analysts that put together the rankings. At least Polian has been there and been successful. Not sure how that can be discounted in favor of armchair GMs and twitter trolls.
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 The Sports Xchange reports: 'Pro Football Focus graded Williams as the worst starter on the Rams' offensive line last season.' OMG !!!! is this the same Williams?
jahnyc Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 I really do not like this signing. Cut by the Bears, worst performer on the St. Lous o-line. Shouldn't he be a guy making the veteran minimum? Unfortunately, we are paying him more than what a back-up would make, so for the Bills, this means he is a starter.
3rdand12 Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) I swear when I posted this no one else had posted anything about the actual signing. Oh well! I need a or :beer: I am just funnin' brother Edited March 12, 2014 by 3rdand12
YoloinOhio Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 Last off-season the Chargers signed Rhinehart to be a starter. He didn't even start in Buffalo, but they were so thin on the OL and didn't want to break the bank for a guard so they picked him up and immediately declared he would start. The fan base was pissed. He missed the first 5 games or so with an injury. Their OL was built off value FAs and rookies. In the end they did just fine, revived their running game, made the playoffs and re-signed him this year. These GMs and coaches know that not everyone is a pro bowler but may fit into the scheme you run and fill a need amongst other solid or strong starters. He certainly isn't being paid like a pro bowler.
Big C Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 Scouting report on Williams from 2008: http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/chris-williams?id=332 From other things I've read, it seems like the Bears failed him as much as he failed them. He was moved around a lot, but he was also hampered by injuries. Last year's poor performance is something to be concerned about, but we'll have to just wait and see what happens.
HankBulloughMellencamp Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) It seems to be that 1.) Williams is very likely a big step up from Legursky et al 2.) $3.4 is a reasonable number for the position and the EXPECTED level of play. To the poster asking, "could the Bills still draft an OT in round 1? Hell yes if Robinson or Matthews fall to 9. Hell yes. I expect a WR or LB however (due to who will be there at 9 and need). -RnJ Nice post. Not leafing through the entire thread, but from what I see, the Bills addressed a glaring need by signing an experienced guy at a reasonable price. Kind of like that Manny Lawson signing last year. Doug Whaley has not yet given me a reason to be skeptical of who he brings in here. What about Legursky, you say? He was a late Steeler cut and late Bills add, and my point is that they obviously targeted this guy. That Alan Branch signing also seemed to work out OK last year, no? I also like that they are obviously looking to sign another veteran/3rd corner. And how can you not love the instagram pic the Bills posted of Williams and Marrone out in the elements celebrating the signing? edit: I almost forgot about the #1 reason this Marrone/Whaley regime gave me renewed hope - - their very first move was jettisoning that bum Kelvin Sheppard off to Indy for Jerry Hughes - - he of double digit sack production -- worked out quite well I'd say. Edited March 12, 2014 by HankBulloughMellencamp
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 And his job today isn't GM it's espn journalist. He also had bethea a full letter grade above the next safety and Donald brown as his top back. It's a questionable piece at best I respect your opinion so you favor things like PFF and Rams' bloggers over Polian? And Donald Brown really started to play well last year. 5.3 ypc on the same team when Trent Richardson struggled on.
Big C Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 I respect your opinion so you favor things like PFF and Rams' bloggers over Polian? And Donald Brown really started to play well last year. 5.3 ypc on the same team when Trent Richardson struggled on. Agreed, Brown stepped his game up and it's a bit of a surprise the Colts didn't try to keep him on considering T-Rich's struggles. Also, it's not an overwhelmingly strong FA group of running backs this year anyway.
YoloinOhio Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 Agreed, Brown stepped his game up and it's a bit of a surprise the Colts didn't try to keep him on considering T-Rich's struggles. Also, it's not an overwhelmingly strong FA group of running backs this year anyway. Chargers signed Brown last night. Not a surprise, their GM drafted him when he was in Indy.
The Big Cat Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 Robert Royal had many big plays in Ralph Wilson Stadium. My favorite was the 30yd seam route he ran, beautifully I might add, shook his coverage and found himself wide open between the two safeties (Wilson and Whitner) by 15yds only to drop the pass. If one play ever summed up an entire game, it was that drop during the infamous 6-3 shootout against the Browns. I hate to disagree on an arbitrary point, but you're wrong. The most emblematic play of Robert Royal's career was when he caught the ball, standing wide open in the back of the endzone, with both heels about a half inch past the boundary. Scouting report on Williams from 2008: http://www.nfl.com/c...williams?id=332 From other things I've read, it seems like the Bears failed him as much as he failed them. He was moved around a lot, but he was also hampered by injuries. Last year's poor performance is something to be concerned about, but we'll have to just wait and see what happens. As a Chicagoan for the past eight years, I must chime in. The Bears OLine has been a "problem" consistently. Yet Matt Forte consistently produces at a top 5-10 level. Yet McCown comes in and suddenly there's no quarterback running for his life. They've had systematic OLine issues in Chicago, but it hasn't fallen squarely on the personnel. Remember how good Fitz made our otherwise lackluster guys look? Manning? Brady? There's a reason these guys don't need world beaters in front of them while guys like Cutler do.
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 Agreed, Brown stepped his game up and it's a bit of a surprise the Colts didn't try to keep him on considering T-Rich's struggles. Also, it's not an overwhelmingly strong FA group of running backs this year anyway. Yeah, I don't think it's that crazy to saw Brown might be the best rb in FA. Also, Bertha is a more all around S than Byrd. Again, if a bad team signs him, it's one thing. But the 49ers did. I like Byrd better but it's not crazy to think Bertha is a very good player in his own right. This is my problem with Free agency and the draft. Too many people based their opinions off people who have never held a front office position. Should NO fans go off what Jerry Sullivan/ Tim Graham says about Byrd?
NoSaint Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) I respect your opinion so you favor things like PFF and Rams' bloggers over Polian? And Donald Brown really started to play well last year. 5.3 ypc on the same team when Trent Richardson struggled on. I'm favoring looking at a collection of a variety of sources and not a single guy. You are the one picking the lone source that agrees with the move. I've asked for any evaluation that he's better than the reputation that had him cut midseason (ala Colin brown) just two years ago, and described in a variety of ways with his rams stint (in this thread one of PFFs worst rated, a poor blocker in the run and pass game, an attempt to outsmart other teams, a major gamble based on little evidence, a shaky player, not a member of any 100- or 166 best free agent lists outside polian, and a bag of ass - each from different sources... Couldn't resist including the last We on the flip side have polians ranking, and bandit saying he thinks he could end up an average starter- care to share anything positive beyond "how bad could he be between good players" and "we signed Lawson and branch" to add? Bandit got upset we weren't discussing the player but it seems no one can find an upside to discuss regarding what he's actually done on the field. That doesn't worry you? Edited March 12, 2014 by NoSaint
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 I hate to disagree on an arbitrary point, but you're wrong. The most emblematic play of Robert Royal's career was when he caught the ball, standing wide open in the back of the endzone, with both heels about a half inch past the boundary. As a Chicagoan for the past eight years, I must chime in. The Bears OLine has been a "problem" consistently. Yet Matt Forte consistently produces at a top 5-10 level. Yet McCown comes in and suddenly there's no quarterback running for his life. They've had systematic OLine issues in Chicago, but it hasn't fallen squarely on the personnel. Remember how good Fitz made our otherwise lackluster guys look? Manning? Brady? There's a reason these guys don't need world beaters in front of them while guys like Cutler do. Great post and something people forget. It's funny how an oline that looked terrible can suddenly improved with a QB switch. It happens all the time. Cutler is a moron. McNown plays and the oline gets better. See how the Bills oline was with RJ and then how it was with Flutie. See Trent Edwards and Fitz. Holcomb and Losman. I don't think one person has said Williams is a amazing. But maybe we shouldn't just base everything off PFF and the NFC West's version of James Walker.
The Big Cat Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 Great post and something people forget. It's funny how an oline that looked terrible can suddenly improved with a QB switch. It happens all the time. Cutler is a moron. McNown plays and the oline gets better. See how the Bills oline was with RJ and then how it was with Flutie. See Trent Edwards and Fitz. Holcomb and Losman. I don't think one person has said Williams is a amazing. But maybe we shouldn't just base everything off PFF and the NFC West's version of James Walker. Right. Plus, not only wasn't he surrounded by elite guys, but he played half his games against three of the top 10, may be even top 5 d-lines last year. I'm with you, wait and see. Anyone who balks at his contract is willfully ignoring how salaries are escalating for starting FA's. And anyone who says he stinks better as heck produce another FA who would have come in for the same cash or point us toward the can't-miss 22 year old who's also certain to be better.
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