Wilfork asks pats to release him

[BADOLBILZ]

Sheesh. No one (at least not me) was comparing Schwartz to Carroll. Simply said not all successful Ds use deception.

 

And I never said that "all successful Ds use deception". Apparently that's what you thought you heard. I said it's just easier to STOCK a D if your DC can use deception.

 

We'd all love Whaley to find pro bowl defensive talents at the end of the draft like the Seahawks but if that is the standard you are going to hold him to then good luck with that. Being able to outcoach teams defensively is a very good long term strategy. Prime example being the Steelers......who have been utilizing zone blitz concepts to confuse QB's for 20 years......and somehow at the same time traditionally are tough to run on. That's the difference between good coaching and a JAG like Schwartz. That Steeler D is the base of the Ravens and Jet's 34's....which the Bills utilized last year to produce a team record for sacks despite playing much of the early season with a patchwork secondary and an offense that did not pressure opposing teams into throwing the ball.

 

But by all means, rather than just upgrading the LB play let's switch back AGAIN to a very contrasting 4-3 approach.

[YoloinOhio]

And I never said that "all successful Ds use deception". Apparently that's what you thought you heard. I said it's just easier to STOCK a D if your DC can use deception.

 

We'd all love Whaley to find pro bowl defensive talents at the end of the draft like the Seahawks but if that is the standard you are going to hold him to then good luck with that. Being able to outcoach teams defensively is a very good long term strategy. Prime example being the Steelers......who have been utilizing zone blitz concepts to confuse QB's for 20 years......and somehow at the same time traditionally are tough to run on. That's the difference between good coaching and a JAG like Schwartz. That Steeler D is the base of the Ravens and Jet's 34's....which the Bills utilized last year to produce a team record for sacks despite playing much of the early season with a patchwork secondary and an offense that did not pressure opposing teams into throwing the ball.

 

But by all means, rather than just upgrading the LB play let's switch back AGAIN to a very contrasting 4-3 approach.

My apologies. I will back away slowly.

[3rdand12]

And I never said that "all successful Ds use deception". Apparently that's what you thought you heard. I said it's just easier to STOCK a D if your DC can use deception.

 

We'd all love Whaley to find pro bowl defensive talents at the end of the draft like the Seahawks but if that is the standard you are going to hold him to then good luck with that. Being able to outcoach teams defensively is a very good long term strategy. Prime example being the Steelers......who have been utilizing zone blitz concepts to confuse QB's for 20 years......and somehow at the same time traditionally are tough to run on. That's the difference between good coaching and a JAG like Schwartz. That Steeler D is the base of the Ravens and Jet's 34's....which the Bills utilized last year to produce a team record for sacks despite playing much of the early season with a patchwork secondary and an offense that did not pressure opposing teams into throwing the ball.

 

But by all means, rather than just upgrading the LB play let's switch back AGAIN to a very contrasting 4-3 approach.

I hope we dont abandon some of the tools Pettine gave Marrone last year . Bills defense was something i had never seen before as far as pressures and misdirections. Actually i dont think Mike was ever stopped .

Just had that broken play thing that killed us.

I sure hope Jim does not f this thing up before he heads back to a head coaching gig .

 

But its just a matter of time before we have space eater. nom nom nom

[K-9]

I hope we dont abandon some of the tools Pettine gave Marrone last year . Bills defense was something i had never seen before as far as pressures and misdirections. Actually i dont think Mike was ever stopped .

Just had that broken play thing that killed us.

I sure hope Jim does not f this thing up before he heads back to a head coaching gig .

 

But its just a matter of time before we have space eater. nom nom nom

 

I'll preface this by saying I love Pettine and his craftiness. When he's able to dictate, he can confuse an offense.

 

That said, we didn't dictate as much as a dominant defense should. Offenses were in manageable down/distance situations far too often; mostly because of our inability to stop the run consistently.

 

Same can be said for ANY defense or DC.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Beerball]

Pete Carroll as a defensive mind has proven himself FAR superior to genius Jim Schwartz......and Seattle had the extraordinary personnel to make their style work(with a little pharmaceutical assistance, IMO). Carroll's is NOT the same scheme Schwartz runs, which is important because I think his wide-nine is garbage and an awful fit for the Bills key player, Mario Williams. The Bills had average personnel on D to start the season last year but Pettine got extraordinary results out of a number of players who were not very good in the past. The only time Schwartz had success on D was in Tennessee when his D was loaded with talent. That was very brief. His tenure there was a study in mediocrity on D. He was a big step down from Gregg Williams. He has proven himself over time to not be a + coach, he is JAG. You get no synergy with him running things, at best he is only as good as his personnel matchups and that is not good enough. Contrast his work with the mix and match jobs that Rex and Pettine did in NY right thru this season..... and especially when Rex first took over an aging modestly talented D and took it to two AFC championships. The only hope I have for Schwartz is that he is going to CHANGE from what he has done in the past. SIGNIFICANTLY. Because IMO his defense in Detroit was a joke and his D in Tennessee was a failure.

I cringe when I think about it.

 

I'll preface this by saying I love Pettine and his craftiness. When he's able to dictate, he can confuse an offense.

 

That said, we didn't dictate as much as a dominant defense should. Offenses were in manageable down/distance situations far too often; mostly because of our inability to stop the run consistently.

 

Same can be said for ANY defense or DC.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Didn't have talent to be dominant. Brought in Jim Leonhard off the street. Some think he played well, I strongly disagree. Gilmore playing with a club. Woefully thin at LB.

[K-9]

I cringe when I think about it.

 

Didn't have talent to be dominant. Brought in Jim Leonhard off the street. Some think he played well, I strongly disagree. Gilmore playing with a club. Woefully thin at LB.

 

Another complete makeover of the LB corps speaks to the lack of dominance (read: run stopping ability) that we suffered last year. And that's before taking all the injuries into consideration; the secondary was decimated early on, especially. Unless we can dictate down/distance more often than not, we won't be dominant, regardless.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[3rdand12]

I cringe when I think about it.

 

Didn't have talent to be dominant. Brought in Jim Leonhard off the street. Some think he played well, I strongly disagree. Gilmore playing with a club. Woefully thin at LB.

agreed on the injured staff. Jim L was bought in for the smarts and exp to help the speed of ramp up.

I dont think they reached their potential by any means.

Player and coaches experience were one season in . we still saw some confusion . But it was still a high risk high reward defense at times.

Schwartz might be more reliable and less exciting . But Jim could stand to take some lessons fro Mike P

[Mike in Syracuse]

I'll preface this by saying I love Pettine and his craftiness. When he's able to dictate, he can confuse an offense.

 

That said, we didn't dictate as much as a dominant defense should. Offenses were in manageable down/distance situations far too often; mostly because of our inability to stop the run consistently.

 

Same can be said for ANY defense or DC.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

I seem to recall 3rd and anything over 10 yards for our defense was almost an automatic first down for the opposing team.

Edited March 16, 2014 by Mike in Syracuse

[BADOLBILZ]

Another complete makeover of the LB corps speaks to the lack of dominance (read: run stopping ability) that we suffered last year. And that's before taking all the injuries into consideration; the secondary was decimated early on, especially. Unless we can dictate down/distance more often than not, we won't be dominant, regardless.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

Well coming off the momentum of last season this defense should be in ascent mode this year.......and if Rivers and Spikes are what they consider improvements then they have no excuse to not be improved.

 

As bent out of shape as some people here are about stopping the run, it's a passing league so winning enough games to qualify for the playoffs is still going to be about the ability to defend the pass and create turnovers in the passing game. The pass rush carried this team to it's 6 wins last year. With a mediocre pass rush they lose a number of those games.

[mrags]

 

 

Well coming off the momentum of last season this defense should be in ascent mode this year.......and if Rivers and Spikes are what they consider improvements then they have no excuse to not be improved.

 

As bent out of shape as some people here are about stopping the run, it's a passing league so winning enough games to qualify for the playoffs is still going to be about the ability to defend the pass and create turnovers in the passing game. The pass rush carried this team to it's 6 wins last year. With a mediocre pass rush they lose a number of those games.

to argue your point, when teams had a lead on us, they costed comfortably to a win as they ran the ball down out throats. So in that case, if our fun defense was much improved from last year, we will be better off. I don't care if it's a league run by nothing but long bombs every other play. You need to be able to stop teams from grinding it out on you, picking up short 3rd downs, killing the clock, and getting your defense off the field. At the same time, giving your offense more opportunities.

[BADOLBILZ]

to argue your point, when teams had a lead on us, they costed comfortably to a win as they ran the ball down out throats. So in that case, if our fun defense was much improved from last year, we will be better off. I don't care if it's a league run by nothing but long bombs every other play. You need to be able to stop teams from grinding it out on you, picking up short 3rd downs, killing the clock, and getting your defense off the field. At the same time, giving your offense more opportunities.

 

The first step in resolving that problem is having an offense that can move the football when you are behind. When Hackett was hired the plan was obviously to play the kind of offense that Chip Kelly actually made work in Philadelphia. Pettine's defense was supposed to be the complement to that......a defense that was built to pressure the passer and create turnovers. Only half of the plan worked. The offense still ran up-tempo and as a result the D faced a lot of extra snaps......which is why they finished 28th in the league in rushing attempts against. They gave up some big plays but those problems were correctable. Replacing pass rush and creating turnovers are much more difficult. Like I said, Schwartz better change. He can't replace the Pettine D with that Gunther Cunningham crapola he was running in Detroit. The Bills aren't going to make the playoffs with a middle of the league in all categories type of defense. Their offense is going to need help.

[K-9]

Well coming off the momentum of last season this defense should be in ascent mode this year.......and if Rivers and Spikes are what they consider improvements then they have no excuse to not be improved.

 

As bent out of shape as some people here are about stopping the run, it's a passing league so winning enough games to qualify for the playoffs is still going to be about the ability to defend the pass and create turnovers in the passing game. The pass rush carried this team to it's 6 wins last year. With a mediocre pass rush they lose a number of those games.

 

If Pettine were here I'd agree they would be ascending coming off last year. I think it will be the better half of a season before everyone is on the same page and plays instinctively rather than reactively in yet another new scheme.

 

It doesn't matter what kind of league it is, passing or running. Doesn't matter if we can put the opposing QB on his ass or not wtih regularity. If you don't dictate down/distance, you can't dominate. And you dictate down/distance by making teams one-dimensional. And you do that by being able to stop the run. When great passing teams are allowed to run at will (Patriots, anyone?), it makes for a long afternoon. Our FO and coaches seem to understand this, as the infusion of new LB talent for the 4th year in a row would indicate.

 

It also helps to play with leads and given how anemic our offense is If you can't play with leads more often than not, you can't dominate. But that's another discussion.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Bill from NYC]

The offense still ran up-tempo and as a result the D faced a lot of extra snaps......which is why they finished 28th in the league in rushing attempts against.

 

Ironically, they also finished 28th in time of possession, despite being 2nd in rushing yardage. This is beyond belief. The reasons for this (imo) are as follows:

1) Rookie OC who was not at all flexible.

2) Rookie QB with big problems.

3) Horrible LG.

4) This mess was overseen by a rookie head coach who looked lost, and was terrible at managing the clock, especially before the half. I mean Rich Kotite bad.

 

It is amazing that the Petine defense put up those numbers. They were weary from being on the field too long, and suffered injuries in the secondary. Players such as Hughes, A. Williams and McKelvin had zero history of making game changing plays yet they all thrived in the Petine system.

So I agree, Schwartz really needs to keep this system in place. And all of the above problems need mending. They were "hurrying up" to do things they lacked the ability to do. And much of the blame rests upon the shoulders of the head coach imo. I REALLY want Marrone to excel. He is from the Bronx, and once said that if he didn't work in football he would have wanted to be a state trooper. How does one not like a guy like this?

But sadly, I get the feeling that he is in way over his head.

Am I wrong?

[QB Bills]

 

 

Ironically, they also finished 28th in time of possession, despite being 2nd in rushing yardage. This is beyond belief. The reasons for this (imo) are as follows:

1) Rookie OC who was not at all flexible.

2) Rookie QB with big problems.

3) Horrible LG.

4) This mess was overseen by a rookie head coach who looked lost, and was terrible at managing the clock, especially before the half. I mean Rich Kotite bad.

 

It is amazing that the Petine defense put up those numbers. They were weary from being on the field too long, and suffered injuries in the secondary. Players such as Hughes, A. Williams and McKelvin had zero history of making game changing plays yet they all thrived in the Petine system.

So I agree, Schwartz really needs to keep this system in place. And all of the above problems need mending. They were "hurrying up" to do things they lacked the ability to do. And much of the blame rests upon the shoulders of the head coach imo. I REALLY want Marrone to excel. He is from the Bronx, and once said that if he didn't work in football he would have wanted to be a state trooper. How does one not like a guy like this?

But sadly, I get the feeling that he is in way over his head.

Am I wrong?

Unfortunately, I think you're spot on. Ever since that first mind-boggling challenge in the opener, he's done nothing to show that he's sharp enough to compete with the big boys. I know interviews and press conferences don't tell the whole story, but compare him to even pettine and there's a stark difference. Marrone isn't shy with the media yet comes across as a complete meathead. Pettine seems a lot more intelligent and football-savvy.

 

We finally have some talent on the team and we still can't do better than 6 wins. I'm thinking after another year or two, Marrone will have proved himself to be even worse than his predecessors.

 

I hope I'm wrong too.

[blzrul]

He's a dirty player - more the Seahawks speed.

[dubs]

Our defense was better than in recent years past,but still not that good. We gave up the most points in the AFC East last year but scored the second most (behind NE).

[Mr. WEO]

Pete Carroll as a defensive mind has proven himself FAR superior to genius Jim Schwartz......and Seattle had the extraordinary personnel to make their style work(with a little pharmaceutical assistance, IMO). Carroll's is NOT the same scheme Schwartz runs, which is important because I think his wide-nine is garbage and an awful fit for the Bills key player, Mario Williams. The Bills had average personnel on D to start the season last year but Pettine got extraordinary results out of a number of players who were not very good in the past. The only time Schwartz had success on D was in Tennessee when his D was loaded with talent. That was very brief. His tenure there was a study in mediocrity on D. He was a big step down from Gregg Williams. He has proven himself over time to not be a + coach, he is JAG. You get no synergy with him running things, at best he is only as good as his personnel matchups and that is not good enough. Contrast his work with the mix and match jobs that Rex and Pettine did in NY right thru this season..... and especially when Rex first took over an aging modestly talented D and took it to two AFC championships. The only hope I have for Schwartz is that he is going to CHANGE from what he has done in the past. SIGNIFICANTLY. Because IMO his defense in Detroit was a joke and his D in Tennessee was a failure.

 

Great post right here.

Ironically, they also finished 28th in time of possession, despite being 2nd in rushing yardage. This is beyond belief. The reasons for this (imo) are as follows:

1) Rookie OC who was not at all flexible.

2) Rookie QB with big problems.

3) Horrible LG.

4) This mess was overseen by a rookie head coach who looked lost, and was terrible at managing the clock, especially before the half. I mean Rich Kotite bad.

 

It is amazing that the Petine defense put up those numbers. They were weary from being on the field too long, and suffered injuries in the secondary. Players such as Hughes, A. Williams and McKelvin had zero history of making game changing plays yet they all thrived in the Petine system.

So I agree, Schwartz really needs to keep this system in place. And all of the above problems need mending. They were "hurrying up" to do things they lacked the ability to do. And much of the blame rests upon the shoulders of the head coach imo. I REALLY want Marrone to excel. He is from the Bronx, and once said that if he didn't work in football he would have wanted to be a state trooper. How does one not like a guy like this?

But sadly, I get the feeling that he is in way over his head.

Am I wrong?

 

No. Completely correct.

[BADOLBILZ]

Ironically, they also finished 28th in time of possession, despite being 2nd in rushing yardage. This is beyond belief. The reasons for this (imo) are as follows:

1) Rookie OC who was not at all flexible.

2) Rookie QB with big problems.

3) Horrible LG.

4) This mess was overseen by a rookie head coach who looked lost, and was terrible at managing the clock, especially before the half. I mean Rich Kotite bad.

 

It is amazing that the Petine defense put up those numbers. They were weary from being on the field too long, and suffered injuries in the secondary. Players such as Hughes, A. Williams and McKelvin had zero history of making game changing plays yet they all thrived in the Petine system.

So I agree, Schwartz really needs to keep this system in place. And all of the above problems need mending. They were "hurrying up" to do things they lacked the ability to do. And much of the blame rests upon the shoulders of the head coach imo. I REALLY want Marrone to excel. He is from the Bronx, and once said that if he didn't work in football he would have wanted to be a state trooper. How does one not like a guy like this?

But sadly, I get the feeling that he is in way over his head.

Am I wrong?

 

The Bills season really breaks down into two parts.......before the painful home loss to the Chiefs and after.

 

The team began giving variable effort after that loss.

 

Prior to and thru that loss, most of their run defense issues were due to being over-exposed because of that struggling no-huddle offense.

 

After that Chiefs loss they clearly decided they were out of the hunt and then they just stopped giving a full effort. At that point the numbers jumped considerably. The Pittsburgh and Tampa games were rollovers worthy of the Gailey era. They had one foot on the bus during that season ender in NE.

 

As Bills fans....we have seen this many times. That's not a scheme issue or a Pettine issue......it is an organizational dysfunction/losing culture issue.

 

Corey Graham said it when he signed.....winning is about getting everybody on the same page believing that they can win and focusing their efforts.

 

Personally, I didn't like the no-huddle running attack but I believe the objective was to advance the development of their offense so that in year two they weren't learning how to play with tempo. That took it's toll on the D.

 

There is no reason that the Rex Ryan D can't be contoured to stop the run. The Ravens and Jets have done it. Changing D schemes yet again is ridiculous. K-9 is already using it as an excuse for poor defensive play early next season.

As for Marrone......his first season was unimpressive. Clock issues, ridiculous use of challenges, he definitely struggled. I wouldn't be surprised if things went wrong and Marrone got fired after next season.

[YoloinOhio]

Unfortunately, I think you're spot on. Ever since that first mind-boggling challenge in the opener, he's done nothing to show that he's sharp enough to compete with the big boys. I know interviews and press conferences don't tell the whole story, but compare him to even pettine and there's a stark difference. Marrone isn't shy with the media yet comes across as a complete meathead. Pettine seems a lot more intelligent and football-savvy.

 

We finally have some talent on the team and we still can't do better than 6 wins. I'm thinking after another year or two, Marrone will have proved himself to be even worse than his predecessors.

 

I hope I'm wrong too.

Too funny. I am not sure if you are being sarcastic or not. All the Browns fans are whining that Pettine comes across like an in-over-his-head jock with the media. Must be some kind of reverse-bias homer thing.

[The Big Cat]

I seem to recall 3rd and anything over 10 yards for our defense was almost an automatic first down for the opposing team.

 

on 3 and 11+ they were successful 79.3% of the time

 

http://goo.gl/GNc0Rr

 

But, you know.

 

by "they" i mean the Bills defense