1B4IDie Posted March 14, 2014 Author Posted March 14, 2014 (edited) we were 6-10 last year. and the year before. and the year before. The question is- are the Bills better then they were at this point last year? We are losing Byrd, Moats, Carrington. We gained Graham, Williams, Rivers. Have we made moves to go beyond 6 moves? And no **** there is still a draft. Thats not the question Besides almost ending Favre's career Moats really hasn't made on an impact on Defense or Special teams. He is Just a Guy. Carrington was out all of 2013 so if the comparison is year over year then he is a wash too. Byrd is a 3 time Pro Bowl Free Safety that had 22 interceptions over 4 years. Chris Williams and Rivers are former first round picks that haven't lived up to their draft status. Good news is the Bills didn't draft and are not paying them a lot of money. They should be able to contribute in 2013. If not then you didn't risk much. Graham is more than a special teamer. He made huge defensive plays in the Ravens Super Bowl win and playoff run. Given that teams spend most of their time in a Dime/Nickle Graham should have an immediate impact taking at worst Justin Rogers place in dime or Robey's place in Nickel. (Hopefully the 'Fins play Justin Rogers a lot!) Again Chandler and Carpenter are not in the equation either since you are comparing Year over year. So is Byrd > Chris Williams, Rivers, and Graham. Hell yeah Byrd is better than all three. Will Byrd's loss be substantial? Well to your point we have been 6-10 with a 3 time pro bowl safety that had 22 Interceptions. Will the Bills be 5-11 without him? Doubtful. Did picking Derek Anderson, Mark Sanchez, Jake Delhomme, Matt Schaub, Vince Young, Matt Cassel, Mark Brunell (NYJ), John Beck(Was), Tim Tebow, Kevin Kolb, John Skelton, Ryan Tannehill, Chad Henne, Ben Roethlisberger, Geno Smith, Mike Glennon clutch victory from the hands of defeat? Possibly. Can any pedestrian Free Safety create interception from QBs like the list above? Sure, maybe not 22 but they'll be some picks. So did the Bills Net out worse? Sure. Is it so bad that people should piss, moan, and cry endlessly? No, its not that bad imo. Did they pickup players that can help in 2014? I think they did. What Bills fans clearly cannot do is look at this Free Agent class for what it is and look forward. Instead we need to drag this free agent class into a discussion of how the Bills have missed the playoffs for the last 15 years. Edited March 14, 2014 by Why So Serious?
thewildrabbit Posted March 14, 2014 Posted March 14, 2014 The O-Line is 5 players but really have to play as one... Colin Brown really made the guy to his left and the guy to his right look bad so I wouldn't say Glenn regressed at all... He looked good to me. We just need to fix the LG position and like I said, I know nothing of this new guy but if I were a betting man, I'd say he isn't worse than Colin Brown. Obviously I think we still draft a LG either in the 2nd or 3rd round. Defense looks good especially if we do somehow land Spikes. I say we draft heavy on offense n maybe draft 3 defensive players at most. Nobody could be worse then Colin Brown, as he graded as the very worst player in the NFL last year. Colin Brown made himself look bad (-30.1) after 6 games, and if anything it allowed Glenn to look better because opposing teams knew where the weak link was in that line, and exploited it. Glenn probably saw less heat as teams would focus on Brown, and then Legursky when he took over for Brown in week 7, JMO. But yea, like I said, Glenn didn't regress. You make a good point should the Bills choose to draft a OG, and a OT early for depth, as all positions need time to develop. Those players could also help greatly with special teams. Should the Bills do this to add proper depth for that line, it could change everything. Just very highly doubtful that the Bills change their ways by doing that though.
birdog1960 Posted March 14, 2014 Posted March 14, 2014 So did the Bills Net out worse? Sure. then how does this equate to "doing an excellent job in Free Agency? would netting equal talent be an excellent job? would a net gain of talent be a super excellent job? it's clear that even you don't really believe this.
1B4IDie Posted March 14, 2014 Author Posted March 14, 2014 then how does this equate to "doing an excellent job in Free Agency? would netting equal talent be an excellent job? would a net gain of talent be a super excellent job? it's clear that even you don't really believe this. This is a big boy thought try not to get hurt: The Bills can do an excellent job signing free agents that will help them out in 2014 AND they can net out worse because they lost Byrd. Not to mention Free Agency IS NOT OVER. If they add Wilfork and Spikes they may even net out positive.
bobobonators Posted March 14, 2014 Posted March 14, 2014 So EJ Manuel's play this season hinges on the play of Chris Williams? Got it. Thanks for the insight. And the entire OL will now suffer as a result of Chris Williams being on the team. Very good. I was thinking it had something more to do with being healthy, the continued evolution of learning the hardest position in all of pro sports, his young core of WRs taking a positive leap forward, the fact Colin Brown or Doug Legursky aren't at LG etc. etc. Yes, an entire OL will suffer if there is one really bad OL. The chris williams signing was one of the worst signings in a while. Talk about overpaying for GARBAGE.
Prickly Pete Posted March 14, 2014 Posted March 14, 2014 Will Byrd's loss be substantial? Well to your point we have been 6-10 with a 3 time pro bowl safety that had 22 Interceptions. Will the Bills be 5-11 without him? Doubtful. Did picking Derek Anderson, Mark Sanchez, Jake Delhomme, Matt Schaub, Vince Young, Matt Cassel, Mark Brunell (NYJ), John Beck(Was), Tim Tebow, Kevin Kolb, John Skelton, Ryan Tannehill, Chad Henne, Ben Roethlisberger, Geno Smith, Mike Glennon clutch victory from the hands of defeat? Possibly. Can any pedestrian Free Safety create interception from QBs like the list above? Sure, maybe not 22 but they'll be some picks. So did the Bills Net out worse? Sure. Is it so bad that people should piss, moan, and cry endlessly? No, its not that bad imo. Did they pickup players that can help in 2014? I think they did. What Bills fans clearly cannot do is look at this Free Agent class for what it is and look forward. Instead we need to drag this free agent class into a discussion of how the Bills have missed the playoffs for the last 15 years. I like this post,
Paulmac Posted March 15, 2014 Posted March 15, 2014 Thurman#1 You made some great points on Byrd not signing..perhaps I'm incorrect in my contention that Byrd wanted out and that 9 mil a year would have kept him here..hopefully when the dust settles we will know why he really didn't stay with the Bills..all I can say at this point is I like the vibe of the front office in being assertive in picking spots to grab FAs who will fit into what we have already....if Spikes signs on the dotted line we have another player who can play.
Hazed and Amuzed Posted March 15, 2014 Posted March 15, 2014 Besides almost ending Favre's career Moats really hasn't made on an impact on Defense or Special teams. He is Just a Guy. Carrington was out all of 2013 so if the comparison is year over year then he is a wash too. Byrd is a 3 time Pro Bowl Free Safety that had 22 interceptions over 4 years. Chris Williams and Rivers are former first round picks that haven't lived up to their draft status. Good news is the Bills didn't draft and are not paying them a lot of money. They should be able to contribute in 2013. If not then you didn't risk much. Graham is more than a special teamer. He made huge defensive plays in the Ravens Super Bowl win and playoff run. Given that teams spend most of their time in a Dime/Nickle Graham should have an immediate impact taking at worst Justin Rogers place in dime or Robey's place in Nickel. (Hopefully the 'Fins play Justin Rogers a lot!) Again Chandler and Carpenter are not in the equation either since you are comparing Year over year. So is Byrd > Chris Williams, Rivers, and Graham. Hell yeah Byrd is better than all three. Will Byrd's loss be substantial? Well to your point we have been 6-10 with a 3 time pro bowl safety that had 22 Interceptions. Will the Bills be 5-11 without him? Doubtful. Did picking Derek Anderson, Mark Sanchez, Jake Delhomme, Matt Schaub, Vince Young, Matt Cassel, Mark Brunell (NYJ), John Beck(Was), Tim Tebow, Kevin Kolb, John Skelton, Ryan Tannehill, Chad Henne, Ben Roethlisberger, Geno Smith, Mike Glennon clutch victory from the hands of defeat? Possibly. Can any pedestrian Free Safety create interception from QBs like the list above? Sure, maybe not 22 but they'll be some picks. So did the Bills Net out worse? Sure. Is it so bad that people should piss, moan, and cry endlessly? No, its not that bad imo. Did they pickup players that can help in 2014? I think they did. What Bills fans clearly cannot do is look at this Free Agent class for what it is and look forward. Instead we need to drag this free agent class into a discussion of how the Bills have missed the playoffs for the last 15 years. Very intelligent and rational post.
beerme1 Posted March 15, 2014 Posted March 15, 2014 Yes, an entire OL will suffer if there is one really bad OL. The chris williams signing was one of the worst signings in a while. Talk about overpaying for GARBAGE. Greg Gabriel was on the radio tonight talking this guy up in a big way. I'm not sure who to trust more though right now. You or him? He gave an example of a Bears Eagles game where the guy owned some big time guy on the Eagles. And a couple other examples. Of course he would favor the guy though but at least he gave some specifics. Whadda you got?
thewildrabbit Posted March 15, 2014 Posted March 15, 2014 Yes, an entire OL will suffer if there is one really bad O Line player. ** The chris williams signing was one of the worst signings in a while. Talk about overpaying for GARBAGE. Most fans don't want to believe this fact. 100 million dollar DE, and still 6-10. yet the Bills dumpster dive others teams worst players garbage. This Williams signing was 1000 times worse then Legursky because he was regulated as a backup, a bad back up...but still an emergency backup. 5.5 million guaranteed says Williams is the starter at LG
1B4IDie Posted March 15, 2014 Author Posted March 15, 2014 (edited) Most fans don't want to believe this fact. 100 million dollar DE, and still 6-10. yet the Bills dumpster dive others teams worst players garbage. This Williams signing was 1000 times worse then Legursky because he was regulated as a backup, a bad back up...but still an emergency backup. 5.5 million guaranteed says Williams is the starter at LG Why do you waste your time on this board and this team? Btw Your numbers are wrong. The real numbers do not guarantee anything beside a chance to start at LG. And even if your numbers were correct how does ~1.4 mil a year over 4 years in guarantees "say Williams is the starter?" Edited March 15, 2014 by Why So Serious?
papazoid Posted March 15, 2014 Posted March 15, 2014 in order of my liking: LB spikes K carpenter CB corey graham TE scott chandler RB Anthony dixon LG chris Williams LB keith rivers
beerme1 Posted March 15, 2014 Posted March 15, 2014 I'm sick of our history as much as anyone else. Season ticket holder experience etc etc etc But as tired as I am of the losing, I am with Why So Serious. I'm tired of our fans crapping on our team. Ok we need to see change. WE ARE! You don't like Brandon and I get that. But I do. You may not think the FA moves are a big deal, well maybe now you do! But it is a huge dynamic change and that is on Brandon and Whaley. Started with Buddy, Brandon and Whaley getting Mario and agree or not doesn't matter they DID it! Marrone, agree or not doesn't matter they DID it. Please give these guys credit where it's due they are trying to change the way it works here. Spikes is a symbol; to me. I don't like him. That really doesn't matter. I didn't like Marshawn either. Or many other Bills for that matter. In the end what matters here is making the playoffs. We have people in place that are staking their careers on us doing just that. Thanks Russ, Dougies, and Buddy for getting it stared. I think if Whaley has as good a draft as we had last year we are in. So to recap, if you're a hater, fine I'm on kool aid or wearing rose colored glasses and so on, but I'm looking up and am willing to give Whaley/Brandon/Marrone their fair chance. Especially considering the recent past! I like the direction were going and look forward to the draft even if we don't draft my guy Ebron, I am trusting these guys doing their jobs. They all feel the pressure of that I am sure and it helps me to know that guys like Whaley who left the Steelers organization, had damn well better get it right or their careers are over. I love that and I respect that. Of course Whitey came here and tried. He tried by putting lipstick on a pig. We are building a foundation I think right now under Whaley. Kudos Doug! Oh a flame o should you feel the need to. I have my glasses on!
Thurmal34 Posted March 15, 2014 Posted March 15, 2014 Not too shabby so far. Feels similar to Theo's (but not quite as robust) moves pre 2003.
billsfan89 Posted March 15, 2014 Posted March 15, 2014 Spikes and Graham are really nice free agents that fill key defensive needs. Rivers isn't the best addition but he at worst adds some decent depth. Williams was underwhelming considering they will be shifting him into a starting role and they paid a decent price for him. And if Dixon signs that's a nice signing too. I also like them bringing back Chandler Overall despite the Williams misstep its been a decent off-season. They still have some work to do but its a nice start. Safety would be a nice area to find a player in. I like what they are doing its not perfect but they are signing the types of players they need to.
BADOLBILZ Posted March 15, 2014 Posted March 15, 2014 I'm sick of our history as much as anyone else. Season ticket holder experience etc etc etc But as tired as I am of the losing, I am with Why So Serious. I'm tired of our fans crapping on our team. Ok we need to see change. WE ARE! You don't like Brandon and I get that. But I do. You may not think the FA moves are a big deal, well maybe now you do! But it is a huge dynamic change and that is on Brandon and Whaley. Started with Buddy, Brandon and Whaley getting Mario and agree or not doesn't matter they DID it! Marrone, agree or not doesn't matter they DID it. Please give these guys credit where it's due they are trying to change the way it works here. Spikes is a symbol; to me. I don't like him. That really doesn't matter. I didn't like Marshawn either. Or many other Bills for that matter. In the end what matters here is making the playoffs. We have people in place that are staking their careers on us doing just that. Thanks Russ, Dougies, and Buddy for getting it stared. I think if Whaley has as good a draft as we had last year we are in. So to recap, if you're a hater, fine I'm on kool aid or wearing rose colored glasses and so on, but I'm looking up and am willing to give Whaley/Brandon/Marrone their fair chance. Especially considering the recent past! I like the direction were going and look forward to the draft even if we don't draft my guy Ebron, I am trusting these guys doing their jobs. They all feel the pressure of that I am sure and it helps me to know that guys like Whaley who left the Steelers organization, had damn well better get it right or their careers are over. I love that and I respect that. Of course Whitey came here and tried. He tried by putting lipstick on a pig. We are building a foundation I think right now under Whaley. Kudos Doug! Oh a flame o should you feel the need to. I have my glasses on! What alcoholic beverage helped you formulate that pep rally?
bowery4 Posted March 15, 2014 Posted March 15, 2014 Yes, an entire OL will suffer if there is one really bad OL. The chris williams signing was one of the worst signings in a while. Talk about overpaying for GARBAGE. Most fans don't want to believe this fact. 100 million dollar DE, and still 6-10. yet the Bills dumpster dive others teams worst players garbage. This Williams signing was 1000 times worse then Legursky because he was regulated as a backup, a bad back up...but still an emergency backup. 5.5 million guaranteed says Williams is the starter at LG I would love it if you 2 are proven wrong! It is not bad to sign high picks for your oline, didn't sf do this? What alcoholic beverage helped you formulate that pep rally? my guess is teaqila )
thewildrabbit Posted March 15, 2014 Posted March 15, 2014 Why do you waste your time on this board and this team? Btw Your numbers are wrong. The real numbers do not guarantee anything beside a chance to start at LG. And even if your numbers were correct how does ~1.4 mil a year over 4 years in guarantees "say Williams is the starter?" I've recently starting to ask myself that exact question. I've been hoping the Bills would eventually build an O line like they had in the Jim Kelly days. They recently started to get there with Glenn, Wood, Levitre, and then let Levitre walk, and tried to replace him with players they outright cut after 6 regular season starts. So, it is every disheartening for me to see this team sign someone who graded as poorly as Williams. I'm hoping he plays better then his very poor PFF grade, as Legursky didn't. The Bills shelled out $13.5 million for Williams - $5.5 million guaranteed - which almost certainly means that he's the team's new starting left guard. http://www.buffalorumblings.com/buffalo-bills-news/2014/3/12/5500396/nfl-free-agency-2014-chris-williams-signs-buffalo-bills
1B4IDie Posted March 15, 2014 Author Posted March 15, 2014 I've recently starting to ask myself that exact question. I've been hoping the Bills would eventually build an O line like they had in the Jim Kelly days. They recently started to get there with Glenn, Wood, Levitre, and then let Levitre walk, and tried to replace him with players they outright cut after 6 regular season starts. So, it is every disheartening for me to see this team sign someone who graded as poorly as Williams. I'm hoping he plays better then his very poor PFF grade, as Legursky didn't. The Bills shelled out $13.5 million for Williams - $5.5 million guaranteed - which almost certainly means that he's the team's new starting left guard. http://www.buffalorumblings.com/buffalo-bills-news/2014/3/12/5500396/nfl-free-agency-2014-chris-williams-signs-buffalo-bills Yeah I read that too that doesn't mean it's accurate or the bloggers opinion is correct. http://espn.go.com/blog/buffalo-bills/post/_/id/8050/breaking-down-chris-williams-contract Only 3.5 mil is guaranteed but you have to assume he will play all of 2014. With a base salary if 1.5 million. Again not really compelling numbers that force the Bills to start him. Worst case he is a swing man for depth at has the contract that goes along with a depth player. Thank you! then how does this equate to "doing an excellent job in Free Agency? would netting equal talent be an excellent job? would a net gain of talent be a super excellent job? it's clear that even you don't really believe this. Oh I Billieve. The question is now do you Billieve me? I don't think we'll hear "43 is the Mike" out of Brady's mouth in 2014!
beerfriday Posted March 15, 2014 Posted March 15, 2014 It just gets really hard as a fan to hold any faith in this franchise after 15 years of no playoffs... Wash. Rinse. Repeat. When will it ever change ? I used to be like you. A Homer. Step outside of the box and look at the big picture. Until the bills win dont keep falling for the same Bull***** If this is how you feel, why bother coming onto the board until the Bills win? By being on here I can only assume you have some of the same hope as the poster you ridicule. If not, why waste your time on here until they win; just jump back on the bandwagon at that point.
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